Bard's Tale The Bard's Tale Series

[octavius]

It seems I'm stuck in the Grey Tower of the Ice Keep in BT3.

The clue is:
Broken cross is the goal,
yet hidden it doth be.
Through the flaw egress is won,
but peril is not lost.
Win the lense,
one third you prize,
but at what cost?

The upper level is 5X5, and there is a segment of 5 squares that form a cross, that I can't enter. I've tried finding a wall piece that looks different (a "flaw"), but to no avail. Likewise just walking into the squares, and casting Phase Door from all angle or APAR'in in does not work.
There is one other square that is only accessible by APAR'ing into it, but all it contains is Darkness! and a one way way out.

Can anyone give me a subtle hint?
If not I'll just consult a not so subtle walkthrough when I get home from work.

 

[Crooked Bee]

There is one other square that is only accessible by APAR'ing into it, but all it contains is Darkness! and a one way way out.

Are you sure about that?

 

[Luzur]

There is one other square that is only accessible by APAR'ing into it, but all it contains is Darkness! and a one way way out.

Can anyone give me a subtle hint?
If not I'll just consult a not so subtle walkthrough when I get home from work.

Use your lamp or light spell for a brief glimpse.

 

[rpgcodexusername]

It seems I'm stuck in the Grey Tower of the Ice Keep in BT3.

The clue is:
Broken cross is the goal,
yet hidden it doth be.
Through the flaw egress is won,
but peril is not lost.
Win the lense,
one third you prize,
but at what cost?

The upper level is 5X5, and there is a segment of 5 squares that form a cross, that I can't enter. I've tried finding a wall piece that looks different (a "flaw"), but to no avail. Likewise just walking into the squares, and casting Phase Door from all angle or APAR'in in does not work.
There is one other square that is only accessible by APAR'ing into it, but all it contains is Darkness! and a one way way out.

Can anyone give me a subtle hint?
If not I'll just consult a not so subtle walkthrough when I get home from work.

I read that as you were playing bards tale at work
then realised its more likely that you are playing at home

 

[octavius]

He he, yes I'm playing from home and I was hoping to finish the Grey Tower before heading off for another grueling day in the salt mines.

Crooked Bee, Luzur, thanks for the tip. I guess it was the one thing I didn't think of...

 

[octavius]

Turned out that single room was a red herring.
The solution was to APAR south (using negative value) instead of north, to the north square of the cross, due to the way the level wraps.
I guess that was the flaw that resulted in a broken cross.

My party almost broke a sweat against those seven Grey Wizards.

Gelida is the most interesting world so far, with something that resembles a background story, some interesting puzzles, and small scale battles. Downside is that the bestiary is very small, so it didn't take me long to just run every time my party turned. Apparantly turning around is a huge turn on (or turn off) for monsters.

BTW, I checked the clue book for BT3. It reads like a bad LP written by a "LARPer". And it doesn't give specific info. No items lists, and details about which spells are needed to unlock the wards to the three tower of the Ice Keep, for example. Just a generic "we cast the required spells". What a rip off.

 

[octavius]

And then Gelida was done.
After the abysmal starter dungeon the game has kept getting better. Another of the few improvements from BT1 and 2 is that the dungeons are varied in size and shape, and rarely wrap upon themselves. The automap lessens the mapping challenge, though.
Encounter frequency is still insane, and I find myself forced to flee after I've mapped most of a dungeon. It's like a constant battle of my pride (I hate using the Flee option, but at least the game offers a Bard Song that guarantees it) against my sanity (the random encounter frequency is truly maddening)...

I never understood why the heroes of BT3 had to be the same guys that saved the day in BT1 and 2. It makes most spells never used, and you miss most of the fun of character development. Would have been much better if they had ditched that tedious starter dungeon, and started from lvl 1 instead. The game could have been set to generations later than BT2, with the old heroes passed away.

 

[Lord Azlan]

Enough of this tantalising matey - I am a quivering wreck. Post some tasty pics or at least a live video feed whilst you play.

I really want to play this game again. How much do you want for it?

Otherwise I will have to play Ultima IV again - which is already installed in Steam via GOG and ready for full action.

 

[octavius]

Enough of this tantalising matey - I am a quivering wreck.

I bet you are.

Post some tasty pics

Can this repuslive creature be trusted, I wonder?

I really want to play this game again. How much do you want for it?

An amount of cents equal to the amount of random encounters in BT3 (yes, this should make me a billionaire).

Otherwise I will have to play Ultima IV again - which is already installed in Steam via GOG and ready for full action.

My condolenses.

 

[dragonbait]

It looks like something one might find lurking around the codex. Best to be cautious.

 

[octavius]

Hmm...

 

[octavius]

Hmm...this is weird.
When getting back from Kinestia my Chronomancer didn't get the 600,000 XP reward from the Old Man (I wonder who he turns out to really be?).
Instead his XP is reset to excactly 16,777,215 XP (I tried both before and after getting som extra XP from combat). I notice he has more XP than the rest of the party, so is it possible that he's reached a cap, with at least two (I've lost count) worlds to go? He's lower level than my front liners though. They are level 51, while he is lvl 47.

I also had to ditch Hawkslayer after he turned hostile. I guess he's treated as a normal monster that joins if he gets killed (which he did). Or maybe it was because I gave him the wrong answer to his riddle? Anyway. I got tired of killing him and resurrecting him every time he misbehaved. I hope it won't fuck up the game for me?

 

[drifting]

Hmm...this is weird.
When getting back from Kinestia my Chronomancer didn't get the 600,000 XP reward from the Old Man (I wonder who he turns out to really be?).
Instead his XP is reset to excactly 16,777,215 XP (I tried both before and after getting som extra XP from combat). I notice he has more XP than the rest of the party, so is it possible that he's reached a cap, with at least two (I've lost count) worlds to go? He's lower level than my front liners though. They are level 51, while he is lvl 47.

I also had to ditch Hawkslayer after he turned hostile. I guess he's treated as a normal monster that joins if he gets killed (which he did). Or maybe it was because I gave him the wrong answer to his riddle? Anyway. I got tired of killing him and resurrecting him every time he misbehaved. I hope it won't fuck up the game for me?

Do you happen to know how much XP you had before? There is a place in the code where your XP is explicitly set to 16,777,215. Not sure if what you're seeing is a bug...

 

[octavius]

Do you happen to know how much XP you had before? There is a place in the code where your XP is explicitly set to 16,777,215. Not sure if what you're seeing is a bug...

I had 17,756,111 XP when returning from Kinestia, give or take a few hundre XP due to random encounter in Skara Brae.[/QUOTE]

 

[drifting]

Do you happen to know how much XP you had before? There is a place in the code where your XP is explicitly set to 16,777,215. Not sure if what you're seeing is a bug...

I had 17,756,111 XP when returning from Kinestia, give or take a few hundre XP due to random encounter in Skara Brae.

Okay, so in the DOS version if adding 600k XP puts you over 16,777,215 (0xffffff) then the game sets your XP to 16,777,215. I'm going to trace through the Apple version and see if it does the same there. If it doesn't I'll put out a new version that matches the 8 bit behavior.

 

[octavius]

In the meantime I tried parking my Chronomancer at the Refugee Camp while the others visited the Old Man. It almost worked well. The other characters got their reward, and the Chronomancer was later able to get som extra levels due to his combat experience. But the Old Man would not teach him the new spells required to travel to the next area, instead telling him to hurry up.

 

[drifting]

In the meantime I tried parking my Chronomancer at the Refugee Camp while the others visited the Old Man. It almost worked well. The other characters got their reward, and the Chronomancer was later able to get som extra levels due to his combat experience. But the Old Man would not teach him the new spells required to travel to the next area, instead telling him to hurry up.

Yeah that wasn't a good idea...When your party completed the quest without your Chronomancer it didn't set the quest completion bit on the chronomancer. If you upload your thieves.inf somewhere I can fix that.

I've uploaded a new version that removes the 16M check from the quest reward function so that shouldn't happen again.

 

[octavius]

In the meantime I tried parking my Chronomancer at the Refugee Camp while the others visited the Old Man. It almost worked well. The other characters got their reward, and the Chronomancer was later able to get som extra levels due to his combat experience. But the Old Man would not teach him the new spells required to travel to the next area, instead telling him to hurry up.

Yeah that wasn't a good idea...When your party completed the quest without your Chronomancer it didn't set the quest completion bit on the chronomancer. If you upload your thieves.inf somewhere I can fix that.

No worries. I still have the save game right before entering the Review Board.

I've uploaded a new version that removes the 16M check from the quest reward function so that shouldn't happen again.

Good show! Worked perfectly.

 

[octavius]

Tarjan, fate is coming for you.

After some relatively small and quick areas in BT3 Tarmitia took a while to get through. Nothing like beating up on Peasants, Slaves, Politicians and Nazi Soldiers with over 1000 HP each. Game is still to easy, though - I've not had a single party death during the whole game. Closest was actually when I forgot to TRZP a trap and 4 of 6 characters got Stoned.
Speaking of Tarmitia, anyone know what's up with that large, empty room where there is a message at the door saying "Here is the strongest feeling of power you have had in this strange warland. Through the door to the south, fate awaits you.".

 

[octavius]

...and so, as one god dies, seven other gods are born...

(and one old man revealed to be The God, not very surprising)

The last few battles were almost a bit hard, but the odds are so overwhelmingly stacked in the party's favour that even a company of Black Slayers and a troop of Vampire Lords were not much of a challenge. I regret not using Sir Robin's Tune more often, as it would have cut down on the tediousness. and lower levels would have made the few fixed encounters more interesting.
In the final battle I used that Death Horn that I had saved for special occasions. It worked wonders against the Black Slayers, Critically Hitting all of them, when the Geomancer ran out of spell points to cast Earth Maw and the other spell casters NUKE spells were not enough to kill the Black Slayers.
Ironically the only really challenging part of the game were UnterBrae, the monsters' kindergarden.

Despite abysmal encounter design, the game kind of grew on me. The plot got somewhat more interesting and the levels better designed as I progressed through the dimensions. The penultimate three level dungeon especially was nice, with lots of stairs, holes and portals, making it a classic "3D dungeon" where you also need to map the Z axis, like The Cube of Wiz 4 and some of the dungeons in Dark Heart of Uukrul and Wiz 7.

After finishing the game I think I can safely say that in BT3 the Monk has taken over as the most useless class, a role reserved for the Rogue on BT1 and 2. Since AC no longer determines chance to hit, an ultra low AC is not that important, and with no critical hit ability or access to weapons of mass destruction the Monk was useless before turning him into a Geomancer, since even with 9 attacks per round he would usually not be able to kill even a single enemy.
I regret not picking a Hunter instead, since they have better abiltities and items, many of the items being unique to them.

I think the ultimate 6 man (I like having once spot open) party would be:
1. Paladin as party leader. Don't turn into Geomancer, since the Paladin bonus to saving throws means that enemy spells that affect the party as a whole (Freeze Foe for example) virtually never have an effect.
2. Hunter (turn into Geomancer later)
3. Bard
4. Rogue
5. Chronomancer
6. Archmage

Many thanks to drifting for making the game finally playable and bug free (maybe a few minor ones left).

 

[Lord Azlan]

Really good thread. You guys are my hero for playing and completing BT3 - I don't know how you did it.

Like those guys that go to India and visit the Taj Mahal or get to ride with dolphins somewhere in the sea, it something I always wanted to do but can't get the courage to do it.

You have motivated me. Also thanks for those closing tips. Really useful. Thanks for the links as well.

Would really like to see more pictures of your adventures.

 

[octavius]

Would really like to see more pictures of your adventures.

Heh, I thought you were being sarcastic in an earlier messages, what with this being the RPG Codex and all. If not I would probably have written more about my experience with the game.

Anyway, one thing I think was kind of a missed opportunity (in view of all the "time travel" in Tarmitia) was not not making the Strifespear the "Spear of Destiny" (the spear a Roman soldier according to tradition used on Jesus). Since a Rogue can't use the Strifespear it doesn't end up being the weapon destined to kill Tarjan.

 

[octavius]

Now let's test what stuff the new gods are made of:

Spoiler

Now that was a bit of a downer. I could swear there was one BT game where you would end up in an impossible (?) battle if you said "Burger". In BT1 the priests just say "cease thy babblings" or something like that?
So am I imagining things, or are there differences between various computer versions?

 

[Lord Azlan]

Would really like to see more pictures of your adventures.

Heh, I thought you were being sarcastic in an earlier messages, what with this being the RPG Codex and all. If not I would probably have written more about my experience with the game.

Anyway, one thing I think was kind of a missed opportunity (in view of all the "time travel" in Tarmitia) was not not making the Strifespear the "Spear of Destiny" (the spear a Roman soldier according to tradition used on Jesus). Since a Rogue can't use the Strifespear it doesn't end up being the weapon destined to kill Tarjan.

No sarcasm chief - just respect. One of the biggest regrets I have in my gaming life is losing access to C64 when I upgraded to Amiga and then losing the Amiga collection when I went PC.

I gave those machines away to mates that did not have anything at the time. Alas my lack of technological know how meant I never went back to some of the oldies I used to play. I suppose that is why GOG is almost loved by people. BT3 is right up there on my list of regrets. Recently completed BT1 and tried LoX - still really like BT combat.

I just have to admit it - sorry. I am not ashamed of what I like and what I don't.

Really preferred BT3 over BT2.

 

[Daemongar]

...and so, as one god dies, seven other gods are born...

I missed this, but Congratulations! While it may have been a horror at times, it did have some imaginative experiences and settings. You are richer for having finished it!

Anyway, one thing I think was kind of a missed opportunity (in view of all the "time travel" in Tarmitia) was not not making the Strifespear the "Spear of Destiny" (the spear a Roman soldier according to tradition used on Jesus). Since a Rogue can't use the Strifespear it doesn't end up being the weapon destined to kill Tarjan.

Oddly, I was very disappointed that they didn't include Wasteland references in the "Wasteland" map of Werra's domain. I mean, they could have used the same damn art, or character names. This is one thing I never understood. Fargo and Stackpole worked on both games, they both came out in 1988. I'd think they'd have a lot more crossover between them, but go figure.

Also, I'll bet if Cranford was still with Interplay, they would have definitely tied the Strifespear with the "Spear of Destiny" but you wouldn't get the character godhood ascendancy and whatnot at the end, so you kind of gets some, you lose some.