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Dragon Age: Inquisition Pre-Release Thread

Xor

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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
I'm not saying they're good at developing the story, just that I think it receives more attention than the companions.


Hell, what is Bioware good at? I am honestly have trouble thinking of a single thing. Why the fuck do I even play their games?


Oh, that's right. The barren wasteland that is the cRPG genre.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I'm not saying they're good at developing the story, just that I think it receives more attention than the companions.

Again, a lot of people think that Bioware turned to shit when they began to make games that were thinly disguised companion dating simulators with increasingly understated "main quests". Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age 2.

The trend has been for greater and greater focus on companions. I'm puzzled at how you could think otherwise.
 

Nihiliste

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A quick look at their forums makes me want to vomit. Seems like 90% of the content is about sucking some companion's dick.

As someone who grew up in Edmonton with a number of the guys that are working at Bioware I'm happy that they're making money exploiting morons but it's gotta be depressing seeing that's who your target audience has become.
 

Xor

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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
I don't think I'm being clear. Or maybe I'm just going crazy. I don't have time to write up a full post addressing this argument, though, and I don't really care to push the point any further, so I'm just going to drop it. Little effort or too much effort, the characters still suck.
 
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I'm not saying they're good at developing the story, just that I think it receives more attention than the companions.

Again, a lot of people think that Bioware turned to shit when they began to make games that were thinly disguised companion dating simulators with increasingly understated "main quests". Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age 2.

The trend has been for greater and greater focus on companions. I'm puzzled at how you could think otherwise.

A lot of people have said that -- perhaps more than any other POV -- but I wouldn't say there has ever been a consensus with what is wrong at Bioware. Different groups of people have argued that different aspects of their product are more or less deficient and serve as the fundamental detriment to an enjoyable gaming experience.

Companions definitely exerted a greater design influence in Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 2, but I think Xor is talking less about design and more about writing. Like, somehow the best writing was reserved for the main story and not the companions.

I think that's a hard argument to make, but it isn't impossible.
 

Psquit

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Old blizzard with starcraft 1 and diablo 1+2 is better than any bioware plot that came after baldur gate 2.
 
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Bioware has some of the better writers in the gaming industry.

(That is not a particularly high bar to clear.)

Sadly this is almost certainly true. But it's not just the low bar that makes Bioware open to criticism. They're making games in a style where the writing, by their own marketing, is supposed to be one of the selling points.

And I don't just mean 'they make crpgs'. Dialogue has always been terribad in the Bethesda games, even Daggerfall and Morrowind, but it's so peripheral to what they're trying to do that it's just not a particularly biting negative. I find criticisms of the writing in BG to be inane for much the same reason.

It's the difference between making System Shock and Doom. They're both shooters, but in Doom it's fine that the lead states that 'story is just what you put on the back of the box', whereas if you're trying to make SS you'd better have some decent writing. Imagine if there was just as much dialogue in SS, and it was just as central, but all of it was at the level of Doom (well, the stuff on the back of the Doom box)...

...okay that might be fucking hilarious:). But unintentional humour aside, it would really hurt the game even if the other mechanics were just as good as Doom's.
 
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DalekFlay

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Remember these are writing teams. "Bioware" as an entity has no inherent writing skill, the people in Gaidar's writer's room do. There is definitely some good writing in Bioware games (well, other than Dragon Age 2, which was almost a complete hack job in my opinion). Even Mass Effect 3 has some excellent moments, small well written story beats or well done characters.

The problem is Bioware also has writers who are not that good, or who are hired for their ability to make goof waifu or good romance simulation rather than quality narrative. They also have a policy where if anyone finds something offensive they take it out, as mentioned by Gaidar himself in several interviews. Also mentioned by Gaidar in interviews is that the writing team is all women and one gay dude, which you do have to wonder if that aligns with the desires of their main audience (or traditional target audience anyway)... (of course they have basically said "fuck that audience" on their forums many times anyway, and admitted they want Angry Birds players more than Baldurs Gate players).

Basically I think there's talent there but they don't work well together and the focus and priorities are off, hence we get games (since ME1 anyway) that feel disjointed and poorly executed. They also surely have weird directives coming in from EA on a consistent basis.
 

Shannow

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Sorry guys, but Bio's stories are not just shit, their dialogue is also awful. Or have you forgotten the "I demand recompensation before I risk my life for some dude I just met. I so evul!"
The only Bioware game that I played that had actually good dialogue choices (and companion interaction) was DA2.
Even if you go back as far as BG2. Try playing the first dungeon and choosing options that are neither goody two shoes nor retarded evul. Good luck with that.
Bioware might be ok for goody two shoes players, but for more neutral or intelligent evil characters its usually mind-rape.

I know computer gaming's writing at its best can at most compete with pulp fantasy fiction, but Bioware is really no example of good writing even with this kind of competition. They're good at marketing and bribing hyping. And a certain vocal and fluent group of people like their CYOA, epic, "don't bother with gameplay" dating-sims. They're quite competent at those.
 

eremita

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I'm playing BG2:EE right now and I can definitely say that "evil" dialogue options are often retarded. Frankly, I think in case of dialogue, their late games are their best work. ME2/ME3/DA2 are genuine improvement in comparison with BG or KOTOR. Hell, even SWTOR was pretty decent as far as I remember. Especially in DA2 and ME3 I usually felt that majority of dialogue options had its place and made at least some sense and actually represented a not retarded perspective. Which, in the end, is the most important thing in RPG conversations...

Also everyone who thinks Blizzard and Bethesda have better writing than Bioware is fucking retard and shouldn't procreate for the sake of bright future of humanity.
 

Utgard-Loki

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just as an example:

in shadows of undrentide you can steal a baby.

you can steal a baby.

you can steal a baby.

just to make sure you understand: you can steal a baby.

what do you do with the baby? nothing. you just steal it and later drop it on the floor when you are tired of having the baby in your inventory.
 
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just as an example:

in shadows of undrentide you can steal a baby.

you can steal a baby.

you can steal a baby.

just to make sure you understand: you can steal a baby.

what do you do with the baby? nothing. you just steal it and later drop it on the floor when you are tired of having the baby in your inventory.

Bad example - all of the Bioware game's prior to then each had a running gag about the tendency of players to put any shit they can pick up into their packs and keep it for the game because earlier games would actually expect you to do that, as literally ANYTHING might pop up as a part of a puzzle quest.

Each of the games would have at least one object that there's no reason to pick up, is really weird to pick up, and can't be used for anything - dead cats, underwear, etc. BG:TOB lampshades this by letting you convert the 3 pantaloons into a magical pantaloon armour if you'd carried them over from BG1 and 2.

The baby was just SoU's entry in that running joke.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Not just Bioware:

9913.jpg


9924.jpg
 

grotsnik

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I think you were originally meant to be able to sell that baby into slavery, in all fairness.
 

Shadenuat

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Russia
Bioware writing was best when it was peripheral to the gameplay. Then they started to remove other elements to make easier progression from one voiced dialogue to another, and ruined that balance.

G0-T0 rapes all of them.
Agreed. He's probably one of the most unfairly overlooked characters in gaming
Because he's a fucking droid, third in a team, and is totaly useless like all non-jedi are. And as most of KOTOR2 characters, his development works around cutscenes Exile can't even intervent, obscure checks and bugs. I rate them on an Arcanum level characters: I love some of them more than Bioware characters, but Bio characters were implemented in games in a more consistent way with personal quests and dialogue happening at verious locations with timers. Since people got more time to spend with them and learn about them, they were remembered.
Not like someone like Atton, who's only option in dialogue forever would be "exit from dialogue" unless you get him on particular planet in one location at one spot.
 

hell bovine

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Sep 9, 2013
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just as an example:

in shadows of undrentide you can steal a baby.

you can steal a baby.

you can steal a baby.

just to make sure you understand: you can steal a baby.

what do you do with the baby? nothing. you just steal it and later drop it on the floor when you are tired of having the baby in your inventory.
You can change the baby into some sort of summoned monster in Hordes, though. That's what I liked about HotU; evil there could be really cheesy, like selling those annoying companions to the devils in Cania. Especially the one with the 'tragic' backstory, something about being an escaped demon slave or something. They don't make evil like this anymore. :/
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
just as an example:

in shadows of undrentide you can steal a baby.

you can steal a baby.

you can steal a baby.

just to make sure you understand: you can steal a baby.

what do you do with the baby? nothing. you just steal it and later drop it on the floor when you are tired of having the baby in your inventory.
You can change the baby into some sort of summoned monster in Hordes, though. That's what I liked about HotU; evil there could be really cheesy, like selling those annoying companions to the devils in Cania. Especially the one with the 'tragic' backstory, something about being an escaped demon slave or something. They don't make evil like this anymore. :/

That is interesting. I might replay NWN to try that out, I remember having a baby in my inventory once but I can't remember what I did with it.

HotU was pretty good, I remember hearing if you still had the ring Aribeth gave you in the OC you could talk to her when you found her in one of the hells, but if I remember correctly your inventory gets wiped at least once in between the OC and HotU.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Messages
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
You're not the same character as in the OC in SoU/HotU. You're not supposed to have that ring. Perhaps you're confusing HoTU with the final chapter of the OC.
 

Varnaan

Augur
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Nov 2, 2012
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Sorry guys, but Bio's stories are not just shit, their dialogue is also awful. Or have you forgotten the "I demand recompensation before I risk my life for some dude I just met. I so evul!"
The only Bioware game that I played that had actually good dialogue choices (and companion interaction) was DA2.
Even if you go back as far as BG2. Try playing the first dungeon and choosing options that are neither goody two shoes nor retarded evul. Good luck with that.
Bioware might be ok for goody two shoes players, but for more neutral or intelligent evil characters its usually mind-rape.

I know computer gaming's writing at its best can at most compete with pulp fantasy fiction, but Bioware is really no example of good writing even with this kind of competition. They're good at marketing and bribing hyping. And a certain vocal and fluent group of people like their CYOA, epic, "don't bother with gameplay" dating-sims. They're quite competent at those.


All their games dating back to Baldur's Gate have always greatly favored playing a good (very good) character by making you swim in good reputation points for anything you do because actually writting a multi aligned story is too complicated.
It's funny how in games with alignments, as soon as your reputation ended up too low for their liking you were instantly assaulted by overpowered squadrons of death taht came out of drawers.
The writing has always been generic and lazy job but at least they were able to write proper banal generic shit that anyone remotely into fantasy could stand, because it's generic as fuck; their post BG2 games though show that there was a huge shift in writing direction, and I guess they lost more than a publisher when Black Isle went under, the drop between banal generic BG2 and awful NWN is one of the fastest decline I have ever seen.

I guess after Gaider got some recognition he felt like he became too good for the "nerd crowd" and like a good little bitch started to act like a jock for revenge or something; and it's been getting pretty obvious with the way he rides social trends for popularity.
Too bad because he actually used to be an ok guy.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
You're not the same character as in the OC in SoU/HotU. You're not supposed to have that ring. Perhaps you're confusing HoTU with the final chapter of the OC.

Could be, it's been a long time since I played all three campaigns.
 

eremita

Savant
Joined
Sep 1, 2013
Messages
797
Sorry guys, but Bio's stories are not just shit, their dialogue is also awful. Or have you forgotten the "I demand recompensation before I risk my life for some dude I just met. I so evul!"
The only Bioware game that I played that had actually good dialogue choices (and companion interaction) was DA2.
Even if you go back as far as BG2. Try playing the first dungeon and choosing options that are neither goody two shoes nor retarded evul. Good luck with that.
Bioware might be ok for goody two shoes players, but for more neutral or intelligent evil characters its usually mind-rape.

I know computer gaming's writing at its best can at most compete with pulp fantasy fiction, but Bioware is really no example of good writing even with this kind of competition. They're good at marketing and bribing hyping. And a certain vocal and fluent group of people like their CYOA, epic, "don't bother with gameplay" dating-sims. They're quite competent at those.


All their games dating back to Baldur's Gate have always greatly favored playing a good (very good) character by making you swim in good reputation points for anything you do because actually writting a multi aligned story is too complicated.
It's funny how in games with alignments, as soon as your reputation ended up too low for their liking you were instantly assaulted by overpowered squadrons of death taht came out of drawers.
The writing has always been generic and lazy job but at least they were able to write proper banal generic shit that anyone remotely into fantasy could stand, because it's generic as fuck; their post BG2 games though show that there was a huge shift in writing direction, and I guess they lost more than a publisher when Black Isle went under, the drop between banal generic BG2 and awful NWN is one of the fastest decline I have ever seen.

I guess after Gaider got some recognition he felt like he became too good for the "nerd crowd" and like a good little bitch started to act like a jock for revenge or something; and it's been getting pretty obvious with the way he rides social trends for popularity.
Too bad because he actually used to be an ok guy.
There's not just Gaider in Bioware you know... Luke Kristjanson is there even longer (he's the guy who wrote first BG) and Walters, Laidlaw (he was a writer prior to his designer position), Weekes etc. are there for 10/almost 10 years... They all decided that they want to submit to their current audience and also make player feel like a Boy Scout and the Greatest hero of all time and you can tell they really encourage players to take that route... BUT, as I said, they also never explored the alternative roads so thoroughly and thoughtfully as they did in their latest games. Renegade Shepard/violent ruthless and egoistic Hawke make much more sense than any bad player character from their previous games. I can't help but see :incline: at least in this department. I realised this after playing some of their older games now - I guess nostalgia clouded my judgment before...
 

Varnaan

Augur
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Yes
There's not just Gaider in Bioware you know... Luke Kristjanson is there even longer (he's the guy who wrote first BG) and Walters, Laidlaw (he was a writer prior to his designer position), Weekes etc. are there for 10/almost 10 years... They all decided that they want to submit to their current audience and also make player feel like a Boy Scout and the Greatest hero of all time and you can tell they really encourage players to take that route... BUT, as I said, they also never explored the alternative roads so thoroughly and thoughtfully as they did in their latest games. Renegade Shepard/violent ruthless and egoistic Hawke make much more sense than any bad player character from their previous games. I can't help but see :incline: at least in this department. I realised this after playing some of their older games now - I guess nostalgia clouded my judgment before...

I'm not going to deny the first Mass Effect and Dragon Age were a step in the right direction on that point, don't know about DA2 because I was so burnt out by how bad some parts of Origins were (gameplay wise) that I couldn't stomach playing this one; and as DU pointed out in the Codex Review the C&C of DA:O was alright (I'm more moderate than he is) and definitely the high point of the game, and I definitely know that there are a few of the ancients of Bioware still left at the studio but my criticism of Gaider is to be taken as a broad generalization that applies to most of them.
The talent is not absent from the studio but it's been leaking for a while, a good example is how Drew Karpyshyn, responsible for the Mass Effect 1 universe and writing left boat and how the subsequent game(s) took a dive into the absurd.

I can't help thinking the hand of EA, who claims to be the most socially progressive video games publisher, is no stranger to all that, as the guys from DICE seem to be pulling the same bullshit.
 
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