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Bard's Tale The Bard's Tale Series

victim

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Any chance we could develop a new nomenclature around here that didn't make me embarrassed to read posts?
 

GlutenBurger

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Any chance we could develop a new nomenclature around here that didn't make me embarrassed to read posts?
If that's the only thing about this place that makes you embarrassed to be here, maybe you should cling to that final vestige of shame.
 

octavius

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Personally, I've always felt someone should do something with that in modern games, mixing in set encounters with random encounters, but having a set ecosystem. So, there's only so many enemies in the enemy pool available for random encounters, which pool gets replenished in response to certain actions by the player.

That's pretty much how many of the Gold Box games worked. In Pool of Radiance each area had a set number of random encounters, and once the area was cleared it stayed clear. Champions of Krynn had the same system, only the random encounters would be reset each time you re-entered an area.
 

BigWeather

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I think Telengard (awesome name, by the way, I've still got the box + cassette for my C=64 =)) was meaning that there are separate random encounter pools, each tied to a faction. You'd have random encounters from various pools but due to your actions towards one faction or another some pools will refill faster and some slower (or shrink), skewing the random encounters towards the factions that you've made loathe you and away from those you've gained favor with or avoided.
 

octavius

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I think Telengard (awesome name, by the way, I've still got the box + cassette for my C=64 =)) was meaning that there are separate random encounter pools, each tied to a faction. You'd have random encounters from various pools but due to your actions towards one faction or another some pools will refill faster and some slower (or shrink), skewing the random encounters towards the factions that you've made loathe you and away from those you've gained favor with or avoided.

That would have been even better. Sadly encounter design is a low priority in most CRPGs, including most of the classics.
 

octavius

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Anyone played BT3 with the fan made patch?
It seems to be a work in progress, since the last update was only 14 days ago.
Typically for geekware, it lacks any kind of instructions on how to use it, and unfortunately the forums at http://bardstale.brotherhood.de/talefiles/board/ are down. But just installing the DOS version of with D-Fend Reloaded, unzip the patch files into the same folder and then replace THIE.EXE with thiefp.exe works, but I'm not sure what the other files, including a BAT file, are for.

With this fan made patch the DOS version of BT3 should be less painful to play. Anyone tried it?
 

dragonbait

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Anyone played BT3 with the fan made patch?
It seems to be a work in progress, since the last update was only 14 days ago.
Typically for geekware, it lacks any kind of instructions on how to use it, and unfortunately the forums at http://bardstale.brotherhood.de/talefiles/board/ are down. But just installing the DOS version of with D-Fend Reloaded, unzip the patch files into the same folder and then replace THIE.EXE with thiefp.exe works, but I'm not sure what the other files, including a BAT file, are for.

With this fan made patch the DOS version of BT3 should be less painful to play. Anyone tried it?

Hi, the Adventurer's Guild board isn't down, it's been updated and has a new URL. Use this one.
http://bardstale.brotherhood.de/talefiles/forum/

I haven't used that BT3 patch though.
 

octavius

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Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Battletech: Crescent Hawk's Inception was the best RPG of the 1980s. There, I said it; the truth cannot be contained any longer.

It's so much easier to enjoy a 1980s game today when you actually played it back in the day. I have zero difficult jumping into Inception, and the graphics genuinely look good to me, but that's probably because I played it a lot back in the day (I'm 30). A game like Bard's Tale, though, which I never played back then, is a different story. I'd rather play castle adventure (another game I played way too much of back then).
 

octavius

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I liked B:CHI when I played it back in the days, but not so much when I replayed it.
Bard's Tale I liked even more, and also disliked when replaying it, but that was due to one thing only: the insane encounter frequency calculated in real time, which ironically enough is also what I disliked about B:CHI. On my chronological play list my entry for B:CHI says: "Too many random encounters in real time!"
 

Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Hmm, I think I ran from a great number of the random encounters. Levelling isn't a big deal in B:CHI, at least as far as I recall, so it doesn't hurt to avoid the fights unless they look particularly interesting. When I'm being cheap, I always run away with a mech at the beginning when shit gets real, then I steal the urbanmech and the one in the jail, so I'm overpowered as hell anyway. Only the street fights are a challenge, and if I'm being cheap then I probably cheesed the stocks and used all the money to buy inferno launchers and armour.
 

dragonbait

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Hi, the Adventurer's Guild board isn't down, it's been updated and has a new URL. Use this one.
http://bardstale.brotherhood.de/talefiles/forum/

I haven't used that BT3 patch though.

Thanks. I registered, but it looks like it may take some time for my account to become active.
I saw your username there, though. Any chance you could ask how to use the patch?
This is the relevant thread.

It is as I suspected. Just put the thiefp.exe file in your bard's tale III folder and type thiefp in the command prompt to start the patched game.

Listing of fixes...
drifting said:
+- Monsters now do breath attacks properly
+
+- Monster attacks now inflict special status (critical hit, stoning, etc)
+
+- Divine Intervention spell correctly converts illusions to monsters
+
+- The Up Arrow key now works as the 'K' key
+
+- Fixed a bug where a monster would not get to attack if its attack priority
+ was lower than the party's
+
+- Horn of Gods and Wand of Fury now work correctly.
+
+- Set a maximum negative AC of -50 to match the Apple version. It would wrap
+ if the AC got too low.
+
+- Use the proper saving throw values for monsters. This brings the DOS version
+ in line with the Apple II version.
+
+- Fixed the group size when a new monster group is create by summoning.
+
+- Clear the "make monster hostile" dungeon square flag after it is checked.
+
+- The "make monster hostile" dungeon square now only effects the party if there
+ is a monster in the party.
+
+- Fixed Tarjan's attack to call the summon() routine 10 times with Black Slayers
+
+- COSMETIC: Print a blank line between attacks from a breath attack or spell
+
+- COSMETIC: Print an '!' after the kill string
+
+- COSMETIC: Fix the reward output after (L)eaving a chest. It would print
+ "Each character receives XX XP, and". Added " you received 0 pieces of gold"
+
+- Added casting of spells by 4-letter code as in BT1 and BT2
+
+- Light spells now stay active when hitting an anti-magic square
+
+- Fixed Sorcerer Sight spell to detect all special squares ahead
+
+- Corrected the monster rosters for the levels.
+
+- When on an anti-magic square, spells that are cast now fizzle.
+
+- Print full spell name under "Known Spells" screen of a magic user
+
+- Removed getc() from dunsq_doTrap().
+
+- Made the outdoor levels use the outdoor background and ignore the light
+ spell value. This matches behavior on the Apple II
+
+- COSMETIC: Clear the screen after certain actions in the dungeon main loop.
+ For example, detect messages would stay in the text window when turning on
+ a square.
+
+- Added scrolling speed commands to battle text as in BT1 and BT2
+
+- COSMETIC: Fixed the spacing of "XX points of damage" in a breath attack or
+ spell attack.
+
+- Added check for poisoned status to the periodic check loop. Character HP
+ will now be drained as expected when poisoned.
+
+- Fixed the drop rate for Harmonic Gems

link to patched BTIII at github
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
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Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
While I was into gaming from around the mid-80s, I didn't really get into PCs until the late 80s and RPGs in late 1990/early 1991. And while I did buy The Bard's Tale Trilogy compilation, I did so for a somewhat odd reason - namely a RPG named Legend of Faerghail.

LoF is a german RPG heavily inspired by The Bard's Tale trilogy. So inspired, in fact, that the manual claims you can import BT characters into Faerghail. This gave me the demented idea of a master plan where I would play through the BT trilogy then import them into Faerghail. I ended up spending more time playing Faerghail than all of the BT games, Dragon Wars and Wasteland combined. Faerghail is a brutal and unforgiving game, but nowhere on the scale of its "predecessors". If your party died, the corpses of your party would be returned to the tavern, where a new character could be created (or be ready and waiting) and then haul corpses to the temple for resurrection. Faerghail even had a bank to store money in, but since the bank could be robbed it was a better idea to have your already prepared character hold on to it.

As the years passed I would sometimes try my luck with the BT games, but the random encounters, bizarre movement scheme (by my books anyway) and what I felt was a lack of proper documentation made progress a VERY tedious affair. I think I managed once to get a party up to Level 10 and complete the first dungeon, but that was about as far as I ever got. Except for one attempt at playing The Bard's Tale (2004) I have pretty much abandoned the series for good. It had good writing and humour (so did Faerghail to a degree) but to get anywhere took effort and dedication well beyond what could be asked of gamers in 1990, only five years after its release.

BT1 was released on a LOT of platforms, they even got an Amstrad CPC version out in 1988.

So while I will never hold the BT games up as a shining example of good RPGs, I salute those who played and enjoyed them. Remember, you have faced death itself in the form of 99 Berzerkers, 99 Berzerkers, 99 Berzerkers and 99 Berzerkers.
 
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octavius

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So while I will never hold the BT games up as a shining example of good RPGs, I salute those who played and enjoyed them. Remember, you have faced death itself in the form of 99 Berzerkers, 99 Berzerkers, 99 Berzerkers and 99 Berzerkers.

I remember when my party of Adventurers had killed those 396 Berserkers and were on their way to the Review Board. They kicked in the wrong door and faced death itself in the form of 1 Hobbit.

If it weren't for the random encounter frequency I think the BT games would hold up not too badly, at least the first one that isn't too difficult (until the final levels, that is) or big. BT2 OTOH was brutal, in a Micheal Crawford really hates your guts kind of way. Personally I liked the dungeon design of the BT games, since I enjoy a good mapping challenge. Too bad that particular aspect of CRPGs is totally dead.

I'm about to start BT3 using the fanmade patch, so it should be really interesting to see how it turns out. I was severely disappointed by the original, buggy Amiga version.
 
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Lord Azlan

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I'm about to start BT3 using the fanmade patch said:
Hi - I really want to try BT3 again as it was my favourite. I did purchase the new Bards Tale game for the sole reason to have access to the original trilogy. I completed BT1 a number of months ago.

I was really disappointed that the versions of BT2 and BT3 included are crappy EGA PC versions - I reckon I played BT3 on C64 or Amiga with superior graphics.

Can you tell me what version of BT3 you are using and whether you have decent - and I mean more than 4 colours) graphics?

Thanks
 

victim

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By the time I decided to revisit some of the classics, including Bard's Tale, the game was too antiquated for me to stomach. However, I did play all the way through the NES game. If I'd played the real games in their day, I'm sure I would find the console version a poor substitute but as it it I really liked it. Same story for Pool of Radiance. Maybe it was just the fact that a Nintendo cart didn't have room to include all the rigmarole that turned me off.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
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BT1 was released on a LOT of platforms, they even got an Amstrad CPC version out in 1988.

Amstrad CPC was a popular micro-computer in Europe (especially France) and UK, that's completely unsurprising (to me) that it would get Bard's Tale. The Speccy, C=64 and CPC clung on for ages against the 16bitters, they kept getting releases long after their use-by dates expired. Some of those releases were jaw-dropping coding feats, too. >_>
 
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octavius

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BT1 was released on a LOT of platforms, they even got an Amstrad CPC version out in 1988.

Amstrad CPC was a popular micro-computer in Europe (especially France) and UK, that's completely unsurprising (to me) that it would get Bard's Tale. The Speccy, C=64 and CPC clung on for ages against the 16bitters, they kept getting releases long after their use-by dates expired. Some of those releases were jaw-dropping coding feats, too. >_>

In isolated pockets of the world there still exist people who use these 8-bit machines, and even make new games for them. These relics of the past are an endangered species, and are they are so retro that they make me look like a casual consoletard in comparison.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
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That's thanks to the deeply embedded hardware hacking and coding culture that 8bits engendered, and it still endures. If you compare current 16bit deving, there is comparatively little. Why? My answer is 16bit users were too busy playing the games, instead of learning to code their machines.
 

Daemongar

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Codex Year of the Donut
I think Telengard (awesome name, by the way, I've still got the box + cassette for my C=64 =)) was meaning that there are separate random encounter pools, each tied to a faction. You'd have random encounters from various pools but due to your actions towards one faction or another some pools will refill faster and some slower (or shrink), skewing the random encounters towards the factions that you've made loathe you and away from those you've gained favor with or avoided.
Telengard didn't work like this. It's also easy to verify: Telengard was written in basic (for C64/Apple) the PC version was in C. You can download the disk image and walk through the code yourself. I know because I heavily modified the game/graphics when I was younger/bored. Charisma affected random encounters actions towards you, and that's it.
 

Daemongar

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Codex Year of the Donut
Just for the hell of it, I exported the Telengard program to a text file. You'd be amazed at the complex process of character creation:

1400 print"<ret> to use stats"
1500 fori=0to5:q=0:forq1=1to3:q=q+int(rnd(1)*6+1):nextq1:s(i)=q
1510 printmid$(s$,i*3+1,3);str$(s(i));" ":next
1515 gosub16000:ifc$<>chr$(13)then1400
So it just rolls three dice for each stat and puts the scores in an array s(I) (line 1500) if you hit anything other than enter (line 1515), it rerolls (line 1400)

Either way, it was fertile ground for folks who took a basic class or so, or bored teenagers.
 

dragonbait

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I'm a HUGE fan of the Bard's Tale series, being partial to the C64 versions myself. The first Disk based crpg I purchased was The Bard's Tale, and I played it to death. It's very hard to defend it around here, as it is *very* difficult a low levels, there is no save anywhere, and you could only save off your characters in the Adventures Guild. Think I finished my first run with characters around level 120 or so due to getting lost so often in dungeons.

There was a lot of newness and creativity in the Bard's Tale games, and I could not wait for the newer versions to come out. Unlike Gregz I believe the games got better as the games went along. The developers had do to do something to ramp up the challenge for new players and players importing alike. Players like me took the same party from BT1 -> BT2 -> BT3. I believe that since you could finish BT1 then continue leveling, they had to scale the difficulty upward in each future game. So BT2 added real time puzzles. Finish the puzzle or everyone dies. BT3 added a lot of creatures with all kinds of death and crit abilities.

Also, as the games progressed, the spells got better and they added more dynamic features. While BT2 snares were damn near impossible at the end they added a level of excitement and fear to the game. Fight your way up three levels of horror, then, armed with no knowledge, jump into the snare and hope for the best. Also, they did open up the world and added lots of nice features. In BT3, they added all that automapping, artifacts and 10x the story of the previous 2. There are other technological advances, but I believe they got better, not worse.

A lot of quite popular dungeons are still fondly remembered here: Harklyn's Castle and the 400 Berzerkers in BT1, The Grey Crypt (antimagic dungeon) in BT2, and Tarmitia and fighting Stormtroopers and Wasteland Scavengers (a tie in with Wasteland, or I thought at the time) in BT3. Bard's Tale belongs in the "pantheon" but its a LOT harder to go back and finish BT1 than it would be to finish U5 or Wasteland. That's understandable: those games are incredible. But BT1 was just as much a technological marvel as they were when they came out.

At the time, Bard's Tale I was THE game to play. It was the latest and greatest coding achievement of the times. There were other games to play sure but nothing beat Bard's Tale I for a while. Bard's Tale II came out and it was the equivalent of BTI+Then Some. BTII just kicked everyones ass, and kicked it HARD. To be honest, I didn't get far in it. I played it on my dad's Apple II computer. I even got further than he did. He didn't like it as much as I did but I also prefered BT1 over BT2. IMO Might and Magic II was the next cool RPG to be released. I spent many an hour playing MMII. It was practically never ending and I liked that aspect of it. My dad beat Bard's Tale3 on Apple II. I played a bit of it back then also but then got mostly involved in the AD+D Pool of Radiance and further Strategic Simulations Inc. (SSI) games from there onwards.
 

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