The BioWare and Mass Effect Thread!

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I've thought about it, and I think ME3's ending doesn't work for four main reasons.

1) It has more plot holes than the fucking Star Wars prequels. I already listed some several pages back. Basically, nothing that happens makes any goddamn sense. That's pretty much par for the course in the Mass Effect series, though.
2) It doesn't actually resolve anything aside from (maybe) the Reaper threat. There are so many lingering questions that the ending doesn't bother to resolve. It's difficult to find a sense of closure when you're left wondering what the fuck happened to the galaxy Bioware spent the entire trilogy building. And that includes the shit you do in ME3.
3) It doesn't fit at all with the tone or themes of the series. While there was a drastic tonal shift between ME1 and ME2, some things remain constant throughout the series (machines versus man, free will, cycles of war between species, old hatreds leading to conflict, etc). The ending has none of that - you're given three choices that feel like they came from an entirely different game. There's also a missing element that the previous two games had in their endings, and that's hope. Both ME1 and ME2 end on an optimistic note, with Shepard promising to take the fight to the reapers. In ME3 you get to watch Shepard die.
4) The ending (and the entire plot of ME3) revolves around a mcguffin. I haven't seen many people complain about this, even though it's a rather glaring problem. Rather than resolve the reaper threat in a credible way, they pull out a magic plot device from nowhere that isn't alluded to in any way in the previous two games and suddenly it's the key for solving everything. Not only is this incredibly lazy writing, it's also dishonest as fuck after someone at Bioware basically promised they wouldn't do exactly what they did, resolving the series with a cheap plot device (I can't find the quote right now).

Catalyst: I have destroyed more civilizations than there are cells in your bo-

Shepard: Racism is bad, mmmmmkay?

Catalyst:

Shepard:

HAHAHAHAHAQ L0L

I agree with the first part, but while the tone shift in ME2 was a glaring flaw to begin with the game still managed to retain some of the themes (Xor listed them nicely) and most carry over with an even stronger sense into ME3. And there's the fact that the entire trilogy is still space opera; ME2 is less epic SO than ME1 but it still has most of the cliches in there, even if it takes them into Grimdark territory. The problem with the ME3 ending is that it's not just a departure, or a shift, or darker; it's a COMPLETELY unrelated genre. It's like getting to the Fortress of Regrets in PST and having it suddenly replaced by the finale of Day of the Tentacle. And there's nothing pseudo-scientific about the ending either (though I fully agree with you about the nonsense), which is also part of the problem; most of the trilogy is indeed that, but the ending is instead this pseudo-philosophical crap with the Catalyst-as--child imagery, the whole blabla about synthetics killing organics so they are saved from this by the creation of a synthetic race that regularly kills all organics (I mean... seriously? didn't anyone at Bioware actually READ this shit before they finalized it?), and then the 3 virtually identical choices that are dropped in your lap and have nothing to do with anything and then the Normandy crashes on this planet in the middle of nowhere after picking up your squadmates who were shot down by Harbinger and... what?

In some ways I agree, and I probably shouldn't have said the previous games had any "vision" (this was already shown quite well with ME2, as you implied). What I meant was more that the previous games still clung to the space opera journey; different aspects of space opera perhaps. ME1 was the epic "save the galaxy" cliche, ME2 was a more personal "gather the space Dirty Dozen", and ME3 kinda brought back the epic save the galaxy from ME1 coupled with space (anti)-racism and "why can't we just get along?" and akk the typical idealism associated with space opera; and of course Shepard is DA (WO)MAN, Shepard SAVES THE DAY! And then all this completely vanishes as soon as Harbinger hits you (and then HE vanishes, but that's another problem) and you get a plot resolution that resolves a different plot from the one we've seen so far.

Again I'm not arguing that any of the previous stuff was good or not. Just that everything up to then was space opera generica of one type or another, whether more or less grimdark. And then the ending is not even remotely space opera. It's like the old BSG series getting the resolution from the new one grafted onto it. It's jarring even if you're not a fan of the series (and thank god I'm not, otherwise I would be raging).

Yeah, I get what you mean. Rather than vision or spirit, the themes of the plot appear to be abandoned in the final 10 minutes in favour of writing really stupid shit. But it's hard for me to say that they depart from the genre entirely because it still feels like sci-fi to me, just really poorly done sci-fi. At this point we're just nitpicking over the details though. As far as the themes go, I think they have tried to fulfil them, so I'd argue that it's not that they threw away all the cliches altogether, they just utterly failed at writing them.

Here's how I think it goes:

Destroy ending: Reapers cannot be reasoned with, have to be destroyed. That's acceptable to me, not everything can be talked away. But you also destroy the geth. If a player just went through the quarian missions by resolving it peacefully, they're likely not to pick this option because synthetics & organics have proven to be able to peacefully coexist. However, a player that brings a pro-organic slant (destroying the geth) will not have those qualms. The choice is there; just by providing the choice doesn't mean they abandon the theme. It's entirely possible to play a Shepard that doesn't trust synthetics and never will. Here Shepard saves the day, and he survives at the end if you get enough assets. The writers probably think of this as a renegade choice.

Control ending: Shepard gives up his humanity, attempts to control Reapers. It apparently works for the first time ever in galactic history. Shepard again saves the day, and he ascends in the process. He's been partially synthetic since the second game. If the writers were better they'd have implied more internal conflict within Shepard about being cybernetically enhanced, accepting that he is partially synthetic, and furthermore the quarian plot as well as EDI's conversations teach him that synthetics & organics can coexist. And thus he decides to force that message on the Reapers. Rather than literally controlling the Reapers, this could be Shepard pulling a Legion: disseminating his intelligence throughout the consensus and teaching them peace is possible.

Synthesis ending: Well, this one is all out 'synthetics & organics merge and live happily ever after'. Again, I wouldn't say it breaks away from the themes since the writers appear to be trying to convey that exact message. I'd say that the idealism and hope for the future was very heavy with this ending. Despite Shepard not being there anymore (probably), everything else in the galaxy can probably live happily ever after or something as cyborgs. I never thought of they focused on portraying the machine/man conflict as there to be only overcome by having them settle down and be good neighbours. Rather, they seemed to be pushing the idea that both synthetics and organics were alive (having souls, so to speak), and by literally merging the two it demonstrated they were compatible lifeforms, one and the same. We turn again to the quarian/geth plot, where Reaper-infected geth units had a very organic-looking network. All together, all alive.

Shepard saves the day in all three, but likely doesn't come back as he/she was, or at all. I think of this as the idealistic/hope part being transferred to the galaxy as a whole. Shepard is special, but couldn't have done it without everyone's aid. So even though Shepard is dead, the galaxy now has hope. Shepard has accomplished what he set out to do since the first game. It was never about him coming back alive, it was about saving the galaxy. They continually emphasise how Shepard throws himself into danger and should have died, over and over. But if he had died at those points, he wouldn't have done what he really wanted to do; save everyone. And if his death means he would save everyone for good, it's clear he'd do it. Breaking that streak at the end isn't abandoning the theme, it is fulfilling it. In my opinion, of course.

I think the endings they came up with can be drawn from the plot itself (or really, just from the geth), but it was just poorly written and not given any real thought - or any thought at all, particularly when it came to presenting the end sequence. Of course, I'm giving the writers the benefit of the doubt by calling their magic synthesis beam pseudo-scientific, since I'm sure they had... something... in mind, when they thought that up.

If we are to assume they were short on time, it still shows incompetence the moment you compare it to KoTOR2. That game rushed its ending, left several gaping holes, but still managed to tie its main plot together in a clear manner.

And holy fuck did I just wall of text trying to defend Bioware writing. The fuck did I corner myself into doing?

eh even though ME3 had fucking stupid endings I didn't really find them that jarring because lol y u take ME3 seriously? r00fles.

http://www.gamefront.com/rumor-mass-effect-3-dlc-the-truth-due-in-april/

Highlighted what I believe is the key word.

It's a shame they only rage on the ending tbh. I'd much rather they raged at the story.

-Reapers sit around and make tactically stupid decisions, hardly the most advanced AI's currently in the galaxy.
-Cerberus making a heel-face-heel turn from game 1 to 3. Illusive man wasn't featured in 1, but Martin Sheen gave him style so can forgive them for it. However, ME3 has him acting out of character like a madman. TIM was rather smart, so I find it odd he'd be stupid enough to get close enough to Reaper tech to be indoctrinated. Hell, that's what he has his staff for.
-You're railroaded into the Quarian-geth war, although that might be realistic because I'd like to think Sheps isn't as important as BSN thinks he is. Would be fun if they actually acknowledged it in game at least "We heard your advice, but after laughing about it for a while we discarded it."
-30 minutes into the game you get handed a macguffin to defeat the reapers. That's some ace storytelling right there.
-Did I mention the reapers are idiots yet? You can't build them up for 2 games as the most evil ultimate engines of destruction only to have them have the tactical understanding of a 2-year old schoolgirl.
-Not using the world elements to its fullest extent. Hell, Javik tells you about that time he had to kill off his crew because they were indoctrinated. Might have been a nice element for the Sheps as well. A few scenes where your ship gets sabotaged and you have to whodunnit to figure out who is the perpetrator. Should allow you to pick the wrong one as well, so you can end up a paranoid madman killing most of their companions.

I'm sure I can think up more stuff, but seriously, the ending is hardly the worst thing about the game from a narratological standpoint.

Aside from the intro and the end It feels almost like ME1 where the reapers are just a distant threat. They are indeed stupid as fuck in the game when you DO see them. They didn't do anything about the citadel until the very end and the few times you face them they only send those ground variants one at a time after Shepard.

TIM who's now some CONTROL AND POWAH caricature gives the impression that HE is the main villain.

Personally I would have highlighted "rumor". I hope I am not the only one here that thinks "You're welcome." is better not Biowares attitude. If I were a Biodrone I would consider all that as the MINIMUM NECESSARY so that Bioware can START getting my trust back. It is not a favor for the fans it is damage control.

They have been in an abusive relationship for years now. If they haven't jumped ship yet, we'll see them stumbling around for years to come. Their bruises will be hidden by turtleneck sweaters, and their black eyes will be explained by "walking into a door." It's sad, poignant and strangely soothing to see it play out like this. All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.

It would be glorious if they attempted to charge for that shit....

Blue ending is best ending

Or if they reveal they planned all of it that way, which I really hope they didn't, because that would be so utterly mindfuckingly stupid.

They cant dig themselves out of this one either way. Well... they do have one of the most retarded audiences that would take anything just to take the pain away and salvage their emotional investment into that shit.
I meant to say it would be glorious to see repercussions ... although these last dozen or two pages already provided me with a hefty dose of healthy lulz.

ME3 is failing even more now, in my eyes, than its predecessor (ME2) when it comes to a replay.

In ME3, over 80% of the cutscenes (and by cutscenes I mean the pre-rendered ones along with the in-game acshun scenes) are not skippable, even in the so called Action Mode, which makes coming back to the game for simply popping some moles an annoyance.

So, in a nutshell, BiowarEA not only failed at telling their own story, but they also failed in every other regard. From mediocre to shit to worst than Gamebryo animations, with terribly looking graphics (ME2 didn't look this bad), and on top of all that it's even inferior to CoD, the very game they wanted to achieve similar gameplay and pacing, because it fails at being an action game.

The inane DA2 style fetch quests make it a great annoyance to replay for OCD completionists like myself too.

I dont know...i barely made it through to the end of the first, laughing my ass off at the stupidity of it. Tried demo of M2, and i mean the real demo because i coudnt be bothered to get the full version at all and :rofl deleted: it after one mission (the one where you get jack i think).
reading these pages here was more fun than any of it.

Heh, just checked out Amazon ratings for ME3. 2-3 stars? Nice.

Trashy Swedish Tabloid apparently compares playing Mass Effect with rape (being violated), BSN acts like BSN. Lulz aplently.

Guy rages against Swedish article, insults Swedes (looking racist in the process).



Thread spirals into a debate that would make Andhaira proud (getting raped or kicked in the nuts so that you can't have children, which is better and why? DISCUSS!).

THEN we get a legal debate as to whether "rape" is an appropriately legal way to describe Mass Effect 3.

THEN it goes off in some weird direction I don't care to get into.

The op said that 4 hours ago and the whole thing has been END OF RHINE'd and the op has been DING DONG BANNU'd yet?

Priestly the Hut and Stanry Roo are losing their touchM:

The amount of stupid in that thread is truly breath-taking.

It doesn't even do that, it's just citing some fan's reaction. The concept of a quote is apparently too hard to understand for some.

And the review you all have been waiting for:

http://angryjoeshow.com/2012/03/mass-effect-3-angry-review-2/

Let me sum it up the structure of the review: rage - bioware licking - rage and despite all the negatives, a good score.

I like how this is considered "appropriate discussion" on the BioWare Social Network while threads and posts that criticize the game are locked, deleted, and their posters banned.