The Elder Scrolls Online - gone B2P

[Sceptic]

So I never really bothered following this and I don't feel like trudging through 120 pages to try and find detailed impressions from those who played this. Now that's it's gone subscription-less, a good friend of mine has been bugging me to get it and play it with him. I might actually get it at the next sale if it drops enough, but I'd like to get some Codexer impressions first. Has anyone posted a more detailed mini-review somewhere? (you don't need to link me to it, if I have a username I can search for it myself). I'd have loved to have DraQ's impressions but I suspect you never actually got it.

 

[Aenra]

if I have a username I can search for it myself

You can check my posts here some pages back.
TLDR? With what little i 'know' of you? On your own, answer is stay away. With company..so-so..but you got better MMOs to play with people you're friends with

 

[Stokowski]

Here's my mini-review:

First area: escape from Oblivion. OK, whatever.
Training Island: very nice, lots of variety of places and quests.
First Main Questing area: light forest, hills, caves.
2nd area: slightly denser forest, hills, caves.
3rd area: back to light forest, hills, caves.
4th area: oohhh - slightly denser forest, hills, caves.
5th area: back to light forest, hills, caves.
... repeat until insane.

They are so fucking lazy their zones don't have the equivalent difference of a fucking palette swap. Tamriel has somehow become the single most boring biome ever presented in a fantasy game.

The rest is generally bland sub-Tera reticle combat, with 99% trash mobs "spiced up" with 1% unkillables - until you are vastly overlevelled for the area in which you encounter them (Why do they do this? Do they think it fosters team play?).

Has some interesting character development systems.

 

[Cyberarmy]

... repeat until insane.

This game in a nut shell. Wait till game tells you that you need to complete other sides quests to get to max veteran level.
MMOs are mostly about grind but TESO really takes it up to a new level.

 

[Kem0sabe]

The repeat the other faction zones for veteran levels has to be one of the most lazy design decisions i have ever witnessed in an mmo, truly bellow the standards of even the most budget korean grindfest.

 

[Angthoron]

So I never really bothered following this and I don't feel like trudging through 120 pages to try and find detailed impressions from those who played this. Now that's it's gone subscription-less, a good friend of mine has been bugging me to get it and play it with him. I might actually get it at the next sale if it drops enough, but I'd like to get some Codexer impressions first. Has anyone posted a more detailed mini-review somewhere? (you don't need to link me to it, if I have a username I can search for it myself). I'd have loved to have DraQ's impressions but I suspect you never actually got it.

It's the definition of bland, banal and boring. If you've never played an MMO in your life and are unemployed, it might fascinate you for a bit, but basically it's pretty much crap.

 

[bozia2012]

The repeat the other faction zones for veteran levels has to be one of the most lazy design decisions i have ever witnessed in an mmo, truly bellow the standards of even the most budget korean grindfest.

But...but... you can experience the heart-gripping narrative from a different perspective!

 

[Sceptic]

TLDR? With what little i 'know' of you? On your own, answer is stay away. With company..so-so..but you got better MMOs to play with people you're friends with

Yeah reading your thoughts didn't really encourage me to give it a shot

It's the definition of bland, banal and boring. If you've never played an MMO in your life and are unemployed, it might fascinate you for a bit, but basically it's pretty much crap.

That's the thing, I've not interest in it as an MMO. I was hoping it'd be "TES but as an MMO", and despite not having much hope that Beth will ever do anything good after Morrowind, just looking at how much of the continent the game covers made me think hey, maybe I could squeeze some enjoyment out of it. But it looks like it's more "MMO with TES trappings", and they can't even seem to get the trappings right (the plot reads like "Oblivion again, but this time it's Molag Bal"). Looks like I'll give it a pass, thanks for the comments.

 

[Erzherzog]

That's the thing, I've not interest in it as an MMO. I was hoping it'd be "TES but as an MMO", and despite not having much hope that Beth will ever do anything good after Morrowind, just looking at how much of the continent the game covers made me think hey, maybe I could squeeze some enjoyment out of it. But it looks like it's more "MMO with TES trappings", and they can't even seem to get the trappings right (the plot reads like "Oblivion again, but this time it's Molag Bal"). Looks like I'll give it a pass, thanks for the comments.

Reading the codex give you their bitching about a design of the game that's literally going to be patched out in two weeks is amusing. I feel like you deserve more in-depth explanation but the TL;DR is simply I agree it's not for you but check back in a year if you feel because reasons below.

I'm not denying that it's retarded to make you repeat EVEN MORE zones after you complete the zones of your faction of choice, it was also dumber to lock off two entire factions worth of content which is why the devs came up with a deeply flawed, rushed veteran system. BUT that is getting removed incrementally the next few months starting in early march.

I find the combat enjoyable. Bear in mind the only MMO experience I have is GW 1 and 2 and ESO, I found the combat system in GW1 to be just about perfect model for ARPG style. GW2 disappointed me by making my skill bar much more locked based on weapons, ESO having a little more room to play in that regard is actually one of two reasons I switched to it. (The other is the relative pace of content release) Nothing stops your assassin class from equipping a healing staff with a skill bar of healing spells. (You'll just suck, but any game that railroads me from bad decisions I find to be too strict overall). The chief problem I have is that I feel the devs don't realize this can be a potential source of strength. I've not heard any major plans to increase the variety of skills. With the Thieve's Guild exp there's a new skill line but how much it adds to combat I don't know. Could be little or no real addition.

PVP is decent, problem is the only mode is alliance vs. alliance. Supposedly duelling or arena style pvp is getting added but since I haven't heard of anything concrete I'm still counting it against them.

End game pve is for filthy casuals from what I gather. Considering that me and my friends have been doing just fine, and since I have the skills of a filthy casual, I'd tend to agree.

As far as TES but an MMO since you mention Morrowind specifically I'll use that for comparison. The one thing is some of the more bizarre lore TES is known for is sprinkled out in quest giver dialogue. There's a lot of lore books to be found but I haven't started reading them yet so I've no idea how much is recycled. Besides that a couple things are as they were in Oblivion/Skyrim. The main story is as bad as mentioned. The quest literally revolves around the Amulet of Kings as it did in Oblivion. In fact as far as the main quest is concerned it's blatantly Oblivion all over again. Molag Bal is Mehrunes Dagon. The Prophet is Martin Septim. Dark anchors are oblivion gates. There's no sort of questing like with the great houses in Morrowind. Dungeons are the Oblivion/Skyrim deal where they are typically one path looping back to the entrance. Guild questlines are linear and no bearing on anything in the game at all, as in Oblivion/Skyrim. I've heard rumors of an exp. dealing with some sort of conflict between Mephala Boethia and Nocturnal but nothing substantive.

All in all, this is a game being managed by a company that listens to fans and realizes when they've done dumb shit and fixes it. The problem is what got released initially was blatantly fucking awful. They've made a fuckton of improvements but it only brings us to something that's solidly mediocre. Since the game is trending towards a better experience and since content for the game is released frequently it has the potential to be worth it eventually...maybe. I can only recommend it outright to hardcore TES fans and more casual MMO fans. I play it because I'm a casual, and my friends even more so so it works out for us.

But I mean if the codex is going to bitch, do it properly.

 

[bozia2012]

> implying any amount of patching can save a TES game

 

[Angthoron]

Reading the codex give you their bitching about a design of the game that's literally going to be patched out in two weeks is amusing.

But I mean if the codex is going to bitch, do it properly.

Well, I think most Codexians tried out the original abomination that came out (or the version that went B2P) and didn't stick around to find out if it'll be fixed in 2 years or so, so please excuse us if our collective knowledge of the game being a pile of bland crap is no longer 100% valid.

 

[Erzherzog]

Reading the codex give you their bitching about a design of the game that's literally going to be patched out in two weeks is amusing.

But I mean if the codex is going to bitch, do it properly.

Well, I think most Codexians tried out the original abomination that came out (or the version that went B2P) and didn't stick around to find out if it'll be fixed in 2 years or so, so please excuse us if our collective knowledge of the game being a pile of bland crap is no longer 100% valid.

Which is something everyone forgot to mention in their rush to shit on another flawed game. I just feel if someone's asking our opinion they deserve details and accuracy. This is the codex after all, I thought we prided ourselves on how we can prove that most games are designed in a shitty manner. I mean you're literally defending speaking out of ignorance.

 

[Angthoron]

Reading the codex give you their bitching about a design of the game that's literally going to be patched out in two weeks is amusing.

But I mean if the codex is going to bitch, do it properly.

Well, I think most Codexians tried out the original abomination that came out (or the version that went B2P) and didn't stick around to find out if it'll be fixed in 2 years or so, so please excuse us if our collective knowledge of the game being a pile of bland crap is no longer 100% valid.

Which is something everyone forgot to mention in their rush to shit on another flawed game. I just feel if someone's asking our opinion they deserve details and accuracy. This is the codex after all, I thought we prided ourselves on how we can prove that most games are designed in a shitty manner. I mean you're literally defending speaking out of ignorance.

Well, it's still 95% shit, sorry to say.

 

[Erzherzog]

And that's a perfectly fine opinion to have, I just think it's better to be able to articulate why.

 

[Mastermind]

This is the codex after all, I thought we prided ourselves on how we can prove that most games are designed in a shitty manner.

 

[Angthoron]

And that's a perfectly fine opinion to have, I just think it's better to be able to articulate why.

'K, in relative order of impressions:

Poor choice of color palette
Terrible intro
Starter zones not that much better
Looting system, inventory...
Combat trying to be best of WoW, GW2 and TES worlds and ends up mostly bland
Abhorrent default UI (yes, I know, you can mod it, but was it so hard to make it usable right away? I actually played WoW unmodded for the longest time, I'll have you know)
Also, why the hell does the UI and the control scheme feel pretty much like it was made for a gamepad? I thought this was an MMO.
Derivative (I have played quite a few MMOs, YMMV)
Bad writing that likes to get in your face and ears (And I once complained about WoW/LotRO etc quests being mere text boxes), hello "skip button"
Terribad PvP
Kinda bland classes
Player base
Quest design
Zone design
Lore rape (starting with factions and the reasons behind them)

I could go on but let's just stop here before it gets too nitpicky. Thing is, as you have said yourself, you've not played that many MMOs. I have. This does not compare favorably.

 

[Sceptic]

I'd actually be really interested in at least a couple of sentences or examples about why you dislike some of these points, if you feel like elaborating.

 

[Aenra]

Sceptic

Combat:
- Tab-targetted, but disguised as (pseudo) real time aiming. Meaning it has the worse of both, resulting (empirically) in a choppy, half accurate, half pewpewie (because faux-real time) monstrocity. Kids love it, just read the forums, because while it's not like Tera's, at least it is half real time, ie halfway 'there' in their mind..
- You have no way to time your DoTs/HoTs. None. There are two mods that supposedly do that, but in reality they have their own internal timers, meaning they start counting from button key down and not from client-server-client initiation time; ie you cannot accurately measure them, and being an MMO, you lose your DoTs/HoTs you lose your follow-ups, your sustains, etc. This was done because numberz are, like, hard and shit, like, you know amaright?
- Extremely imbalanced. Dragon Knight wins all, the rest wander around from anywhere between pathetic and mediocre
- Shitty AI. Some mobs (so it feels, am not a programmer) are 'programmed' to hit you with special moves even if you are Houdini's reincarnation far as reflexes are concerned, others are so pathetically weak you wonder why the fuck they have an "Edgelord of Doom and Rape" prefix.

Instancing:
- In all areas.
- Even within areas..you want to enter a one-room house, lol? Instance. You want to exit it? Too fucking bad, because it's already flushed from your RAM/VRAM. Re-loading. Because instance.
- In crates. Yes, you heard me. Even in those. Their content is YOUR content. Because you are the special snowflake of this universe. Mommy told you it'd happen one day. Well she was right. Empty for me? No worries. You click on everything like an idiot anyway, because instanced content. Extra fun for watching trains of people going round crates, one right behind another. Trust me

Exploration:
- Linear in terms of geography.
- Obvious in terms of pathing. If looking at an overland area map (instanced remember? It's per area) and you cannot hazard a guess as to where an exit or a speshul cave is, you have other issues. Seek help.
- Speshul caves (ie the ones "unmarked", the ones you have to think!!!! in order to find) are an equal insult to your intelligence, because see pathing above. Enjoy.
- First two combined far as "dungeons" may be concerned. Though they have improved them slightly, you again will feel insulted to look at them. Enjoy your millennial interpretation of dungeon crawling.

Quests:
- If you read my older post here.. it says it all. Make not the mistake of thinking they might have improved, writing-wise.
- Because who needs thinking, NPCs shout at you. Just to be sure you know? THIS IS A QUEST. HERE. RIGHT HERE, YES, TALK TO ME.
- Just to be extra sure, NPCs also follow you! They literally run behind you so you don't miss your quest! Compass is so oldschool anyway. Really.

Professions:
- Grind grind grind, but unlike older MMOs, unfairly too. CDs (cooldowns). Even in advancing your profs. Worked all day? Too fucking bad. You're on CD, you learned as much as you could. We don't want you to be better than those that worked less, do we? Equality. So we have a CD. You advance in our terms. Even if said terms entail asian levels of grinding. So not only are you a special snowflake as we stated above, you are also the pinnacle of equality and excloosiveness. Simultaneously. Only you my dear. As Beth said, mommy would have been so proud.

Gearing:
- A-la WoW souless LFG rewards, each a set piece. Do more, get moar. 9,99$
- Crafted ones are too OP, take the fun right out of everything (assuming reading about combat didn't turn you off already) all the way to the end.
- To make it even worse, once you do get to the 'end' (you finished your faction's zones and can now do the 'grown up raids' + other factions), crafting takes a plunge and is crap. Who'd have guessed you grinded like an Asian money bot for nothing. Raid or good luck. Raid WITH this combat mind.

UI:
- Consolitis squared.
- Inaccurate. Fewer client-to-server calls because we don't want any high traffic. Of course this does mean you're fucked (slightly), but most of our customers are fucking retards, so who's gonna notice.
- Because Immershun (am not exaggerating here) you have NO, NO ingame tags. Saw someone running and want to talk to them? Good fucking luck, because you can't see name tags. Be quick and click them or goodbye.
- Oh, did i mention that even if you click them, you can't insta-interact with them, lol? Console-centric UI..you got a menu for a submenu (radial if you're on a console) before you give the command. In reality? If you want to talk to strangers/meet people? Why too fucking bad.

Dailies:
- The game was found to be too challenging (lol) and demanding (lol), so it now has dailies! Enjoy doing the same shit every day. You know, when the above is just too much adrenaline for your millennial soul to handle.

If you need further info in anything specific, let me know.

I owe you at least this much more for that DOS games' sound settings thread

 

[Angthoron]

I'd actually be really interested in at least a couple of sentences or examples about why you dislike some of these points, if you feel like elaborating.

Well, Aenra did a fairly good job, but any points you'd like elaboration on in particular? As you might know, I tend to get wordy when elaborating, and I'd like to keep people actually reading rather than TL;DRing stuff

 

[Sceptic]

I love reading walls of text, you should know this by now

I was specifically wondering about quest and zone design. I think Aenra's covered everything else thoroughly, and at this point I'm really just looking at even more reasons to ignore the game, any spark of "maybe this isn't THAT bad" I may have had is gone by now. It really seems like it is TES in name only, even worse than Oblivion, and just a terrible game (never mind MMO).

 

[Angthoron]

Well, the quests themselves are essential bread and butter MMO quests a-la "kill ten mudcrabs", "gather 10 mudcrab shells" and "fight the giant elite mudcrab", but someone in the dev team thought that they were amazing writers, so it's all highly intrusive as it's the same old shitty flavor text justifying the mudcrab genocide, but it's voiced, and you're supposed to converse with the NPCs. Of course, at the start you might think there's something important in those texts so you'll end up wasting your time not hitting the "skip" button or just running off after accepting, which improves your experience immensely as you might expect. They also seem to think you're going to be emotionally engaged in main plots... I'm not quite sure why, but there you go. Additionally, questing itself is very linear, so if you want to go off the rails and level up by other means, you might well miss out on follow-up quests, some of them may even be interesting (I dunno if any of them are, though).

Zones are just... bland, I guess. Intro zone is fucking horrible though, and it's both too long and too linear... not to mention the cardinal colors are blue, purple and black, so if you don't like to spend your time in a rough equivalent of a night club bathroom, you're out of luck. It's also likely the indicator of endgame, since the intro events take place in Oblivion or something.

Zone design itself is just bland. Zones are huge, but there's very little of interest or worth happening - no dynamic events as far as I've seen, and the exploration offers next to zero value, except for hunting down crystal shards that slightly improve your stats. Overall, I found no incentive to explore the map besides looking at a couple of landmarks and then just following the quest compass. Color palette didn't encourage me much, either - it's generally too heavily into pastels, and if I wanted to stare at pastels, I'd go to a yoga training class, thank you very much.

 

[RK47]

Game is shit. Whats your point?

 

[Angthoron]

I was being eloquent.

 

[Rahdulan]

So Thieves Guild is out now and it apparently got everyone singing praises about the game. What's the word from Codex?

 

[Caim]

So Thieves Guild is out now and it apparently got everyone singing praises about the game. What's the word from Codex?

We don't know because it's TESO, so it's shit we don't play.