Review The Escapist bitch-slaps The Witcher

[Elwro]

Now that's drama. They banned BN.

edit: I'm late as usual. Now it's the "it's all subjective" stance all over again.

 

[DraQ]

There can be only one.

 

[Amasius]

Finally The Escapist starts arguing, with strong arguments and stuff:

Perhaps you're not against journalistic standards, but just annoyed by the fact that people have high expectancies from Escapist material?

Perhaps.

Or perhaps I ignore questions of my journalistic integrity because I'm confident enough in my qualifications and abilities to not need reassurance from the peanut gallery that I'm doing the right thing.

Either way you're banned. Again. Because I'm also confident in my ability to detect a forum troll, and you're it. You're a very clever troll, but a troll nonetheless and like I said the last time I banned you, we just don't need that around here.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

I've just been reading Brother None's posts. His first one is particularly admirable. I'll quote it and post it here if BN doesn't mind.

If I read a book review, I assume the reviewer read the entire thing. If I read a movie review, I assume the reviewer watched the entire thing. And if something is called a game "review", I should damned well be able to assume someone played the entire thing.

Aren't you people getting paid for this? I'd say an integral part of being able to call yourself a game journalist (I usually don't, as the term has too many negative connotations) is that you have more expertise on the subject and, perhaps more importantly, spend more time on games than the average person?

Let me put it this way, if someone plays the Witcher for ten hours, goes onto a forum and posts "this game are the suck", I'd probably fault his usage of the English language, but other than that I'd shrug and go "at least he gave it a try." But he's not a professional, it's not his job to review games. The moment you make that your job, the moment you claim journalistic professionalism, you are held up to higher standards.

Because when push comes to shove, that's what this is about. A journalist's standards. If you do not play the entire game, don't come running to your users with something you claim to be a "review". You haven't played the entire game, then how can you review the entire game? That's patent nonsense. This article is an opinion piece, or an impressions piece, it is not a review.

The Escapist takes its sweet time, being one of the last to review this game, and then brings us a bunch of impressions based on an incomplete playthrough...and you're actually surprised people don't like it? It's an insult both to the professionals who did invest a lot of time before coming to their conclusions and it is deceitful to the readers to call it a review when it really isn't.

But at least Corvus opens by providing some context, that's good.

The fact that you're trying to defend it as such reflects really badly on the standards of the Escapist, you know.

 

[JoKa]

amasius...your sig's just brilliant in this context...

and concerning the escapist: they're so bad nowadays, i'm watching zero punctuation on youtube et al. just to not give them any more hits...

 

[Elwro]

Maybe I'm being paranoid, but in case they delete the thread, I have both pages archived in a DOC file (yeah, sorry for the format). Banning BN for his part in the discussion is ridiculous. Even Bethstapo wouldn't do such a thing.

Anyway, the whole thread speaks for itself. The Escapist just sinks lower and lower and is PROUD OF IT.

 

[Brother None]

I've just been reading Brother None's posts. His first one is particularly admirable.

What? Are you stupid? That's not admirable at all! I'm saying gaming journalists should be held to the same journalistic standards as other professional journalists! You can't say that, that's idiotic, can't you see only Russ Pitts has the right to decide if he's good at his job or not?

Whatever, you're banned.

 

[FrancoTAU]

They banned him for that post? I don't know how one could put together a disagreement any more polite and well thought out.

 

[Corvus.E]

Okay, here I am.

Brother None, I'm sorry you were banned. I'm a contractor and have no control over the actual operations of the site. I'm also sorry I didn't like the game and I'm sorry my article was labeled as a review.

Everyone else:

I not only loved Fallout despite my antipathy for TBC, I also loved X-COM.

The majority of my table top RPG experience has included attempts to better integrate combat into the storytelling portions of gaming. While I can see why RPGs use turn based combat, it does suit my style in real life anymore than it does in most computer games.

I believe that games, as an art form, are a highly subjective experience.

I loved Ultima VII, cheesy dialog and all. I have played it all the way through, including side quests, more times than I can count.

I hated Morrowwind as an empty shell of an unrewarding, unmemorable and un-enjoyable experience. I can't even bring myself to mention anything positive about it's system. I can't imagine I'd feel any differently about Oblivion.

I have larped exactly twice in my life. I didn't much care for it either time.

Any other assumptions about me and my tastes that you'd like me to address? I'll do my best to do so here, on your turf.

 

[Otingocni]

CorvusE, I had a comment for you as well as Russ Pitts. Of course, being the insufferable ass that he is, he promptly deleted it. I copy it for your benefit, while some of it is redundant, keep in mind that it was intended for another message board. By the way, I hope you do not consider me stupid or any less literate merely because I can be crude. That would be a rather foolish mistake.

Russ Pitts, sir, you are a complete and utter reject of humanity. You wave around your little stick of authority like it actual means something, while at the same time wasting any respectability The Escapist ever earned through your incompetence. I do not blame CorvusE, he is just a dumb kid who wants to write about games; it is your ilk however that encourage all the wrong behaviors. And please, Russ Pitts, do not be a little hypocritical bastard, though I suppose you are well set in that vein. After all, you banned Brother None simply for proving what a joke you fellows are as editors or even journalists.

CorvusE, do no\'t be a coward, if you have something to say to me, do it where I wont be banned as soon as I post. There is an open invitation at the Codex, and please do no\'t pretend you are too good for the place. Harsh language is at least honest, unlike the backhanded comments you seem to prefer. Russ Pitts, you are welcome as well.

Do no\'t worry about me by the way, I have said what I wanted and won\'t register again. I would not post again, but I know that choice will be taken away when this account is promptly banned.

If you want an honest conversation, come to the Codex. Otherwise, continue with your fantasies of righteousness and importance.

Edit: Well, you have actually shown up. That is a good step, I hope you can learn something positive from this conversation.

 

[Nael]

I just can't understand why first 10 hours of TW sucks? I saw this opinion quite often and I don't agree with it at all. There must be something really, really bad going on in translation/voice acting department because I play original, Polish version and I can't understand what's wrong with first 10 hours! There ARE flaws, sure, but dialogs and some of the voice acting are just brilliant. The humor also was great, although I laughed mostly in Acts 2 and 3, first 10 hours also got its moments. So please, all English version owners speak up and tell me more about first 10 hours, where's the 'suckness' over there?

Specifically? I think almost anyone with the english version would probably agree with me when I say the Investigation quest in Act 2 is shoddily written and conceived. Conversations with suspects made little to no sense. Often the only way you could understand what to do next given the shitty half-assed writing would be to divine it somehow by the clipped and incredibly vague journal entries. Sometimes the quest update popup was the most detailed account of what was going on.

It just gives that unmistakeable feeling that something was missing or left out. Like reading a partially unclassified document or an excerpt from some burned up manuscript.

Another thing I noticed about the "first 10 hours" (I specifically feel it's the first 2 chapters) is that the options you have for dialogue choices are very limited. I can understand this if the developers wanted a more focused introduction to the game, but the writing (or at least the translation) doesn't excuse this approach, imo. Perhaps the original script handles an indecisive, amnesic witcher a bit more intelligibly, but the English script just feels half-assed and confused. And so much of the voiceacting seems to suffer from this script as well. Characters that seem to not understand what's going on. It would be like if Marlon Brando muttered: "Stella?" when the line called for him to shout "STELLA!" at the top of his lungs.

But...

Like I've said numerous times it seems as if at Act 3 the voiceactors asked the director more questions about their character's motives and feelings. Dialogue options for Geralt are more fleshed out and numerous. The plot moves at a seemingly perfect pace. And most importantly everything is much more cohesive and when loose-ends are tied up it's much clearer as to the how and why while still leaving a palpable sense of intrigue.

So there's my two pennies for ya. Hopefully some other players of the English version will explain it better than I have.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Actually BN's turf is over at NMA, but you'll only find tears and rapeage there.

 

[Corvus.E]

Edit: Well, you have actually shown up. That is a good step, I hope you can learn something positive from this conversation.

Well, you asked so nicely.

 

[Herbert West]

They banned him for that post? I don't know how one could put together a disagreement any more polite and well thought out.

The truth HURTS badly, now matter how politely you put it. Gratz to the guy who's philosophy is not to be better than his competition but at least as bad if not worse.

What the fuck? Why would he destroy his credibility? He is [or was] a journalist- credibility and readers' trust are THE most precious things he can have! That's one drama-oozing harakiri I'm going to enjoy watching!

And I'd say that Brother None wasn't banned but martyred :wink:

Don't worry BN, we love you

 

[Brother None]

Brother None, I'm sorry you were banned. I'm a contractor and have no control over the actual operations of the site. I'm also sorry I didn't like the game and I'm sorry my article was labeled as a review.

I know you have no control over operations of the site. I'm sorry your first paid article is getting so much flak when some of it is out of your hands.

You don't have to apologize for not liking the game, you can dislike the game as much as you like, that's really your own business. The fact that your short impressions ended up being presented as a review on a site with 1 million users a month stings, because this is a game the Codex has a lot of investment in, finally showing positive development of the RPG genre after nearly a decade of drought.

And thanks for coming over here to less moderated grounds. Be prepared to receive a lot of flames, though

I believe that games, as an art form, are a highly subjective experience.

Yes. But that's not the point, the point is you're not just paid to have an opinion, you're paid to have an informed opinion. There's a huge difference between the two, and despite what mr Pitts is selling us, the difference is quantifiable and important.

Any other assumptions about me and my tastes that you'd like me to address? I'll do my best to do so here, on your turf.

I hope with "you" you mean the Codex, and not me personally. I haven't made any assumptions about you or your tastes, because, very honestly, I don't care about you or your tastes. I care about the Escapist's editorial policy.

You really are a bit self-centered, Corvus. It really isn't necessary or all that interesting to anyone for you to describe your literacy or gaming background.

I hope you don't think I made Otingocni's flame-filled post. I can understand if that was confusing as he registered just after my ban, so it looked like a re-register, but I rarely go back to personal attacks and insults to get my point across.

Actually BN's turf is over at NMA, but you'll only find tears and rapeage there.

NMA and GameBanshee (we also didn't like this review there), but yeah, both those places have less tears and raping than this place :D

 

[Elwro]

I'm actually curious, Corvus. Did you patch the game to 1.1a? I've been playing the game lately and the camera is completely unproblematic. (I don't know if the patch addresses this specific issue, though.)

 

[aries202]

I've mentioned the Codex thoughts about Culpa Innata over at gameboomers.com in this thread:

http://www.gameboomers.com/forum/ubbthr ... Post237178
(there's a relevant point to this, I promise).

We seem to agree (on gameboomers) that reviews for adventure games have been sinking a lot during the last few years or so, probably because most yong kids these days don't ever have played one.
(an adventure game that is...)

The point relevant to this discussion is this: When a reviewer of say, an rpg game or an adventure game only plays like 5 or 6 hours of it or maybe 101-12 hours of say 80 hour game, can he then make a just & fair comment or review abotu the game : In all fairness, I would say 'yes'.

I didn't have to play more than ½-1 hour of Pool of Radiance 2 to notice what a bad game it truly is, like I din't have to play more than ½ hour of Syberia or TLJ or Fallout to notice how good these games really are. Likewise with the Gothc games. I didn't much care for the akward combat syste, but I stuck through it beacuse of the scenery and the story. NWN2's story seems very bland and sort of meh, the same goes for the story in Jade Empire, I think. But Ii stuck with it because of the characters and the scenery and other things...

In the linked thread above, I also mention that if I were to review say a strategy game, I would do so. Of course, I would mention that normally strategy games confuse me and maybe even bore me at some times, because of their gameplay. But in my review of a strategy game, or fps game, I would be loyal to the genre and think about what fans of FPS or strategy games might like. Just as as an example, I can mention that I played the demo for Halo: Combat Evolved (halo1) and liked it very much. (something that really were a big surprise to me). I also like the demo for Lost Planet. Of course, if I were to write a full review of say Lost Planet, I would do something similar to what Brother None is doing at Gamebanshee.

As for CorvusE's disliking of the sexcard minigame, I have to admit that I dont like it much either. However, as several people, both here and on the Escapist's as well as CorvusE's own blog, has pointed out, it is voluntary to do the mini-game. You don't have to sleep with the women if you don't want to. It is optional. The Witcher's story also takes place in a more realistic world than D&D fantasy. This means that there will be (some) misogynistic things in The Wicther since this game mimicks how reality were for both genders in the 14th-16th century in Europe. And the reality for women were pretty much as The Witcher states. If some company were to make an RPG during the abolitionist era in the US, slavery would be put in the game (or at least I hope so). Medieval society treated women different than societu do today. It would be wrong not to include this in a game that tries to portray how medieval society functioned.

 

[DraQ]

Be prepared to receive a lot of flames, though

You can treat this as a baptism of fire of a sort.

 

[Herbert West]

Edit: Well, you have actually shown up. That is a good step, I hope you can learn something positive from this conversation.

Well, you asked so nicely.

I salute your courage. This is going to be tough and unpleasant for you, however there are many intelligent and well argumented opinions and insights in this ocean of flames and hatred.

 

[Corvus.E]

You really are a bit self-centered, Corvus. It really isn't necessary or all that interesting to anyone for you to describe your literacy or gaming background.

Each statement was made in response to a specific accusation raised in this thread. I didn't intend to just ramble on without purpose.

Oh and this wasn't my first paid article... just my first paid review. Hopefully the next one will go better.

I'm actually curious, Corvus. Did you patch the game to 1.1a? I've been playing the game lately and the camera is completely unproblematic. (I don't know if the patch addresses this specific issue, though.)

Well, here's more fuel for the fire. After considerable run-around in getting a copy of the game to run successfully on my machine (auth code mixups on the promotion company's end), my preview code expired. Atari graciously forwarded me a full copy to review. I wanted to get something to the Escapist in a timely fashion and completed the article within a week.

This was back when the game was just released. If I'd known it wasn't going to press right away, I would have taken more time with the game.

Anyway, the patch wasn't out then. So no, I didn't run it with the patch.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

I play the game using OTS and I love using that perspective. To be absolutely honest it's the best camera I've ever seen in an RPG. After playing NWN2 and MotB it's really like going from Tesco bargain cola to authentic Coca-Cola.

Granted I've only played on 1.1a, I don't know how things were before then.

 

[Herbert West]

I play the game using OTS and I love using that perspective. To be absolutely honest it's the best camera I've ever seen in an RPG. After playing NWN2 and MotB it's really like going from Tesco bargain cola to authentic Coca-Cola.

No! OTS in TW is liek Pepsi, becuase Coca Cola is crap!!1

 

[Corvus.E]

The point relevant to this discussion is this: When a reviewer of say, an rpg game or an adventure game only plays like 5 or 6 hours of it or maybe 101-12 hours of say 80 hour game, can he then make a just & fair comment or review abotu the game : In all fairness, I would say 'yes'.

I made this same point on my blog this morning. 10% of Fallout was all I needed to be hooked. Same with Gothic and Ultima VII.

Tell you all what. I'm in the middle of a rather large project right now which is taking up most of my time. In January, when it's over, I'll fire Witcher back up and grit my teeth through the first chapter, playing at least through the... third chapter. Then I'll repost my impressions here or even on m blog. Is that fair?

 

[Brother None]

Well, here's more fuel for the fire. After considerable run-around in getting a copy of the game to run successfully on my machine (auth code mixups on the promotion company's end), my preview code expired. Atari graciously forwarded me a full copy to review. I wanted to get something to the Escapist in a timely fashion and completed the article within a week.

This was back when the game was just released. If I'd known it wasn't going to press right away, I would have taken more time with the game.

Anyway, the patch wasn't out then. So no, I didn't run it with the patch.

Ah shit, son.

That's just awful. Awful editorial work, to be honest. How can you give your journalist an early deadline only to publish it much later?

Dang!

I made this same point on my blog this morning. 10% of Fallout was all I needed to be hooked. Same with Gothic and Ultima VII.

And that's fine for a gamer, not for a journalist. Unless you say "Review: The First 10 Hours of The Witcher" instead of "Review: The Witcher".

Tell you all what. I'm in the middle of a rather large project right now which is taking up most of my time. In January, when it's over, I'll fire Witcher back up and grit my teeth through the first chapter, playing at least through the... third chapter. Then I'll repost my impressions here or even on m blog. Is that fair?

Yay! :codexdevil:

 

[Elwro]

Atari graciously forwarded me a full copy to review. I wanted to get something to the Escapist in a timely fashion and completed the article within a week.

This was back when the game was just released. If I'd known it wasn't going to press right away, I would have taken more time with the game.

Whoa, that's really sloppy on part of Escapist. And in such circumstances, the editors should have put "WARNING: THIS TEXT WAS WRITTEN AFTER PLAYING THE UNPATCHED VERSION OF THE GAME DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE PATCH IS A FEW WEEKS OLD" in bold letters above your text. Not your fault, of course.

edit: Yes, that'd be cool!