1eyedking The descriptive text in Planescape would be considered bad writing by novelists

[Safav Hamon]

The descriptive text in Planescape would also be considered bad writing by novelists. Opening descriptions of a character shouldn't exceed one brief sentence; one and a half at most. Prefacing the introduction of a character with several successive sentences of description is clunky writing. It's also clunky to use several adjectives successively, I.E "strikingly beautiful ghostly form." Another problem is how the writer describes physical actions after descriptions of physical appearances. The reason why this is uncommon is because authors are trying to create the illusion of a 'moving' world, whereas this approach makes it seem like time is frozen while the protagonist is making his observations.

"She stirs slightly and her eyes flicker, a striking ghostly form with long flowing hair, arms crossed and eyes closed." - That's how a traditional writer would of done it.

 

[Trashos]

The thing is that at the point where Deionarra is reached, one probably wishes that there was even more to read about her. I know I did. Probably many others did as well, otherwise the game wouldn't be the classic it is.

Not saying that MCA can't overdo it as well, but he usually doesn't. Probably because he understands the player's motivations better. Otoh, when the Obsidian team uses descriptive text, it is like watching an introvert go to the bar for the first time and try to flirt based on some youtube guideline video. Nothing works.

Anyway, I tried to be more detailed in my previous post. That said, a videogame is a very different medium than a book, and I have no idea if I 'd enjoy MCA's novels (which I have never read, don't know if his style remains the same and if it works in that medium).

 

[Safav Hamon]

Chris is very bright and creative, but I don't need to read his wikipedia page to know he has never taken a writing class in his life. His work is plagued with basic technical errors.

 

[fantadomat]

Chris is very bright and creative, but I don't need to read his wikipedia page to know he has never taken a writing class in his life. His work is plagued with basic technical errors.

I have seen Infinitron ban retarded shitposters for far less than you endless idiocy. It is really a shame that you are shilling for the same game. Still i am amazed at his dedication to approve your shitposts.

 

[santino27]

"She stirs slightly and her eyes flicker, a striking ghostly form with long flowing hair, arms crossed and eyes closed." - That's how a traditional writer would of done it.

This is also a horrible sentence. You are shoehorning a general description of the figure into a sentence about the action she is taking, and it does not work at all.

Also, "would of" isn't English. Physician, heal thyself.

 

[Safav Hamon]

The descriptive text in Planescape would also be considered bad writing by novelists. Opening descriptions of a character shouldn't exceed one brief sentence; one and a half at most. Prefacing the introduction of a character with several successive sentences of description is clunky writing. It's also clunky to use several adjectives successively, I.E "strikingly beautiful ghostly form." Another problem is how the writer describes physical actions after descriptions of physical appearances. The reason why this is uncommon is because authors are trying to create the illusion of a 'moving' world, whereas this approach makes it seem like time is frozen while the protagonist is making his observations.

"She stirs slightly and her eyes flicker, a striking ghostly form with long flowing hair, arms crossed and eyes closed." - That's how a traditional writer would of done it

Can somebody explain why this post is controversial, or is it just people fanboying for Planescape?

Everything I mentioned is considered amatuer writing, as established by the greatest writers of all time

 

[Safav Hamon]

I'm also curious how many people here read books as a hobby, have studied writing in the past, or have written something themselves.

There's a lot of discussion about what good writing is, but the fact that people would point to Planescape (which I love) as an example of good technical writing is concerning. Maybe if you never read a good novel in your life.

 

[aweigh]

I think it's safe to say that any Codexer who references PS:T as an example of good writing is doing so within the context of video games.

You can head over to the Playground and check out the Books thread if you feel the need to scrutinize random Codex member's reading tastes.

 

[Jezal_k23]

I'm also curious how many people here read books as a hobby, have studied writing in the past, or have written something themselves.

There's a lot of discussion about what good writing is, but the fact that people would point to Planescape (which I love) as an example of good technical writing is concerning. Maybe if you never read a good novel in your life.

Comparing video game writing to actual literature? Are we really doing that now?

 

[Safav Hamon]

I think it's safe to say that any Codexer who references PS:T as an example of good writing is doing so within the context of video games.

You still shouldn't use it as a comparison of what good writing is, when both examples are terrible compared to any decent literature. Does Planescape really deserve a medal for being slightly less poorly written?

 

[aweigh]

Eh, can't really compare video game writing with literature. The authorial contract is strongest in literature whereas video games are made by a team with commercial aspirations instead of artistic ones. One way in which PS:T continues to be referenced is that it's one of the rare examples of a singular authorial hand (MCA).

 

[Safav Hamon]

Comparing video game writing to actual literature? Are we really doing that now?

Planescape has reading on the level of a novel, so it's not unreasonable to hold it to the same standard as one.

 

[Urthor]

Video game writing could easily be on the level of literature. The difference isn't down to the fact it's video games, the difference is down to the fact voice acting has taken over the mainstream and that voice acted lines cannot hold a candle to actual prose.

Planescape is written about as well as one of the better class of genre scifi novel, it's not written as well as the best scifi novels or the best of mainstream literature.

Science fiction and fantasy do however put a lot of emphasis on settings and worldbuilding, to the point where I reckon mediocre prose are actually people's most enjoyed novels in a lot of cases, and vice versa. It's legitimately confusing for a lot of fans to talk about "good" scifi/fantasy writing.

 

[aweigh]

Not really though... remember that writing in video games is meant to service the game play before anything else. It is not comparable to writing a story.

EDIT: Also, VO isn't really a factor as some of the best novels have less text in them than the first Act of many RPGs if you're judging by that parameter.

EDIT x2: Also... audio-books. Lewl. JK.

 

[Urthor]

I mean Life is Strange exists which is a direct counterpoint to that idea. Gaming as a medium is like film, the overall impact is the combination of multiple different media to create an effect, that's why directing and cinematography are actually significantly different trades.

Novels and music without lyrics are arguably relic "one dimensional" mediums, where only a single medium is used in presenting an entire piece, as soon as you start blending "lyric writing," aka poetry, with actual music composition you have to start matching one art form to another art form.

Really though, keep in mind the narrative structure of a novel length piece is not the be all and end all of good writing, despite what the publishing industry implies.

The fact that financial success was tied to the novel length format pretty much since the end of serialised writing in the 19th century is a construct, you can easily write a fully scoped narrative in 1000 words or less and present that narrative in a single quest, and the prose and ideas can be presented on the level of all the most famous literary writers.

Gameplay is a portion of the overall presentation and you can revolve the story around gameplay elements as much as or as little as you want. Dungeons and dragons style RPGs I'd argue basically ignore how the combat is "actually" taking place, the accuracy mechanics don't impact the story in either way, and the story just forms bookends around "combat was successful" or "combat was failed" in the narrative structure.

 

[Urthor]

EDIT: Also, VO isn't really a factor as some of the best novels have less text in them than the first Act of many RPGs if you're judging by that parameter.

Voice over means that exposition has to be delivered as dialogue. That's huge. You can have short length prose writing, you can have long form prose writing, but 100% in dialogue writing, aka a movie script or a play, is a totally different beast.

You are changing all the tools of your writing over, instantly, all the ways you present ideas are instantly dramatically different.

 

[Trashos]

I think it's safe to say that any Codexer who references PS:T as an example of good writing is doing so within the context of video games.

You still shouldn't use it as a comparison of what good writing is, when both examples are terrible compared to any decent literature. Does Planescape really deserve a medal for being slightly less poorly written?

In the words of Milan Kundera (but from memory), artists should serve, take advantage of, and push the boundaries of the medium they are working with. I do not think that Gabriel Garcia Marquez would necessarily be attractive as a videogame writer or that any Kubrick's movie would make a good book. However, both Marquez and Kubrick were masters of the medium they were using.

PST has the best videogame writing I have ever seen, drew me in and had me constantly asking for more, while playing with existential/philosophical themes and my exploratory urges. What more could I ask for?

 

[Safav Hamon]

Video game writing could easily be on the level of literature.

I absolutely believe that writing in videogames can be just as good as literature. Maybe even better.

The reason why it sucks is because we settle for the lowest possible standards. Why not demand companies hire popular authors instead of idolizing people with no formal writing experience?

 

[Urthor]

It doesn't suck because we settle for low standards, it sucks because most people will always choose a fully voice medium without all this reading business their high school forced on them and prefer playing those games. Sitting 9 feet away from a television doesn't help.

When the talent for the industry is split between effectively playwrights and prose writers and the split is 90/10 it's no surprise the prose writing quality isn't as financially rewarding and the talent pool is low.

Hollywood has always revolved around the pay good money for good scripts setup, that's why they have excellent script writers in television and film. Do good work get paid, and that's despite the fact the education system trains 10 prose writers for every playwright/film dialogue writer due to the nature of high school and university fine arts courses.

And that's before the issues mainstream scifi/fantasy have are gone into, there's a reason speculative fiction is a genre and why many people turn their noses up at "genre writers" in horror/scifi/fantasy. That nerd culture vs literary culture debate personified by Ian M. Banks also has a downstream impact on games.

 

[Safav Hamon]

PST has the best videogame writing I have ever seen, drew me in and had me constantly asking for more, while playing with existential/philosophical themes and my exploratory urges. What more could I ask for?

Planescape has my favorite story and one of my favorite settings in a videogame, but the writing structure would make Tolkien roll in his grave.

Betrayal at Krondor has far better technical writing than Planescape, even though Raymond Feist is a middling author in real life.

 

[aweigh]

Eh, video game writing encompasses more than the technical and literary: a game with good writing is a game where the writing informs the game play and the game play informs the writing. A game like Zelda can have good writing, and so can a game like PS:T.

 

[Trash Player]

The descriptive text in Planescape would also be considered bad writing by novelists. Opening descriptions of a character shouldn't exceed one brief sentence; one and a half at most. Prefacing the introduction of a character with several successive sentences of description is clunky writing. It's also clunky to use several adjectives successively, I.E "strikingly beautiful ghostly form." Another problem is how the writer describes physical actions after descriptions of physical appearances. The reason why this is uncommon is because authors are trying to create the illusion of a 'moving' world, whereas this approach makes it seem like time is frozen while the protagonist is making his observations.

"She stirs slightly and her eyes flicker, a striking ghostly form with long flowing hair, arms crossed and eyes closed." - That's how a traditional writer would of done it

Can somebody explain why this post is controversial, or is it just people fanboying for Planescape?

Everything I mentioned is considered amatuer writing, as established by the greatest writers of all time

I think the intended audience is everything for any media. PS:T was written by a young male nerd with a resemblance of intellectual aspiration for younger male nerds with an appreciation for resemblances of intellectual aspiration. Your writing is too generalist for this purpose.

 

[FreeKaner]

Writing works differently in an interactive medium. In games like RPGs there is a lot to be taken from books though, like how to give motion to prose for one and how to fluidly deliver expression in another.

 

[MF]

Betrayal at Krondor has far better technical writing than Planescape, even though Raymond Feist is a middling author in real life.

Betrayal at Krondor was written by Neal Hallford, Feist had nothing to do with it. Besides, it's not really a fair comparison because BaK is written in a strictly literary prose style, mimicking a book even down to calling a savegame a 'bookmark'.

 

[Lilura]

Planescape has reading on the level of a novel, so it's not unreasonable to hold it to the same standard as one.

Please go and read an actual novel, written by a novelist.