Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[Dreaad]

Sure party building is fun, which is why I try not to push people into dual classing 'power builds' on their first play through. You do not need a kensai/mage or ranger/cleric to have fun in the game. In fact those builds tend to take a lot away from IE fun of strengths vs weaknesses by making god characters.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Single class dwarven characters with the racial saving throw bonus >>>> gimmicky dual class shit

 

[Xeon]

Thank you very much Lorica.

Dreaad, The last battle against Sarevok was really hard. IIRC I only won it because I got lucky and he ended up fighting me alone and even then he took 1 or 2 members of my party. I had Alora, Branwen, Viconia, Edwin and Xan. Did not do the expansions, Maybe that made things a little harder or something.

 

[Dreaad]

Well you would have missed out on some relatively decent items. Also the battle is meant to be really hard, it is the final battle in the game after all, made during an age when pc games were still difficult. All I'm saying is that with some dual classed builds and exploits you could solo that battle which for a first run through would (for me anyway) kind of ruin the experience. Better to pick a class/race that you want to, seeing as it is possible to beat the game regardless. Your way of enjoying games may be different from mine of course, nothing wrong with that.

 

[Cursed Platypus]

I just finished Baldur's Gate I for the first time a few days ago. To summarize my opinion: if anyone other than Bioware had done it, I think it could have been one of the best RPGs around.

yet they did BG 2 afterward, which is one of the best RPG around.

Your hate for Bioware is irrational, 2000's bioware has nothing to do with 2010's Bioware, especially after EA bought it. Drawing conclusion based on current repuation is stupid.
''if anyone other than Richard Garriot had done it, I think Ultima 7 could have been the best RPG around.''

 

[hoverdog]

Your hate for Bioware is irrational, 2000's bioware has nothing to do with 2010's Bioware, especially after EA bought it. Drawing conclusion based on current repuation is stupid.
''if anyone other than Richard Garriot had done it, I think Ultima 7 could have been the best RPG around.''

2000s bioware? so you're talking about the one that made NWN, kotor and jade empire?

 

[Cosmo]

Yeah, 2010's Bioware is pretty much 2000's Bioware on cocaine (especially in DA2's case)...

 

[Cursed Platypus]

Your hate for Bioware is irrational, 2000's bioware has nothing to do with 2010's Bioware, especially after EA bought it. Drawing conclusion based on current repuation is stupid.
''if anyone other than Richard Garriot had done it, I think Ultima 7 could have been the best RPG around.''

2000s bioware? so you're talking about the one that made NWN, kotor and jade empire?

Uh, Ok lets say 1998-2001's Bioware. Around 2000 was what I was trying to say.

 

[Lorica]

Your hate for Bioware is irrational, 2000's bioware has nothing to do with 2010's Bioware, especially after EA bought it. Drawing conclusion based on current repuation is stupid.
''if anyone other than Richard Garriot had done it, I think Ultima 7 could have been the best RPG around.''

2000s bioware? so you're talking about the one that made NWN, kotor and jade empire?

Uh, Ok lets say 1998-2001's Bioware. Around 2000 was what I was trying to say.

You wrote it correctly.

I think the things that make modern Bioware games so unenjoyable were already present in BG2. It's by no means the worst offender in games, but BG2 was already headed towards a more linear, theme-park style, with weird romances and spotty, often annoying companions, and what sometimes feels like filler combat. It has redeeming qualities to all of these--there are actual secrets, areas themselves have more to do in them than modern Bio games, there are some interesting encounters, and the companions fought and their strengths and weaknesses are little more distinct (and personal quests more interesting, though YMMV). But knowing where Bioware went after BG2 and already feeling sick of these elements, it's easy to have a lower opinion of BG2 now than before.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

I'm not sure it makes sense to create some kind of pre/post decline periodization of Bioware history when they only created 1-2 halfdecent games to begin with.

 

[Redlands]

I just finished Baldur's Gate I for the first time a few days ago. To summarize my opinion: if anyone other than Bioware had done it, I think it could have been one of the best RPGs around.

yet they did BG 2 afterward, which is one of the best RPG around.

Was... was I just Kanye West'd on the Codex?

Too bad BG 2 isn't BG 1, because I'm not particularly eager to play BG2 now (though I will, eventually).

Your hate for Bioware is irrational,

Pretty sure my "hate" is justified, since:

1. I've played other Bioware games before (NWN, KoToR, first bit of Dragon Age until my good computer died) but they all suffer from the same problems.
2. I never said I hated the game, just that it could have been one of the best if Bioware hadn't been the ones behind it.

2000's bioware has nothing to do with 2010's Bioware, especially after EA bought it.

From what I've gathered from my own experience, the problems they had then have only been exacerbated over time. EA just gave them more rope to hang themselves by.

Drawing conclusion based on current repuation is stupid.

Lucky for you, because otherwise based on my current opinion of you, I'd think you have to be one of the most illiterate posters around if you completely missed the point of my post.

Then again, you seem to be a huge Bioware fan, so maybe reading isn't your strong point.

''if anyone other than Richard Garriot had done it, I think Ultima 7 could have been the best RPG around.''

At least Garriot showed some improvement between Ultimas 1 and 4 (the only ones I've played so far); Bioware haven't ever really improved on their ability to tell a story that didn't bore me.

Ultimas 4 and 5 have a much more engaging story than any of the Bioware games that I've played, even though both are pretty generic fantasy for the main part. I guess the big thing for me is that you have to work for it in Ultima whereas in Bioware it gets thrust down your throat.

 

[Rake]

Things

While i agree in most parts, i think he just missunderstood you. His point was that Bioware then made BG2, which is considered one of the best RPGs around, and in fact is the RPG that is generaly considered the best RPG of all time by most old school fans (not the same as the Codex). It's the only game by Bioware that you can say it's a masterpiece, even if a part of the Codex loaths it, and most modern Bioware's problems are present there as well.
The thing is that they are there in so little doses, that by the time most of us didn't had a problem with them, and even liked them as something novel.
Only in retrospect we can see them as decline because we see how Bioware has become.

 

[Mother Russia]

Play a sorceror for your first time, or a specialized mage.

 

[Morality Games]

Your hate for Bioware is irrational, 2000's bioware has nothing to do with 2010's Bioware, especially after EA bought it. Drawing conclusion based on current repuation is stupid.
''if anyone other than Richard Garriot had done it, I think Ultima 7 could have been the best RPG around.''

2000s bioware? so you're talking about the one that made NWN, kotor and jade empire?

Uh, Ok lets say 1998-2001's Bioware. Around 2000 was what I was trying to say.

You wrote it correctly.

I think the things that make modern Bioware games so unenjoyable were already present in BG2. It's by no means the worst offender in games, but BG2 was already headed towards a more linear, theme-park style, with weird romances and spotty, often annoying companions, and what sometimes feels like filler combat. It has redeeming qualities to all of these--there are actual secrets, areas themselves have more to do in them than modern Bio games, there are some interesting encounters, and the companions fought and their strengths and weaknesses are little more distinct (and personal quests more interesting, though YMMV). But knowing where Bioware went after BG2 and already feeling sick of these elements, it's easy to have a lower opinion of BG2 now than before.

Hordes of the Underdark recaptured some of the old IE glory. And besides, Neverwinter was more or less self-consciously about the toolkit, with the OC being more or less intentional filler.

Knights of the Old Republic provided the bones of a good game that its sequel became (after the Restoration Mod) and was cool from an atmospheric and setting perspective.

Jade Empire was cool from an atmospheric and setting perspective.

None of them come close to Dragon Age II or Mass Effect 3's ending.

 

[Lilura]

Hordes of the Underdark recaptured some of the old IE glory.

lol

 

[Morality Games]

Hordes of the Underdark recaptured some of the old IE glory.

lol

In terms of bringing tabletop settings to life in a video game the Infinity Games engines were revolutionary. That's a historical achivement that happened regardless of what anybody does or says.

 

[Declinator]

Hordes of the Underdark recaptured some of the old IE glory.

lol

In terms of bringing tabletop settings to life in a video game the Infinity Games engines were revolutionary. That's a historical achivement that happened regardless of what anybody does or says.

Are you sure you're not thinking about Gold Box games. Because they were revolutionary in that regards but I don't really see what IE games brought to the table.

 

[Jvegi]

I like all BioWare games, except DA2.

 

[Rake]

I like all BioWare games, except DA2,ME1+2+3,KOTOR,JE,NWN

Fixd

 

[Lorica]

Hordes of the Underdark recaptured some of the old IE glory. And besides, Neverwinter was more or less self-consciously about the toolkit, with the OC being more or less intentional filler.

Knights of the Old Republic provided the bones of a good game that its sequel became (after the Restoration Mod) and was cool from an atmospheric and setting perspective.

Jade Empire was cool from an atmospheric and setting perspective.

None of them come close to Dragon Age II or Mass Effect 3's ending.

Of those, I've only played KotOR and NWN OC. I think both of those were a definite step down--made worse what was bad, removed some of the good. I don't really buy the argument about NWN getting a free pass because it was only there to show off the toolkit, nor do I think KotORII should cast a favourable light on KotOR.

The fact that you cite Bioware's two most recent (single player) games as the worst of their catalogue seems to indicate that you'd agree: Bioware's quality has been declining since BG2.

 

[Lhynn]

I like all BioWare games, except DA2,ME1+2+3,KOTOR,JE,NWN

Fixd

ME 1 is good, Kotor is decent (not worth a second playtrough tho), nwn is a fucking masterpiece of custom content, JE is alright, brought down by its combat mostly.

Btw, im not biased for or against bioshit like most codexers. Also

 

[Xeon]

I really enjoyed ME1 and ME2, I think mostly because it was a first experience of feeling like my choices kinda matters in the sequels.

 

[Rake]

I like all BioWare games, except DA2,ME1+2+3,KOTOR,JE,NWN

Fixd

nwn is a fucking masterpiece of custom content

And Bioware takes credit because....?
The Bioware part of NWN was shit. Because the fanbase part had some gems in it doesn't makes Bioware good. It makes them look even worse by comparison.

 

[Xeon]

I thought Bioware supported the modding community by updating their tools and making some kind of rewards for good modules or something.

 

[Lhynn]

I like all BioWare games, except DA2,ME1+2+3,KOTOR,JE,NWN

Fixd

nwn is a fucking masterpiece of custom content

And Bioware takes credit because....?
The Bioware part of NWN was shit. Because the fanbase part had some gems in it doesn't makes Bioware good. It makes them look even worse by comparison.

Well, Hordes of the Underdark isnt bad, and its kudos to bioware for making something thats easily moddable and offers such a wide array of options, unlike stuff like TESX it is actually aimed at roleplaying.