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KickStarter The Banner Saga

veryalien

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Codex 2014
Let's keep in mind KoDP had no animation what's so ever. It was just screens of portraits, texts, and a highly decorated UI. It was able to accomplish much more with so much less. I think the world of Glorantha doesn't hurt it either. You did not have combat really -- outside of picking options. In KoDP I always felt I could do whatever I wanted, and the consequences were there waiting for me. It certainly delivered on that experience.

Banner Saga is a shitty Oregon's Trail meets KoDP clone made by biodrones that got layed off after SWTOR was released. I liked SWTOR at the start but couldn't help but feel it wasn't really designed with love. I suspect The Banner Saga is the same in this regard. Here's your F2P multiplayer cash shop game (but it's pay to lose i tell you!) and here's the first installment which is only twelve hours long.

No. KoDP was made by people who wanted to make a game. Banner Saga is just three rejects trying to ride the crowdsourcing wave and make some bucks.
 

Berekän

A life wasted
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Well, I reached chapter 4 tonight and I thought I'd share my impressions of the game so far.

The highpoint of the game are clearly the visuals. It's been a while since I played a game that looked as gorgeous as this. It’s got a pretty unique visual style, it’s very polished, has a lot of detail and it shows it has been made with a lot of care. I really love the visuals and I’d love to see more games done with this style. If I were to nitpick something, maybe it would be that the characters sometimes contrast too much with the environment but it’s just a very minor grievance, irrelevant. And probably the fact that at the camps it’s hard to distinguish the buildings you can interact with.

Let’s start nitpicking now the combat. I don’t get it. On paper it sounds like a good system. I always loathed the fact that in most of the games you could have units at the verge of death that would perform the same as if they were at full health, making tactics outside of the focusing and picking them one by one subpar. This game tries to fight that making the strength of your character, the damage he can deliver, equal to his hit points, and to give your characters a layer of defense they also have an armor stat, independent from the strength. This system is good to move the game away from the focusing one character part and moving it to one where it’s a lot more important weakening all your foes so they don’t deal too much damage to you. But outside that I don’t really understand the combat, and I think it’s because it lacks a bit of tuning. Most of the time (if not all) it’s better to ignore the armor and go straight for the health pool with your heavy hitters , so you can cut your enemies effectiveness in half, if you even botter trying to reduce your enemy’s armor so your weakest characters can deal some damage, chances are the enemy will go instead straight for the strength, leaving you weaker and rendering that armor advantage you got virtually useless. I’m far from being a good player, but I had no problems whatseoever with the fights going full berseker, distributing the damage, mind you. I think the combat has a good philosophy but is flawed without some tuning, making, for one, armor a bit more relevant.

Outside of the combat we have some micromanagement of our party, in the form of supplies and number of members, but this is largely irrelevant. It’s very barebones and seems nigh impossible to fail at this part of the game. The other part of the game comes managing the events that will pop up during your travel, à la King of Dragon Pass. These are well done in the sense that they add a lot to the atmosphere of the game, you are constantly trying to make the best decision for your party, and you can lose one of your characters just by making the wrong call, or losing a number of your followers. Unfortunately they aren’t very fleshed out most of the time and it will end up feeling like a gamble, where you don’t really have any control on the outcame. Sometimes you’ll want to make a question which will be a decision in itself, so you have to roll the dice with the sparse information they give you.

The same happens with dialogues and the main events of the game. You don’t really have any choices to inquire and get some more information, leaving the consequences to a simple gamble (and there are some stupid consequences, like the one mentioned by some posters of the fire archer).

The story itself is quite nice. You aren’t told everything and you’re left instead trying to figure some things on your own. This adds to the general atmosphere of the game which is the other strong point of the game. The events that develop during the game, the decisions you have to make, all add to the sense of despair that gives the game from the very beginning, where things start wrong and keep going worse. This is where the consequences of our events add to the atmosphere, making your losses seem worse than they really are. On the other hand, the choices and consequences were heavily marketed and it fails at that regard. You can’t alter the storyline in any way, which is a fucking shame since the way the game is managed it has the perfect structure to make it posible. Sure, you can lose a minor character, but who cares, they aren’t even fleshed out, you don’t get to really know anyone outside of a pair of questions.

It might seem like I’m not enjoying the game but I’m certainly am, I like the visuals, I like the story, I like the feeling of uncertainity and the gaming part it’s fun, if too simple for it’s own good. It has a lot of flaws but the potential for a better game is there.

Also, fuck, that turned out longer than I expected.
 

Stompa

Arcane
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
531
Gotta say, I half-expected some tasteful rape at the betrayal part with the way it was set up. Might've had some actual consequences there, but nope. The whole bait-and-switch concerning those two chucklefucks was pretty poorly done, the one who's just red herring sent some thugs to fuck you up in the beginning for no apparent reason and the other is nothing but helpful and reasonable man all the way to stabbing you in the back. Even after that time when Alette speaks to you about them you can't actually do shit to betrayer, he explains himself and that's it. Anyone stayed outside the walls in Frostwellr? How did that go down?
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Angelo85 said:
Now in light of this cold hard facts Grunker and veryalien, which game is better and why?

Grunker said:
This ain't no KoDP

Anyway, your calculations are flawed, IMO. 500 grand might be worth roughly 700, but I doubt development costs for video games translate directly into average coin difference. Video games weren't just cheaper to produce when KoDP were made - there was a complete world of difference.

Not to mention that of the 724 grand from the KS, Stoic probably only saw like 500 tops for actual production.
 

Kz3r0

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
27,017
Angelo85 said:
Now in light of this cold hard facts Grunker and veryalien, which game is better and why?

Grunker said:
This ain't no KoDP

Anyway, your calculations are flawed, IMO. 500 grand might be worth roughly 700, but I doubt development costs for video games translate directly into average coin difference. Video games weren't just cheaper to produce when KoDP were made - there was a complete world of difference.

Not to mention that of the 724 grand from the KS, Stoic probably only saw like 500 tops for actual production.
Why complicate things?
One focus on gameplay and story mechanics the other on visual style, that's it.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Angelo85 said:
Now in light of this cold hard facts Grunker and veryalien, which game is better and why?

Grunker said:
This ain't no KoDP

Anyway, your calculations are flawed, IMO. 500 grand might be worth roughly 700, but I doubt development costs for video games translate directly into average coin difference. Video games weren't just cheaper to produce when KoDP were made - there was a complete world of difference.

Not to mention that of the 724 grand from the KS, Stoic probably only saw like 500 tops for actual production.
Why complicate things?
One focus on gameplay and story mechanics the other on visual style, that's it.

wat

Banner Saga's combat is much gameplay-focused than KoDP's ever was, and KoDP is itself a pretty beautiful game with tons of hand-drawn detail and shit. KoDP also has plenty of derps in its text-events.

KoDP is better, in my mind, because of diversity, scope and wealth of content. But I doubt you can simply say "Banner Saga spent its money on visual style" and be done with the calcs.
 

himmy

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Can we just take a step back and marvel at the fact that there is actually a game that we are comparing to KoDP and how that is something beautiful in itself?
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
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Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,479
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Poor BlackAdderBG, fighting bravely against the Kodex Konsensus :salute:



The options menu is definitely shit. :troll:
 

m_s0

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Jun 18, 2009
Messages
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Poor BlackAdderBG, fighting bravely against the Kodex Konsensus :salute:
I'll have to side with BlackAdderBG on this one. Issues with the writing make this game nearly unplayable for me, other (relatively minor) problems and general feeling of ineptitude aside. I really can't get over how badly that aspect of TBS is handled, and how no one seems to notice or care.
Can we just take a step back and marvel at the fact that there is actually a game that we are comparing to KoDP and how that is something beautiful in itself?
Not if it compares as unfavorably as it does. Points for the inspiration, sure, and the concept itself is great, but that's theory. The Banner Saga is just a lot of wasted potential. Then again, this is former Bioware employees we're talking about here, and most of the problems I have with TBS can be traced to Bioware's shitty design philosophy (down to little details like not being able to tell what the fuck is going to happen upon choosing a particular option during events and stuff like that. Come on, this isn't fucking Ass Effect - put some effort into this) so I can only blame myself for being disappointed.

I really wanted this to be good, I'm having reasonable fun during combat, but the rest I'm not enjoying.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
7,269
Poor BlackAdderBG, fighting bravely against the Kodex Konsensus :salute:
I'll have to side with BlackAdderBG on this one. Issues with the writing make this game nearly unplayable for me, other (relatively minor) problems and general feeling of ineptitude aside. I really can't get over how badly that aspect of TBS is handled, and how no one seems to notice or care.
Can we just take a step back and marvel at the fact that there is actually a game that we are comparing to KoDP and how that is something beautiful in itself?
Not if it compares as unfavorably as it does. Points for the inspiration, sure, and the concept itself is great, but that's theory. The Banner Saga is just a lot of wasted potential. Then again, this is former Bioware employees we're talking about here, and most of the problems I have with TBS can be traced to Bioware's shitty design philosophy (down to little details like not being able to tell what the fuck is going to happen upon choosing a particular option during events and stuff like that. Come on, this isn't fucking Ass Effect - put some effort into this) so I can only blame myself for being disappointed.

I really wanted this to be good, I'm having reasonable fun during combat, but the rest I'm not enjoying.
I'm not one of the faggots that cares about writing in a game.
 

m_s0

Arcane
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
1,289
In this case the issue runs deeper than "dialogues suck and make me want to claw my eyes out", though. It doesn't just fuck up the setting and the story, it creates frequent problems with the gameplay.
 

Trash

Pointing and laughing.
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What? The writing is excellent. Really felt like a world that is sliding into the abbyss with the inevitable breakdown of society, standards and morals that will happen along the way.

And people wanting to see what effects their choices will have beforehand? Please get off my lawn codex. Loved to see how some of the things I did way earlier either helped me or, more typically, came back to bite me way later.

Oh well, finished the game. Had to go to easy for the last fight coz I borked my party. I'm getting old I guess. Game really stopped pulling its punches in the last quarter or so. Ending is serious blue balls teritory. Looking forward to the next part.

Going to give it a new playthrough in a little bit.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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What? The writing is excellent. Really felt like a world that is sliding into the abbyss with the inevitable breakdown of society, standards and morals that will happen along the way.

And people wanting to see what effects their choices will have beforehand? Please get off my lawn codex. Loved to see how some of the things I did way earlier either helped me or, more typically, came back to bite me way later.

Oh well, finished the game. Had to go to easy for the last fight coz I borked my party. I'm getting old I guess. Game really stopped pulling its punches in the last quarter or so. Ending is serious blue balls teritory. Looking forward to the next part.

Going to give it a new playthrough in a little bit.

:bro:
 

OuterSpace

Scholar
Joined
Apr 5, 2010
Messages
155
Just finished it on Normal and I enjoyed it a lot. The last leg of the game really feels like a struggle.

I agree that some of the writing is a little juvenile but the overall narrative arc is solid. The game doesn't explicitly tell the player of what's going on, so you have to figure it out yourself. Very un-Biowarean and for the better. The highschool-esque dialogue is lame as hell though.

I like the combat system but I'm still trying to figure it out (not sure why people are calling it simple). My two main priorities were:
- protect glass cannons
- diminish armor and then try to reduce STR to a low value without killing the enemies

This seems to work well because of the alternating turn mechanic. If you simply focus on eliminating one enemy at a time the majority of the enemy turns will be taken by enemies with full STR. leaving weak enemies alive makes a lot of the enemy turns ineffective. this strategy does however starve you of sometimes much needed willpower.
 

fastjack

Augur
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Mar 31, 2004
Messages
347
Location
the south bay
Poor BlackAdderBG, fighting bravely against the Kodex Konsensus :salute:
I'll have to side with BlackAdderBG on this one. Issues with the writing make this game nearly unplayable for me, other (relatively minor) problems and general feeling of ineptitude aside. I really can't get over how badly that aspect of TBS is handled, and how no one seems to notice or care.
Can we just take a step back and marvel at the fact that there is actually a game that we are comparing to KoDP and how that is something beautiful in itself?
Not if it compares as unfavorably as it does. Points for the inspiration, sure, and the concept itself is great, but that's theory. The Banner Saga is just a lot of wasted potential. Then again, this is former Bioware employees we're talking about here, and most of the problems I have with TBS can be traced to Bioware's shitty design philosophy (down to little details like not being able to tell what the fuck is going to happen upon choosing a particular option during events and stuff like that. Come on, this isn't fucking Ass Effect - put some effort into this) so I can only blame myself for being disappointed.

I really wanted this to be good, I'm having reasonable fun during combat, but the rest I'm not enjoying.

Count me in as another person who couldn't get into the game. The writing was a major culprit for me, but the simple combat and the fact that I felt like I was being told a story rather than making one also factored in. I accept that I only played for about an hour and it may get better after the introductions, but I wasn't having any fun and didn't want to throw good time after bad.

I love KoDP because (like a good rpg imo) I feel like I am shaping the story. Bioware decisions and wtf consequences occurred in Banner Saga even during my limited play time.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
7,269
Oh, I think there's a shitload of untapped potential in this game. The map is beautiful and I love the caravan mechanics. I wish it were opened up a bit, and a true caravan-type survival game. It kind of has pieces of that throughout the game, but those pieces don't matter to the game.

The combat is simple but incredibly effective. That's what makes it a tight experience to me. Given the art style and the solid mechanics, it definitely leaves you wanting more, but what is delivered is still okay.
 

himmy

Arcane
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Messages
1,151
Location
New Europe
like not being able to tell what the fuck is going to happen upon choosing a particular option during events

:hmmm:

Maybe a colour-coded decision-wheel is more your speed.
 

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