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The Death of Immersive Sims?

Mynon

Dumbfuck!
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Apr 28, 2017
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I thought Hitman episodes and Prey were pretty well-received here. They're no Absolution or Bioshock.

The Prey thread is like a bizarro universe right now. All sorts of edgelords including at least one literal neo-nazi debating whether System Shock 2 is actually inferior to Prey
It is kinda hilarious, seeing these bubbles in which some folks have placed themselves in action. Not only do they know nothing of games they are attacking, they refuse to even acknowledge the majority opinion of them withing the very community they're posting in.

Right now, one "Taka-Haradin puolipeikko" is spending his time by downvoting my weeks old comments in the Prey thread. Of course, fact that comments made by other users, many of them with far longer career here, share my exact sentiments is escaping him.
 

Luckmann

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That's why you have to keep your old rigs. Just in case. We all know that the future of PC gaming lies in Steam Link. Your games will be stored in a cloud, and just streamed through Steam Link onto your TV.
To be fair, it's entirely possible to buy or set up a USB floppy disk or CD-player. The problem, really, is that CD:s (and to a lesser degree DVD:s) are starting to degrade. Depending on the quality, the average CD-R has a life-expectancy of only 10 years, so odds are that a lot of us have games in our libraries that are already fucking dead. Some producers have claimed that theirs won't degrade until ~100 years, but either way, most CD:s are going to die somewhere in that timespan.

It's not digitization that's the issue, really, anyway. GOG has been fine, perfect, even, and provided you don't fuck up your storage, it'll last practically forever, especially if you keep backing shit up, and since it's DRM free with independent installers, there's no issues. The problem is a matter of services and practices. Steam by itself is a form of DRM just by virtue that you have to install via it, and that doesn't even take all the web-based bullshit into account, whether we're talking enforced online modes or exclusive content. That's what's going to fuck up backwards compatibility and replayability down the line. The floppies and CD:s are, much like our mortal coils, already doomed.
 

Severian Silk

Guest
I haven't paid full price for a video game since ToEE and Homeworld 2. And I don't pirate. Not sure if I'm hurting this "Golden Age", considering I have and never had any interest in Prey, Dishonoured, BioShock, etc. etc.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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The problem, really, is that CD:s (and to a lesser degree DVD:s) are starting to degrade. Depending on the quality, the average CD-R has a life-expectancy of only 10 years, so odds are that a lot of us have games in our libraries that are already fucking dead. Some producers have claimed that theirs won't degrade until ~100 years, but either way, most CD:s are going to die somewhere in that timespan.

The first CD-R I burned in February 2000 still works. The bottom looks kinda odd though and of course I've already copied the files elsewhere.

I'm a bit more concerned about dual layer dvds because those things are dead if/when the glue separates.
 

ghostdog

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If this article was written in 2004 following the release of Thief 3 and Deus Ex 2, two OK-ish games that were unfortunately much worse than their predecessors, dumbed down with consolitis, signaling the premature end of the immersive sims, then yeah this article would have merit.
 

bataille

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Don't let golden era games die.
geghome.jpg
 

octavius

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Also, games are dirt cheap these days.

If you have more patience than a 4 year old waiting for new toys on Christmas eve/day, and are able to muster the super human willpower to wait until the game leaves Beta phase and is fully patched in the virtual bargain bin.

And even at full price, games are cheaper now than 20-30 years ago, not taking inflation into account.
 
Joined
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Messages
1,020
You're not taking account of DLC, season passes and all that nickle and diming horse shit, which adds another 10 or 20 bucks to the cost of the game.
 

Mynon

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If this article was written in 2004 following the release of Thief 3 and Deus Ex 2, two OK-ish games that were unfortunately much worse than their predecessors, dumbed down with consolitis, signaling the premature end of the immersive sims, then yeah this article would have merit.
I do hope that you are not arguing for Invisible War being superior to Prey or Dishonored, or to latest Deus Ex games for that matter.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
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Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,164
I thought Hitman episodes and Prey were pretty well-received here. They're no Absolution or Bioshock.

The Prey thread is like a bizarro universe right now. All sorts of edgelords including at least one literal neo-nazi debating whether System Shock 2 is actually inferior to Prey
It is kinda hilarious, seeing these bubbles in which some folks have placed themselves in action. Not only do they know nothing of games they are attacking, they refuse to even acknowledge the majority opinion of them withing the very community they're posting in.

Right now, one "Taka-Haradin puolipeikko" is spending his time by downvoting my weeks old comments in the Prey thread. Of course, fact that comments made by other users, many of them with far longer career here, share my exact sentiments is escaping him.

You have shit, popamole taste Mynon. Even if by some strange miracle Prey is actually as great as a System Shock that wouldn't go to your credit because you would have been proven right accidentally, not because you actually know what the fuck you are talking about. Derphonored, nu-Deux Ex, they are all dumped down garbage the only redeeming quality of which is that they are not as dumped down as the rest of the shit that's out today. Big fucking deal.

The very fact somebody like you likes the game already makes me suspicious that Prey is actually that good. Not saying that isn't it, but your endorsement works against the game, rather than in favor of it.
 

Mynon

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It obviously has nothing alongside such classic masterpieces like Deus Ex Invisible War. How can any of those games that are discussed herein ever hope to compare.
 

Somberlain

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Is Mynon the new game industry shill that Codex neither deserves or needs right now? It's like everything he posts is about bashing gaming community & consumers and defending shit devs and publishers.
 

Burning Bridges

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk
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I haven't paid full price for a video game since ToEE and Homeworld 2. And I don't pirate. Not sure if I'm hurting this "Golden Age", considering I have and never had any interest in Prey, Dishonoured, BioShock, etc. etc.

Of course, because they are no real games. If I watch a gameplay video and the first thing it contains is cinematics and retarded face expressions, I already know that I dont want the game.

Suck it up thats how biased I am.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
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Messages
56,164
It obviously has nothing alongside such classic masterpieces like Deus Ex Invisible War. How can any of those games that are discussed herein ever hope to compare.

You are shit at red herrings bro.
 

Neanderthal

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Cunts at RPS are a bit late even for them aren't they? I mean immersive sims have had one foot in grave almost since their inception, mainly cos on all modern streamlinin an handholdin wedged in that smacks directly against exploratory nature on em.
 
Joined
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Messages
1,020
You're not taking account of DLC, season passes and all that nickle and diming horse shit, which adds another 10 or 20 bucks to the cost of the game.

Only retards buy all that shit. And if you're smart you wait with the DLC until it's on sale.
Now you're moving the goal posts, and by that logic if you're really smart why even buy the damn game in the first place when you can get a 100% discount by pirating it?
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
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Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
That's why you have to keep your old rigs. Just in case. We all know that the future of PC gaming lies in Steam Link. Your games will be stored in a cloud, and just streamed through Steam Link onto your TV.

That future will not arrive within our lifetimes, and likely never at all. Neither the technology nor physical infrastructure are even close to what doing this at scale requires, and even if they were, it would likely not be very economical to begin with. Dumb executives with no understanding of their own business domain may think they can build the Netflix of gaming, but reality gives zero fucks.

The Prey thread is like a bizarro universe right now. All sorts of edgelords including at least one literal neo-nazi debating whether System Shock 2 is actually inferior to Prey

What in the world does this supposed neo-nazism have to do with comparing SS2 to Prey?
 

Severian Silk

Guest
That's why you have to keep your old rigs. Just in case. We all know that the future of PC gaming lies in Steam Link. Your games will be stored in a cloud, and just streamed through Steam Link onto your TV.

That future will not arrive within our lifetimes, and likely never at all. Neither the technology nor physical infrastructure are even close to what doing this at scale requires, and even if they were, it would likely not be very economical to begin with. Dumb executives with no understanding of their own business domain may think they can build the Netflix of gaming, but reality gives zero fucks.
With the end of net neutrality, Steam Link will be dead in the water too, at least in the US.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,871
Honestly this fucking 'immersive sim' bullshit is triggering me. No one ever used that terminology, ever, back in the day. The games themselves are not 'sims'. Who the fuck came up with this garbage?

re: the article, it's pretty bad. Author seems happy to play inferior re-treads of superior games that in no way push possibilities forward. Sounds like he wasn't around in the mid-late 90s and has no idea of what exciting new games treading new ground actually means, because there hasn't been one in forever.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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Honestly this fucking 'immersive sim' bullshit is triggering me. No one ever used that terminology, ever, back in the day. The games themselves are not 'sims'. Who the fuck came up with this garbage?

Warren Spector in his Deus Ex post-mortem. They are in fact trying to simulate worlds.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
It's likely that the term "immersive sim" was used internally at Looking Glass some time before that, probably coined by Doug Church.

Its modern popularity is a result of Arkane's marketing efforts and a more literate gaming journalism field.
 

Paul_cz

Arcane
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
1,996
It's likely that the term "immersive sim" was used internally at Looking Glass some time before that, probably coined by Doug Church.

Its modern popularity is a result of Arkane's marketing efforts and a more literate gaming journalism field.
I remember reading an interview somewhere and yeah, that term goes back to 90s and Doug Church at Looking Glass.
Embarassing that some people on the codex are triggered by this.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Well it does sound kind of pretentious. "FPS/RPG" was how I thought about them back in the day, except there was also Thief so it was kind of murky.
 

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