Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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teaser trailer for jagged alliance online is...online

Discussion in 'MMO(RP)G Discussion' started by primetide, Aug 12, 2011.

?

How do you like the JAO trailer

Poll closed Sep 1, 2011.
Nice. Has me intrigued... 0 vote(s) 0.0%
Nice idea but cheaply done. Ok, I guess. 0 vote(s) 0.0%
They get a pity vote at least...but I still like the game 0 vote(s) 0.0%
  1. Fens Arbiter Patron

    Fens
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    please elaborate on the mechanisms you have in place to balance paying vs. free players, primetide.
  2. Grunker RPG Codex Staff Patron

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    Bullshit. Leauge of Legends and other games are perfectly able to sustain themselves without demanding payment for gameplay-advantages. If you are going to demand payment for these things, then there is no point in making the game "free2play" - you might as well demand money per unit (which I would have no problem with).

    To be clear:

    I want a full game. Whether I pay for it or if it is free (with cosmetic and utility stuff that doesn't directly affect the gameplay open for purchase) is up to the developer. But I'm not going to go through the hassle of a million expensive micro-transactions to acquire a full game. Thus, paying for gameplay-advantages means I will not even consider playing the game; there's just no point in it. I won't be buying gameplay-stuff, and since I won't play half a game, the conclusion is pretty straight-forward.
  3. SoupNazi Arbiter

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    Will there be an option to "buy" the game and have access to all of the premium stuff, or will you always have to buy each item/bonus in a microtransaction?
  4. Mangoose Cipher

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    I can see it now. 10 years from now, F2P will be superceded by a new innovation: Subscriptions, where you can simply a flat rate per month and get all the microtransactions in one pack!
  5. zeitgeist Scholar

    zeitgeist
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    When these developers are bent on destroying everything Jagged Alliance stands for as an idea, computer games as an art form (and through this art as such), any semblance of culture still left in our civilization, and by extension, all that is good and pure and worth striving for in this world, I would rather see them perish, than any of the above.
  6. Excidium WOOOOORLD EATEEEEER

    Excidium
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    :salute:

    Item shops should be just for cosmetic and convenience items. This "pay to win" model you are adopting is something I thought F2P games were slowly getting rid of.
  7. primetide Barely Literate

    primetide
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    we are looking into two sorts of missions - those you can play alone with say 6 mercs or together - there may be a tatcical advantage to that if you for example want more "tank-type" mercs in a close quarters scenario, but don't want to rent them for extra dough. Another player may have the same desire...
    Then there are co-ops which simply require two teams at different entry points and co-ordinated action. I think we will wait for those until after launch, as they are the most difficult level design wise, so as not to make them too linear, but still have some real sharing of tasks.
  8. primetide Barely Literate

    primetide
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    This is a discussion we cannot win - it simply is a decision made also by the guys that pay us to develop the game. I fully appreciate your position and of course we are sad if this means you are not going to play. But subscriptions statistically make as much as 80% of potential players notplay the game, so this is not an option.
    However if there is a demand for that, we can indeed look into a "lifetime subscitpion" type option, which allows one to simply use all premium items.
    However, to answer the question of balancing, we have several way we try to prevent people from simply buying into success:
    1) the more high level items require a certain amount of 'fame' from the buyer to unlock. 'fame' is gained in PvP battles, so you cannot start by simply buying your way in with the plus 100% ubergun. You can basically buy slightly above your current level of fame
    2) a similar value exists for singöe player progression - your Merc Company (yes, you own one) must have a certain reputation to be considered attractive to work for by higher level mercs and weapons may also not be available to you. So again- a paying player can make his time easier, but he can't just jump the queue.
    3) Some mercs will even require more specific things, like 5 Bottles of Vodka/week. These need to be earned in missions (well that isn't the best example, as Vodka isn't really only available as a mission reward but you get the point).

    So, in essence, you need to work your way up the ladder regardless of paying or not paying real money. But of course player who pay, will have an easier time, get healed more quickly, buy slightly better equipment and thus better chances of winning. This in no way makes up for bad tactis, as the game can be quite punishing if you just waltz into a group of hostiles.

    But, again - it is F2P. If that means, you won't check out the game, we are sorry to loose you as a player.

    But in a game such as JAO, where player frequemtly will buy ammo, wepaons, healing, mercs and other stuff from a shop with in-game money, I consider it not toom much of a nuisance to also use real money to do the same.
  9. The_scorpion Scholar

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    Sounds as though these missions are at least not procedurally generated :salute:
    As to objectives in those missions... what do they offer? what will there be beyond go in and kill them all? thx
  10. Grunker RPG Codex Staff Patron

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    I like the fact that you are honest about the situation. I also appreciate that you don't throw a hissy-fit (as some developer's exposed to criticism on this board have done). An option to "purchase everything in one go", aka pay a big finite sum causing one to gain access to ALL gameplay-related content, would make me interested again. As this would be completely akin to buying a regular game.

    As is, however, I will follow your game from afar (since I'm interested in the type of game you are making), but there are very slim chances that I will actually play it.

    Regardless, I wish you luck with the actual game. This world has far too little turn-based action, and your attempt at constructing a modern TB-game is welcome.
  11. SoupNazi Arbiter

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    I completely agree with Grunker. Buying everything for one sum, similar to how Notch wants to do it in the future of Minecraft, is the only way I'll ever be willing to give JA:O a go. I feel as that would also make it easier to swallow for most people who loved JA but philosophically hold a grudge against anything F2P with microtransactions.

    This is definitely better than that turd JA:Reloaded though, either way.

    Edit: Also, did you start this in MMORPG Discussion or was it moved? Strategy Games would have been the better choice here :P
  12. primetide Barely Literate

    primetide
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    I think it was moved- I started it in general, I seem to recall.

    regarding mission objectives: we will add more as tiem continues, but for now we have: kill all, reach location and interact with object (so for example: get to the dictator's hideout's secret chamber or defuse that bomb)
    and yes, the level are all lovingly hand crafted and carefully balanced - or so we hope.

    Regarding F2P: I was very much in the same anti F2P camp for a long while, but my perspective shifted when we actually looked at the system and how you can make it less milking the player through the backdoor and more 'get the level of game you pay for'. But again: I can understand the philosophical differences.
  13. RK47 No time like the present Patron

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    This is good news! Let's hope it accelerates the death of the 'other' Jagged Alliance incarnation. I'd rather play this, than that crap.
  14. The_scorpion Scholar

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    what other JA incarnation? :smug:
  15. primetide Barely Literate

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    There is an offline version called JA: Back in Action which drops turn based in favor of a 'pause and go' real time with pause button game. It has been quite controversial so far with the fans.
  16. Excidium WOOOOORLD EATEEEEER

    Excidium
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    He knows, hence the :smug: emote. Better to just pretend that game doesn't exist.
  17. primetide Barely Literate

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    ah, sorry, didn't see the emote on my screen...just some funny signs. doh
  18. The_scorpion Scholar

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    :thumbsup:
  19. Ulminati I'm watching you... Scum. Patron

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    It's an agrument that's been made a thousand times. It saddens me that some developers still haven't listened.

    When it comes to microtransactions: Sell Convenience and Cosmetics.

    NEVER SELL POWER.

    NEVER EVER SELL POWER IN A PVP GAME.

    the end.

    Sorry, as much as I loved Jagged Alliance, I'm not going to give this game even a casual glance as long as players can buy advantages free players cannot earn. Catering to Wallet Warriors is inexcusably bad design.

    As much as linking to the escapist is borderline hanging offense 'round these parts, you would do well to pass this video around the studio: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... ansactions
  20. Zed RPG Codex Staff

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    Yearp. Never sell them powers. Don't do anyone no good. Hats and other stupid shit is alright though.

    Actually it works on one condition. Have servers reserved for non-powerbuying players. "Pure", "Normal" servers if you like.
  21. primetide Barely Literate

    primetide
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    funnily enough players in Russia and Asia often disagree - they WANT to outbuy the others.
    We will try and limit power buying to a degree - so for example you cannot buy your way to the top. superior weapons are only going to be usable by mercs with enough XP and players with enough reputation.

    But I think the seperate servers are a good idea - if enough people wouldplay on a clean server, we can make that work.
  22. sgc_meltdown Magister

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    if not seperate servers you could do a 'exclude subscription accounts' option, something like that for random games

    also if all goes well would you be willing to release figures to show that people still play turn based games
  23. primetide Barely Literate

    primetide
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    as we plan to do more turn based games we sure as hell will try and educate the world about them being a valuable source of income...if indeed they are, which of course remains to be proven.
  24. The_scorpion Scholar

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    come to think of it... i like the story of betrayal and revenge at which the trailer is hinting. Sounds a lot like Ja2 Vengeance. :P
    The question remains of course, how much story there'll be in an MMO in the first place :?
  25. primetide Barely Literate

    primetide
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    ah well, it is not going to be an epic storyline filled with rendescenes. Then again, our missions will be strung togtehrr into contracts creating a mini-campaign. Some of those will have a common theme main storyline and recurring characters. I am not saying it is worthy of a novel, but JA1 and 2 weren't exactly world class literature either.

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