The Eye of the Beholder Thread

[Sceptic]

Btw, I finished Disciples of Steel.

that's one I never finished. Ran out of patience eventually. Well done.

M&M1 soon will be next. I even found papers with Sorpigal map!

Pff, draw your own
Or are these papers some of your own old maps?

 

[Fowyr]

Yup, my own.

 

[Calem Ravenna]

That's strange, in the dozens of dungeons I've played I've never seen this. Are you sure you didn't miss a secret button? some are quite cleverly hidden. The random generator is usually quite good - there is always a way forward (barring the bug I mentioned earlier).

Yes, I've seen some of the "graphic sets" of dungeons have secret buttons that are very difficult to notice. Those first dungeons generated had rather clean walls and they were all pretty small, I'm pretty sure I clicked and bumped into all of them (walls). Except on the fourth one, I just ragequit.

Didn't run into any problems of that kind on the lower levels (now on 10). Secret buttons and illusionary walls are pretty scarce and they're both quite easy to figure out from the dungeon map.

That shouldn't happen. The "boss" (if there is one) is always spawned within a specific radius around the stairs down. It may be far from the exit in terms of walking around the corridors, but "through the walls" it should be very close to the stairs.

Well, that makes sense. It seems they also wander around like other monsters, so without locked doors in the way they can end up a distance from the stairs down. On levels 6, 7 and 9 bosses were locked in small corridors with the exit on one end.

That's pretty much par for the course. No matter the size of the dungeon, level 4 is when things start to get nasty. BTW there is an option to turn undead off in the dungeon settings; I rarely use it, but if undead get on your nerves it's a good option. Negative Plane Protection is also a must when dealing with undead to avoid level/stat drain.

Yeah, the stat drain (strength at least, didn't suffer any other stat decreases yet) seems pretty severe. I was fortunate enough to find a set of strength gauntlets early on and they set strength to a fixed amount, but when I take them off, I have only 6 strength. Didn't run into level draining undead yet.

I so hated these invisible monsters. Also on your journey through the game you may find special set of items for your class.

I found parchments describing some of those sets, but have yet to find anything. Or maybe I did, but I can't identify them. Didn't find any scrolls of identification.

I also never encountered any major bugs in DH, but the game was extremely boring. Better play any "standard" roguelike.

Let's just say that I'm trying out something different for a change

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Yeah, the stat drain (strength at least, didn't suffer any other stat decreases yet) seems pretty severe. I was fortunate enough to find a set of strength gauntlets early on and they set strength to a fixed amount, but when I take them off, I have only 6 strength. Didn't run into level draining undead yet.

I may be confusing this with the draining in EOB3, but stat draining was supposed to be temporary, right? Or did they "fix" that for Dungeon Hack?

I so hated these invisible monsters. Also on your journey through the game you may find special set of items for your class.

I found parchments describing some of those sets, but have yet to find anything. Or maybe I did, but I can't identify them. Didn't find any scrolls of identification.

A few times that I played I found one of the set items mentioned. One. And never for the class I was currently playing. How people are finding the whole set in one playthrough is a complete mystery to me.

As for identification problems, an item called the "Scrying Glass" acts a multi-use, class-free method of identifying objects.

 

[Calem Ravenna]

I may be confusing this with the draining in EOB3, but stat draining was supposed to be temporary, right? Or did they "fix" that for Dungeon Hack?

I didn't pay much attention to it because of the gauntlets, but it appears to return to normal after a full rest.

 

[Fowyr]

A few times that I played I found one of the set items mentioned. One. And never for the class I was currently playing. How people are finding the whole set in one playthrough is a complete mystery to me.

I have whole set when played as pure mage and 5-6 items when used multi-classes.

 

[octavius]

1991, or should I say 1SSI, was a good year for CRPGs. The Gold Box games reached its peak and SSI also released Shadow Sorceror as well as Eye of the Beholder 1 and 2, which were my favourite Dungeon Master clones.
I did get tired of real time blobbers midway through EOB2, though, when combat felt too much like cheating with its sidestepping technique to avoid monster attacks and basilisk stares. Even Black Crypt couldn't revive my enthusiasm for real time blobbers, but last year I really enjoyed Chaos Strikes Back, so I've decided to replay EOB1 and hopefully finish EOB2 later.

When reading the manual I realised that the rules are more like those of Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, and Icewind Dale, than of the Gold Box games.
Unless I'm mistaken this is the editions the games were based on:
Gold Box games: 1st Edition. Pool of Radiance had slightly different rules and felt more like regular D&D, though.
Eye of the Beholder games: 2nd Edtition.
BG 1+2 and IWD: 2nd Edition, but the Weapon Proficiencies and Feats were 3rd Edition rules.
IWD2: 3rd Edition

This means the level caps for non-humans are not as silly as in the Gold Box games, and there is no longer a need to go to a Training Hall if you want to level.
OTOH there seems to be no use of Intelligence for mages any more. In 1st Edition you needed 18 Int to cast lvl 9 spells, while in 3nd Edition Int is a dump stat like Charisma. Seems like a very weird design choice to me.
And the EOB games seems not to have implemented Dual Classing. At least I could find no mention of it in the manual.

There are fan made Amiga versions of EOB1 and EOB2 that uses 256 colours (same as VGA, but with higher res, if I understood correctly) and automap. But they require WHDLoad and this made me remember why I don't really miss the Amiga that much: instructions for Amiga "mods" are always as high tech and user unfriendly as possible. It's like the authors assume only other computer engineers will use their programs.
I managed to install WHDLoad from Workbench 3 using Amiga Forever, but that was as far as I got before I got a splitting headache.

If anyone has succeeded in installing and playing these Amiga versions of EOB I'd be grateful for detailed instructions for dummies on how to install them using Workbench 3 and Amiga Forever.

 

[Kersey]

If anyone has succeeded in installing and playing these Amiga versions of EOB I'd be grateful for detailed instructions for dummies on how to install them using Workbench 3 and Amiga Forever.

I just got the packages from http://hobring.esero.net/games.htm and had a blast with them last month. Pretty much no configuration necessary, but some tweaking with display modes did enhance the experience for me. And I loved these versions, especially for the first one. Not only is the automap feature glorious, the graphics seem exactly as in the DOS version, the audio is far superior to the DOS version and it includes the satisfying endgame cinematic that was cut from the DOS version.

But that's all for the first game. The second one does benefit greatly from the automap but it's more of a matter of opinion on that one if the Amiga version had superior sound to begin with, and the ending wasn't cut from the DOS version on that one either. Still, I prefer this version if only for the automap.

I also found that there's an unofficial/unreleased patch for the third one that actually makes it functional in DOSBox (no automap, though). I played around with a bit and it does work wonders, though I haven't got around to giving the game a serious go yet.

 

[Revenant]

BG 1+2 and IWD: 2nd Edition, but the Weapon Proficiencies and Feats were 3rd Edition rules.

Weapon proficiencies are 2nd Ed. rules, although optional. In the 3rd Ed. they were only thrown in the feats category.

This means the level caps for non-humans are not as silly as in the Gold Box games, and there is no longer a need to go to a Training Hall if you want to level.

If you are talking about the Infinity Engine games, they seem to throw away the level cap altogether, which isn't really permitted by 2nd Ed. rules. Being precise, in the Dungeon Master Guide it is noted that it is up to DM to ignore the level cap if he really wants so.

OTOH there seems to be no use of Intelligence for mages any more. In 1st Edition you needed 18 Int to cast lvl 9 spells, while in 3nd Edition Int is a dump stat like Charisma. Seems like a very weird design choice to me.

Intelligence determines character's chance to learn spell in the 2nd Ed., so it's not that much of a dump stat as one might think (unless you abuse reload).

 

[sigma1932]

OTOH there seems to be no use of Intelligence for mages any more. In 1st Edition you needed 18 Int to cast lvl 9 spells, while in 3nd Edition Int is a dump stat like Charisma. Seems like a very weird design choice to me.

In PnP, INT in 2E determines:
--Maximum spell level allowed (similar to 1st Edition)
--Chance to learn the spell
--Number of spells per spell level you're capable of learning
--Number of Languages known or bonus non-weapon proficiency slots they get (Non-weapon proficiencies being the equivalent of skills from 3E)
--in the case of very high INT scores (19+), you gained immunity to illusion spells of increasing spell level.

...not really a dump stat at all except in video games because some of stuff just wasn't put in.

 

[CorpseZeb]

If you compare pictures from EOB ECS to EOB AGA (or PC VGA) you won't see much difference. Only automaping is a "new" feature, but better part of fun of two first EOB was a hand-and-papper mapping activity (thanks to not so big dungeons overall). So why bother with the "better" version, at all?

 

[Revenant]

The lack of automap and difficult to navigate dungeons were the "features" that made me abandon EoB quite quickly. Especially when I learned that the entire game was just 18 or so dungeon levels with no towns or overland exploration. Why would I want to play this, when I can play Diablo

 

[CorpseZeb]

Taste of matter, of course. I always liked to "map", somehow. Plus, EOB dungeons were relative easy and simple to map, comparing to say - Dm: Chaos Strickes Back or Black Crypt or Crystal Dragon - or especially - Abandoned Places.

 

[LeStryfe79]

Obsidian should do EotB reboot kickstarter. Who's with me?

Also, I though Int determined max spell level all the way through 3ed.

Just checked my 3.5 handbook, and Int/Wis/Cha requirements still exist. Abitlity score -10 = Max spell level. Lol, dump stat.

 

[Revenant]

There is no need for an EoB remake, as it was popamole before it was cool.

 

[octavius]

If anyone has succeeded in installing and playing these Amiga versions of EOB I'd be grateful for detailed instructions for dummies on how to install them using Workbench 3 and Amiga Forever.

I just got the packages from http://hobring.esero.net/games.htm and had a blast with them last month. Pretty much no configuration necessary, but some tweaking with display modes did enhance the experience for me.

That's right. Rub it in to the dummy...

If you compare pictures from EOB ECS to EOB AGA (or PC VGA) you won't see much difference. Only automaping is a "new" feature, but better part of fun of two first EOB was a hand-and-papper mapping activity (thanks to not so big dungeons overall). So why bother with the "better" version, at all?

Sounds is better on the Amiga.
With this mod the graphics are as good as the DOS VGA version.
I read somewhere else that that the DOS version lacks "flavour text". Anyone know if this is really correct?
It also lacks the ending scene, but that can always be seen on YouTube after you win.
And the automap would be sweet. I enjoyed mapping Chaos Strikes Back, since it was part of the challenge, but it's more tedious to map in more straightforward games like Dungeon Master and EoB.

There is no need for an EoB remake, as it was popamole before it was cool.

I'm actually tempted to try the turn based console version that Jaesun played some months ago. The real time combat is quite much better in DM and CSB, I think, since there were more tactical options in the form of traps and doors, different ways to swing a weapon, and you could spam more spells without having to rest all the time. And they weren't able to implement backstabbing in EOB.

Has anyone tried playing EOB without using hit and sidestep tactics, but instead stand your ground in battles?

 

[Jaesun]

I'm actually tempted to try the turn based console version that Jaesun played some months ago.

I never played that console version. I actually made a turn based version 100% faithful to EOtB (map, traps, floor switches wise) in Dungeon Craft. I only created the 1st level and it was more of a curiosity. As in what would it be like if the game was pure turn based, but retained the same "view-port like" view. The Adventure like game mechanics (like throwing rocks) are where I stopped on this project as I wasn't sure how to proceed with that in the DC engine.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

This means the level caps for non-humans are not as silly as in the Gold Box games, and there is no longer a need to go to a Training Hall if you want to level.

There are NO level restrictions in EOB1 or EOB2 based on 2nd Edition rules. EOB3 has them, though. The level cap in EOB1 is Level 11 for all classes and races except Cleric, which is 10 for some reason. In EOB2 it's Level 13 for all classes and races.

OTOH there seems to be no use of Intelligence for mages any more. In 1st Edition you needed 18 Int to cast lvl 9 spells, while in 3nd Edition Int is a dump stat like Charisma. Seems like a very weird design choice to me.
And the EOB games seems not to have implemented Dual Classing. At least I could find no mention of it in the manual.

Correct on both counts. Dual-classing is not available in any of the EOB games, and Intelligence (and Charisma) serve NO purpose whatsoever in any of the EOB games. Wisdom is only useful for Clerics for the bonus Cleric spells with a high Wisdom stat.

 

[LeStryfe79]

popamole blobber with quality custimization and puzzles is win, trust me.

 

[octavius]

If anyone has succeeded in installing and playing these Amiga versions of EOB I'd be grateful for detailed instructions for dummies on how to install them using Workbench 3 and Amiga Forever.

I just got the packages from http://hobring.esero.net/games.htm and had a blast with them last month. Pretty much no configuration necessary, but some tweaking with display modes did enhance the experience for me.

After a good night's sleep and an aspirin I tried this, and despite instructions looking potato to me it actually worked!
Thanks!

BTW, any suggestions on tweaking?
I assume it's the info.ini file that needs to be edited? Mine looks like this:

[info]
fullname=Eye Of The Beholder AGA 1.09
hwb=1.00
slave=0.20
 
[special]
;cpu_speed=1536
;gfx_center_horizontal=none
;gfx_center_vertical=none
;keyboard=kbd1
;immediate_blits=false

 

[Kersey]

After a good night's sleep and an aspirin I tried this, and despite instructions looking potato to me it actually worked!

Happy to help, though I can't take the credit for myself. I came upon a recommendation for that place somewhere (might have been somewhere at the Codex...) but can't remember where/who it was. Everything over there works a treat despite looking suspiciously potato/something similar.

I edited the .UAE files located at "..\WinUAE\Configurations\Games", alternatively you can press F12 during emulation and edit the configuration with the GUI, and save over the existing .UAE file for the game in question. I didn't do much but I did change the graphics settings so that the program uses my laptop's native res on full screen and uses a proper-looking aspect ratio.

The important parts for this are like this on my setup:

gfx_width_windowed=640
gfx_height_windowed=480
gfx_width_fullscreen=1024
gfx_height_fullscreen=600
gfx_autoresolution=false
gfx_fullscreen_amiga=true
gfx_center_horizontal=smart
gfx_center_vertical=smart
gfx_colour_mode=32bit
gfx_api=directdraw
gfx_filter=null
gfx_filter_keep_aspect=vga
gfx_filter_autoscale=scale
gfx_filter_aspect_ratio=16:10

So yeah it's not much, and might even not be completely optimal, but it did make it things a little bit smoother for me.

 

[CorpseZeb]

(...) Has anyone tried playing EOB without using hit and sidestep tactics, but instead stand your ground in battles?

Romanticism doesn't pay... In the other words, not a chance. Some more powerful foes destroys you in the a second (say, Dragon...).

 

[Unkillable Cat]

(...) Has anyone tried playing EOB without using hit and sidestep tactics, but instead stand your ground in battles?

Romanticism doesn't pay... In the other words, not a chance. Some more powerful foes destroys you in the a second (say, Dragon...).

What he said. Somewhat.

In EOB1 you only have to hold your ground against the Giant Spiders to witness multiple TPK's. If you survive that, the Mind Flayers will most certainly finish you off.

In EOB2... where to begin? Frost Giants, dozens of Skeleton Warriors backed up by Hold Person-casting Clerics, Medusae, Beholders, it's quite a long list.

Don't even get me started on EOB3, where certain traps and puzzles force you to hold your ground.

EDIT: Typo.

 

[octavius]

I can't help it, but every real time blobber is an anti-climax after Chaos Strikes Back.
Even though I enjoyed EOB frst time I played it 20 years ago, now the combination of AD&D and real time blob just feels so wrong.

 

[CorpseZeb]

Well, for me, personally, EOB was not a quite "a real time". Technically they were of course, but when I was played it ages ago, there were more a... RTWtPtMM - (Real Time With the Pause to Made a Map). So, "real time" factor was rather diminished... uhm... mentally.

Ps. Now, after all those years, I don't know, I have a patience to play it in the same "proper a map" way. No one played the same game twice, as once said famous ancient olive seller...