From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

[Grimlorn]

Well I don't know if this is the case, but they changed it in DS3. You now have to be online in steam to get red npc phantoms to invade you while game is offline. They may have done something similar with DS2. Not sure.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

There are 3 sets of NPC invaders: ones you always get, ones that are semi-random (Forlorn et al), and ones that only appear when you play offline to make up for lack of PvP invasions. Not sure about Guthry and Usurper, but Rhoy is definitely part of that last set. Do you normally play offline and haven't been this time?

On my first run, yes. After getting invaded a bunch in DS1 on my first run when I still had no idea what to do, I decided to save the frustration and play offline for my first DS2 run.
Not that it matters; the online play for the original DS2 is barren. White ghosts, a couple of white phantoms and not much else. I think I got invaded once by a person in the 15 hours I've played so far on my new character.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

There is no DS2 hate circle jerk, you just refuse to believe that people don't like DS2 as much as DS

It's not that they don't like DS 2 as much as DaS (I'd be fine with that), it's more that a lot of people regurgitate same fucking arguments and issues (MUH PERFECT DaS HITBOXES, B TEAM), which were debunked billion times already. And with this bias and typical internet smugness idiocy is born.

You conveniently forgot
- actually decent & cohesive world building with sensible progression
- variety of enemies and bosses that are relevant to the area
- not a complete fucking crawl to progress through

Objectively, DS2 has better mechanics for online play and allows for a lot more playstyles but it's a fucking boring samey slogfest. Also, as a sidenote, about a year ago, when I went back again to try to get through SOTSF, DS1 still had more players than both vanilla and SOTSF versions COMBINED.

Nowadays it's gonna be about the same after the sale I gather.

Also, I still can't forgive the downgrades having played press demo firsthand in 2013. Fucking shameful men.

 

[Seaking4]

You found Dark Souls II PVP samey? That does not match up at all with my own experiences. I had a blast pvp'ing in that game. It's a shame about soul memory though. It was 50% of a good idea but made the kind of PVP'ing in the open world kind of hard to get right (and that's by far the most fun to me).

I kind of rate Dark Souls 1 and 2 at about the same level. Although I do genuinely think they are hard games to compare because they each have these ridiculous peaks and valleys in terms of quality but I do agree with you 100% that Dark Souls 1 is much better in the world building and enemy relevance to the area. I was replaying the game the other day (not really playing but just running around and doing random shit) and it's remarkable how well put together everything up to (and including) Sen's Fortress is.

Anyways, here is Dark Souls 1 vs 2 (+SOTFS) in player count over the last year http://steamcharts.com/cmp/236430,211420,335300#1y . I don't think this really means anything but you mentioned it so here you go. I'm surprised that Dark Souls 1 is doing that well.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

No, PVP is fine and pretty much the only reason to ever touch it again but the game itself is a slog.

 

[Arnust]

Also, as a sidenote, about a year ago, when I went back again to try to get through SOTSF, DS1 still had more players than both vanilla and SOTSF versions COMBINED.

Yeah, but matchmaking is so fucking awful you find around 1000% more people in 2 than in DSCM-less DS1. Online being on while hollow helps.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

Also, as a sidenote, about a year ago, when I went back again to try to get through SOTSF, DS1 still had more players than both vanilla and SOTSF versions COMBINED.

Yeah, but matchmaking is so fucking awful you find around 1000% more people in 2 than in DSCM-less DS1. Online being on while hollow helps.

Soul Memory effectively blocks you from getting any action in DS2 unless you hit those magical meta numbers

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

What are the meta numbers? I think I'm around 80000

 

[RatTower]

Playing through Dark Souls 2 I always thought it was the closest to King's Field atmosphere-wise. Especially with the underground cemetery and the story in general.
I always wondered if others felt the same. Apparently some people do:

 

[praetor]

Also, as a sidenote, about a year ago, when I went back again to try to get through SOTSF, DS1 still had more players than both vanilla and SOTSF versions COMBINED.

Yeah, but matchmaking is so fucking awful you find around 1000% more people in 2 than in DSCM-less DS1. Online being on while hollow helps.

Soul Memory effectively blocks you from getting any action in DS2 unless you hit those magical meta numbers

while i still think SM is one colossal piece of shit, and easily the worst mechanic ever implemented in a Souls game, they tweaked the SM tiers a lot since release and now it's not as bad. plus, there's that ring that stops you from accumulating souls, and if you only care about PvP, the arenas are primarily SL based

 

[Gentle Player]

Playing through Dark Souls 2 I always thought it was the closest to King's Field atmosphere-wise. Especially with the underground cemetery and the story in general.
I always wondered if others felt the same. Apparently some people do:

Actually yes, you're right. I've thought the same. Not about Dark Souls II as a whole, but parts of it certainly. The Emerald Herald, woman in green who guides the player, ultimately leading him to the Ancient Dragon, brings to mind the green fairy in the original King's Field: woman in green that guides the player and leads him to the stony dragon that gives you the Moonlight sword. I also thought that the great doors unlocked with the King's ring were reminiscent of the ancient doors unlocked in KF1 with the Dragon sword. Then there's the King's Passage prior to Looking Glass Knight which clearly apes the King's Way in KF4, right down to the flashes of lightning. And of course there's the Sunken City DLC which channels the spirit of KF4's ancient city. Mytha's appearance was taken directly from an enemy in KF3. There are probably quite a few more things as well.

 

[Deflowerer]

Wonder if it's due to Naotoshi Zin, since he is credited as Lead Game Designer on DSII. He founded FromSoft and while no specific roles are given in KF credits, I would assume that at least with the early KF games, he was also the designer. And at least according to MobyGames, DSII is one of the few games after early KF games where he is not simply a supervisor on a project.

 

[Black Angel]

Been a long time since I have some quality ENB's Souls content.

 

[Arnust]

Ah yes, his bitchthrough

I wonder if he'll click with it somewhere, lore or gameplay wise. My money is in that he won't, though.

 

[Zlaja]

ENB is like that thing that was cool back in high school.

 

[Black Angel]

Ah yes, his bitchthrough

I wonder if he'll click with it somewhere, lore or gameplay wise. My money is in that he won't, though.

Arnust, pls. I know you're DS2's fanboy, but I don't know you're THAT much of a fanboy. Did you even watch it till the end? He's actually enjoying himself because of the new enemy placement and such. If he's really only bitching he would have stop and not even uploaded that video on Youtube.

ENB is like that thing that was cool back in high school.

He's still cool to me. I don't know about you, but his LPs are the best, especially From the Dark series which is probably the best LP of a Souls game. He's been doing it many times, but FtD is the most polished LP of all. He's not doing Souls content anymore because even 3 is p. bad (plus there's already so many LPs and Lore videos on Youtube, which is why he didn't bother making anything similar with Bloodborne).

 

[Arnust]

Black Angel, I'm watching it live as it goes. Another as I speak. I know he's trying to enjoy himself, but it's a moan fest and you can't possibly deny that.

Ain't even reading them descriptions

I'm just watching for the possibilty of him to stop being a DS1 fanboy, 'asically :D

Really though. He's not giving the kind of attention he gave to the games. This LP is as good as Best Friends play or any streamer ever, really.

 

[Arnust]

"I don't know guys, but every session I'm having more and more fun" We might be on a lead here!

Btw, this podcast's pretty good. http://www.bonfireside.chat/123

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

DS1 is objectively better.

 

[Arnust]

 

[Zlaja]

In terms of actual gameplay DS II is the best souls game. The other aspects of the game are all over the place.

 

[praetor]

DS1 is objectively better.

i disagree. i think that DS1 is the superior package, the best experience, by far. it's the flawed masterpiece kind of game the codex so dearly loves (like Arcanum or Bloodlines), while DS2 is objectively the superior game (i.e. in a purely mechanical sense) in almost every way. a DS1 "remaster" (with pre Lord Vessel stuff mostly untouched architecturally [i wouldn't mind some extra areas], and the post-ones expanded and fixed and done properly) with DS2 mechanics and netcode, in DS3/BB graphical engine would be amazing. it could be the best game ever

 

[Teut Busnet]

In terms of actual gameplay DS II is the best souls game. The other aspects of the game are all over the place.

Hitting someone feels far less satisfying though - possibly because many enemies have so high poise that they don't get staggered at all.

Also the weapon's movesets look often quite silly. Hitting with the mace for example looks as if your char is bowling (don't know why it is such a popular weapon).

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

DS2 does indeed have the better base mechanics. Its just that as a souls game it falls flat, as it's barely cohesive with the rest of the DS lore and its level design and overall approach to difficulty feels at odds with it's predecessor.
If it were a standalone game that wasn't part of the series (and it should have been. Souls was not intended to have a sequel), then it would have been received a lot better I think.

A DS remaster would be nice, but I don't want it to be a graphical update. Otherwise it will look too much like DS3, and I want DS1 to look like DS1. Will it look like crap by today's standards? Probably. But at least it will be recognizable.
Really, they just need to improve lost izalith, post lord-vessal, make the endgame bosses less of a bitch (Oooh Seathe. How's it feeel to be a bitch?), improve ingame M+KB controls and use the rolling formula from DS2 and onwards. They don't have to rebuild everything.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Since we're talking about a DS1 remaster, I would actually like them to base the Nito fight on the Skeleton lords fight, which I felt did the lord of the dead thing a bit better.
Rather than making Nito an oversized necromancer with his posse of skeletons, it should be like this -

- Fight starts with just Nito
- However, when you damage him enough, a piece of him breaks off forming a larger skeleton. This can happen several times.
- Killing this skeleton will create more skeletons. Destroying these skeletons get rid of them.
- But if you take too long, Nito will absorb the pieces back into himself, healing him.
- Nito can also call forth skeletons from the arena, which can attack you and fuse with Nito, healing him.

That should represent the concept of Nito being an amalgamation of skeletons and of lord of the dead a bit better.
It also makes it much harder, as he basically becomes a self-healing tank and summoner.