Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Review The Escapist bitch-slaps The Witcher

Discussion in 'RPG Codex News & Content Comments' started by Calis, Nov 27, 2007.

  1. Elwro Arcane Patron

    Elwro
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    10,518
    Location:
    Krakow, Poland
    Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
    Click here and disable ads!
    Now that's drama. They banned BN.

    edit: I'm late as usual. Now it's the "it's all subjective" stance all over again.
    ^ Top  
  2. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2007
    Messages:
    26,115
    Location:
    Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
    There can be only one.
    ^ Top  
  3. Amasius Scholar

    Amasius
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Messages:
    931
    Location:
    Thanatos
    Finally The Escapist starts arguing, with strong arguments and stuff:

    :lol:
    ^ Top  
  4. Matt7895 Magister Patron

    Matt7895
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    4,925
    Location:
    UK
    Codex 2014 Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    I've just been reading Brother None's posts. His first one is particularly admirable. I'll quote it and post it here if BN doesn't mind.

    ^ Top  
  5. JoKa Savant

    JoKa
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2006
    Messages:
    626
    Location:
    Nordland
    amasius...your sig's just brilliant in this context...

    and concerning the escapist: they're so bad nowadays, i'm watching zero punctuation on youtube et al. just to not give them any more hits...
    ^ Top  
  6. Elwro Arcane Patron

    Elwro
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    10,518
    Location:
    Krakow, Poland
    Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
    Maybe I'm being paranoid, but in case they delete the thread, I have both pages archived in a DOC file (yeah, sorry for the format). Banning BN for his part in the discussion is ridiculous. Even Bethstapo wouldn't do such a thing.

    Anyway, the whole thread speaks for itself. The Escapist just sinks lower and lower and is PROUD OF IT.
    ^ Top  
  7. Brother None Prestigious Gentleman On the line for InXile

    Brother None
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2004
    Messages:
    5,494
    What? Are you stupid? That's not admirable at all! I'm saying gaming journalists should be held to the same journalistic standards as other professional journalists! You can't say that, that's idiotic, can't you see only Russ Pitts has the right to decide if he's good at his job or not?

    Whatever, you're banned.
    ^ Top  
  8. FrancoTAU Liturgist

    FrancoTAU
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,496
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    They banned him for that post? I don't know how one could put together a disagreement any more polite and well thought out.
    ^ Top  
  9. Corvus.E Novice

    Corvus.E
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    18
    Okay, here I am.

    Brother None, I'm sorry you were banned. I'm a contractor and have no control over the actual operations of the site. I'm also sorry I didn't like the game and I'm sorry my article was labeled as a review.

    Everyone else:

    I not only loved Fallout despite my antipathy for TBC, I also loved X-COM.

    The majority of my table top RPG experience has included attempts to better integrate combat into the storytelling portions of gaming. While I can see why RPGs use turn based combat, it does suit my style in real life anymore than it does in most computer games.

    I believe that games, as an art form, are a highly subjective experience.

    I loved Ultima VII, cheesy dialog and all. I have played it all the way through, including side quests, more times than I can count.

    I hated Morrowwind as an empty shell of an unrewarding, unmemorable and un-enjoyable experience. I can't even bring myself to mention anything positive about it's system. I can't imagine I'd feel any differently about Oblivion.

    I have larped exactly twice in my life. I didn't much care for it either time.

    Any other assumptions about me and my tastes that you'd like me to address? I'll do my best to do so here, on your turf.
    ^ Top  
  10. Otingocni Novice

    Otingocni
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    92
    CorvusE, I had a comment for you as well as Russ Pitts. Of course, being the insufferable ass that he is, he promptly deleted it. I copy it for your benefit, while some of it is redundant, keep in mind that it was intended for another message board. By the way, I hope you do not consider me stupid or any less literate merely because I can be crude. That would be a rather foolish mistake.
    Edit: Well, you have actually shown up. That is a good step, I hope you can learn something positive from this conversation.
    ^ Top  
  11. Nael Magister

    Nael
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    5,625
    Specifically? I think almost anyone with the english version would probably agree with me when I say the Investigation quest in Act 2 is shoddily written and conceived. Conversations with suspects made little to no sense. Often the only way you could understand what to do next given the shitty half-assed writing would be to divine it somehow by the clipped and incredibly vague journal entries. Sometimes the quest update popup was the most detailed account of what was going on.

    It just gives that unmistakeable feeling that something was missing or left out. Like reading a partially unclassified document or an excerpt from some burned up manuscript.

    Another thing I noticed about the "first 10 hours" (I specifically feel it's the first 2 chapters) is that the options you have for dialogue choices are very limited. I can understand this if the developers wanted a more focused introduction to the game, but the writing (or at least the translation) doesn't excuse this approach, imo. Perhaps the original script handles an indecisive, amnesic witcher a bit more intelligibly, but the English script just feels half-assed and confused. And so much of the voiceacting seems to suffer from this script as well. Characters that seem to not understand what's going on. It would be like if Marlon Brando muttered: "Stella?" when the line called for him to shout "STELLA!" at the top of his lungs.

    But...

    Like I've said numerous times it seems as if at Act 3 the voiceactors asked the director more questions about their character's motives and feelings. Dialogue options for Geralt are more fleshed out and numerous. The plot moves at a seemingly perfect pace. And most importantly everything is much more cohesive and when loose-ends are tied up it's much clearer as to the how and why while still leaving a palpable sense of intrigue.

    So there's my two pennies for ya. Hopefully some other players of the English version will explain it better than I have.
    ^ Top  
  12. Matt7895 Magister Patron

    Matt7895
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    4,925
    Location:
    UK
    Codex 2014 Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    Actually BN's turf is over at NMA, but you'll only find tears and rapeage there.
    ^ Top  
  13. Corvus.E Novice

    Corvus.E
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    18
    Well, you asked so nicely.
    ^ Top  
  14. Herbert West Arbiter

    Herbert West
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,293
    The truth HURTS badly, now matter how politely you put it. Gratz to the guy who's philosophy is not to be better than his competition but at least as bad if not worse.

    What the fuck? Why would he destroy his credibility? He is [or was] a journalist- credibility and readers' trust are THE most precious things he can have! That's one drama-oozing harakiri I'm going to enjoy watching!

    And I'd say that Brother None wasn't banned but martyred :wink:

    Don't worry BN, we love you :cool:
    ^ Top  
  15. Brother None Prestigious Gentleman On the line for InXile

    Brother None
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2004
    Messages:
    5,494
    I know you have no control over operations of the site. I'm sorry your first paid article is getting so much flak when some of it is out of your hands.

    You don't have to apologize for not liking the game, you can dislike the game as much as you like, that's really your own business. The fact that your short impressions ended up being presented as a review on a site with 1 million users a month stings, because this is a game the Codex has a lot of investment in, finally showing positive development of the RPG genre after nearly a decade of drought.

    And thanks for coming over here to less moderated grounds. Be prepared to receive a lot of flames, though :salute:

    Yes. But that's not the point, the point is you're not just paid to have an opinion, you're paid to have an informed opinion. There's a huge difference between the two, and despite what mr Pitts is selling us, the difference is quantifiable and important.

    I hope with "you" you mean the Codex, and not me personally. I haven't made any assumptions about you or your tastes, because, very honestly, I don't care about you or your tastes. I care about the Escapist's editorial policy.

    You really are a bit self-centered, Corvus. It really isn't necessary or all that interesting to anyone for you to describe your literacy or gaming background.

    I hope you don't think I made Otingocni's flame-filled post. I can understand if that was confusing as he registered just after my ban, so it looked like a re-register, but I rarely go back to personal attacks and insults to get my point across.

    NMA and GameBanshee (we also didn't like this review there), but yeah, both those places have less tears and raping than this place :D
    ^ Top  
  16. Elwro Arcane Patron

    Elwro
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    10,518
    Location:
    Krakow, Poland
    Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
    I'm actually curious, Corvus. Did you patch the game to 1.1a? I've been playing the game lately and the camera is completely unproblematic. (I don't know if the patch addresses this specific issue, though.)
    ^ Top  
  17. aries202 Erudite

    aries202
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,064
    Location:
    Denmark, Europe
    I've mentioned the Codex thoughts about Culpa Innata over at gameboomers.com in this thread:

    http://www.gameboomers.com/forum/ubbthr ... Post237178
    (there's a relevant point to this, I promise).

    We seem to agree (on gameboomers) that reviews for adventure games have been sinking a lot during the last few years or so, probably because most yong kids these days don't ever have played one.
    (an adventure game that is...)

    The point relevant to this discussion is this: When a reviewer of say, an rpg game or an adventure game only plays like 5 or 6 hours of it or maybe 101-12 hours of say 80 hour game, can he then make a just & fair comment or review abotu the game :?: In all fairness, I would say 'yes'.

    I didn't have to play more than ½-1 hour of Pool of Radiance 2 to notice what a bad game it truly is, like I din't have to play more than ½ hour of Syberia or TLJ or Fallout to notice how good these games really are. Likewise with the Gothc games. I didn't much care for the akward combat syste, but I stuck through it beacuse of the scenery and the story. NWN2's story seems very bland and sort of meh, the same goes for the story in Jade Empire, I think. But Ii stuck with it because of the characters and the scenery and other things...

    In the linked thread above, I also mention that if I were to review say a strategy game, I would do so. Of course, I would mention that normally strategy games confuse me and maybe even bore me at some times, because of their gameplay. But in my review of a strategy game, or fps game, I would be loyal to the genre and think about what fans of FPS or strategy games might like. Just as as an example, I can mention that I played the demo for Halo: Combat Evolved (halo1) and liked it very much. (something that really were a big surprise to me). I also like the demo for Lost Planet. Of course, if I were to write a full review of say Lost Planet, I would do something similar to what Brother None is doing at Gamebanshee.

    As for CorvusE's disliking of the sexcard minigame, I have to admit that I dont like it much either. However, as several people, both here and on the Escapist's as well as CorvusE's own blog, has pointed out, it is voluntary to do the mini-game. You don't have to sleep with the women if you don't want to. It is optional. The Witcher's story also takes place in a more realistic world than D&D fantasy. This means that there will be (some) misogynistic things in The Wicther since this game mimicks how reality were for both genders in the 14th-16th century in Europe. And the reality for women were pretty much as The Witcher states. If some company were to make an RPG during the abolitionist era in the US, slavery would be put in the game (or at least I hope so). Medieval society treated women different than societu do today. It would be wrong not to include this in a game that tries to portray how medieval society functioned.
    ^ Top  
  18. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2007
    Messages:
    26,115
    Location:
    Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
    You can treat this as a baptism of fire of a sort.
    ^ Top  
  19. Herbert West Arbiter

    Herbert West
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,293
    I salute your courage. This is going to be tough and unpleasant for you, however there are many intelligent and well argumented opinions and insights in this ocean of flames and hatred.
    ^ Top  
  20. Corvus.E Novice

    Corvus.E
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    18
    Each statement was made in response to a specific accusation raised in this thread. I didn't intend to just ramble on without purpose.

    Oh and this wasn't my first paid article... just my first paid review. Hopefully the next one will go better.

    Well, here's more fuel for the fire. After considerable run-around in getting a copy of the game to run successfully on my machine (auth code mixups on the promotion company's end), my preview code expired. Atari graciously forwarded me a full copy to review. I wanted to get something to the Escapist in a timely fashion and completed the article within a week.

    This was back when the game was just released. If I'd known it wasn't going to press right away, I would have taken more time with the game.

    Anyway, the patch wasn't out then. So no, I didn't run it with the patch.
    ^ Top  
  21. Matt7895 Magister Patron

    Matt7895
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    4,925
    Location:
    UK
    Codex 2014 Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    I play the game using OTS and I love using that perspective. To be absolutely honest it's the best camera I've ever seen in an RPG. After playing NWN2 and MotB it's really like going from Tesco bargain cola to authentic Coca-Cola.

    Granted I've only played on 1.1a, I don't know how things were before then.
    ^ Top  
  22. Herbert West Arbiter

    Herbert West
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,293
    No! OTS in TW is liek Pepsi, becuase Coca Cola is crap!!1
    ^ Top  
  23. Corvus.E Novice

    Corvus.E
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    18
    I made this same point on my blog this morning. 10% of Fallout was all I needed to be hooked. Same with Gothic and Ultima VII.

    Tell you all what. I'm in the middle of a rather large project right now which is taking up most of my time. In January, when it's over, I'll fire Witcher back up and grit my teeth through the first chapter, playing at least through the... third chapter. Then I'll repost my impressions here or even on m blog. Is that fair?
    ^ Top  
  24. Brother None Prestigious Gentleman On the line for InXile

    Brother None
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2004
    Messages:
    5,494
    Ah shit, son.

    That's just awful. Awful editorial work, to be honest. How can you give your journalist an early deadline only to publish it much later?

    Dang!

    And that's fine for a gamer, not for a journalist. Unless you say "Review: The First 10 Hours of The Witcher" instead of "Review: The Witcher".

    Yay! :codexdevil:
    ^ Top  
  25. Elwro Arcane Patron

    Elwro
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    10,518
    Location:
    Krakow, Poland
    Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
    Whoa, that's really sloppy on part of Escapist. And in such circumstances, the editors should have put "WARNING: THIS TEXT WAS WRITTEN AFTER PLAYING THE UNPATCHED VERSION OF THE GAME DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE PATCH IS A FEW WEEKS OLD" in bold letters above your text. Not your fault, of course.

    edit: Yes, that'd be cool!
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above links helps us pay the hosting bills)