Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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RTS Syrian Warfare - Destructive environment is not Dead?

Discussion in 'Strategy Gaming' started by mikaelis, Feb 21, 2017.

  1. Moose23gender: ⚧ Barely Literate

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    It looks like this just got pulled from Steam. It'll be interesting to hear the reasoning why, but I haven't been able to dig anything up.
     
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  2. Moinkgender: ⚧ Savant

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    Game seems to be removed from steam now, anyone have any idea why?
     
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  3. Make America Great Again Alienmangender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Probably someone took offense. Reading their Steam forum now.

    God forbid someone makes a game out of a current thing, movies are okay though.
     
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  4. FritzedProcessgender: ⚧ Learned

    FritzedProcess
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    It's kind of late (or early) now in Moscow, so we'll probably won't get any news until a few hours from now, but yes, a few hours ago the game was available, it's gone now. The usual troll is still running his mouth in the game's forums, though.

    Looks like the same PC kneejerk reaction that took Hatred (an otherwise unremarkable game) off the store for a couple of days. I sure hope the person responsible for this will be at the very least fired. Or beaten in the soles with a rubber hose.
     
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  5. Severian Silkgender: ⚧ Guest

    Severian Silk
    Problem with war games about recent conflicts is that people who play them tend to want more war. Generally not as big a problem with WWII games since it was so long ago.
     
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  6. FritzedProcessgender: ⚧ Learned

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    Hmmm, I don't see how that's a problem, or any relation to the game, the topic or the game going off the store, for that matter.

    I mean, HRC wanted more war and I don't think she played anything beyond Bejewelled.

    I think you need to chill out and listen to some music. Here:

     
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  7. Jimmiousgender: ⚧ Magister

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    The main problem for me is that a game about an ongoing conflict is making said conflict "fun" for the people that play it ,which is definitely not the image this conflict has for millions of people in the same time, somewhere else.

    Now to go as far as to remove the game and so on... That just gives them more press if anything.
     
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  8. Ranaramagender: ⚧ Educated

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    What is the point of simulating the Syrian conflict if I can't play the Russians and bomb the shit out of hospitals, play as ISIS or use Chemical weapons as the Syrian Army.
     
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  9. hivemindgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Because it's a game based on the real world and not a fantasy alternative.
     
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  10. Chamezerogender: ⚧ Guest

    Chamezero


    fags abusing the report system and/or ivans stealing shit
     
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  11. Galdredgender: ⚧ Generalist Patron

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    Wargamer.com published an interview of the devs:

     
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  12. Jimmiousgender: ⚧ Magister

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    Yup, exactly the first paragraph shows why the whole game idea is wrong basically. The obviously one sided point of view that depicts one side as heroes and the other one as evil terrorists in an ongoing conflict is , to say the least, problematic.

    And don't bust my balls, I'm not taking sides, for all I know both have committed extreme attrocities. The worst part is that no one knows what exactly happens there... Well except that there are thousands dying.
     
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  13. Galdredgender: ⚧ Generalist Patron

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    It is a shame, because they could easily have avoided this trap and tried to have a less "patriotic" view of the conflict.
     
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  14. Make America Great Again Darth Roxorgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis, Hater of Eternity

    Darth Roxor
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    Maybe donations from Putin require a stable praising of Russia, like in Tropico.
     
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  15. Dayyālugender: ⚧ Arcane

    Dayyālu
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    This leaves me pretty much cold, honestly, as US propaganda is all-pervasive and one has to learn to live with it. It's not whataboutism, but consider that I'm not American so US propaganda is pretty much at the same level as this for me. Propaganda can be enjoyed with a critical mindset, and evaluated for its own artistic (or the case of a game, gameplay-related) values. The game is fun? Good then, it's a good game with a Russian propaganda bent. It' not like I can't enjoy Aleksandr Nevskij or Soviet movies because they are propaganda, or American counter propaganda movies ( The Beast is hilarious in retrospective but it's still one of my favourite movies).

    Plus, you truly used "problematic"?
     
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  16. Norfleetgender: ⚧ Moderator

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    Doesn't just about EVERY video game tend to do this? You are the good guys, the other guys are faceless evil bad guys.
     
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  17. Galdredgender: ⚧ Generalist Patron

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    Wargames usually don't. Especially WW2 wargames, who make great effort to sidestep the political issues.
    You have an objectives, some forces to do it, and that's it.
     
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  18. Dayyālugender: ⚧ Arcane

    Dayyālu
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    Yeh, like WinSPMBT adding contemporary units but keepin' it very "neutral" and "wargamey". By personal experience, I know that many are quite unnerved by touchy subjects like contemporary warfare and its depictions (it's somewhat worse on the tabletop, where you can find people that flat out refuse to play anything set after WW2). Again, I don't have particularly strong feelings on the Syrian situation (it's a mess) so I'm rather curious how IN UR FACE the thing is. Russian movies are usually so unsubtle to be painful, but again, I don't think the game should be judged because it has a precise political message.

    After all, I hate

    [​IMG]

    this, because it's a shit game, not because it would have made Goebbels proud (and yes, CoH2 is so IN UR FACE to be considered propaganda of sorts).
     
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  19. Jimmiousgender: ⚧ Magister

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    Need I repeat that we are talking about an ongoing conflict? Yes games do these stuff and US companies even more but at least they create propaganda for previous conflicts.

    Also what's wrong with "problematic"?
     
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  20. Dayyālugender: ⚧ Arcane

    Dayyālu
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    What's the matter if this is ongoing? Poor taste? Wargaming and shooters in the Middle East are\were completely common. In the first Soldier of Fortune you mauled dozens of Iraqis, in CoDs you blast through hundreds of sand people and Russians.

    [​IMG]

    This could also be considered propaganda, even if less .... childish than a game named "Syrian Warfare".

    I haven't played this game (got a torrent, but torrents of Russkie games cause me to start having seizures in fear) but it seems rather blunt as propaganda. "We're good guys the others are terrorists, yeehh". Nothing different from what I see from RussiaToday, or from what I read from US military memoirs. Sure, US propaganda is subtler and more effective, avoiding such.... manichean pitfalls, but again, Russia is a far poorer country with a considerably less developed tech sector.

    "Problematic" has been misused so many times for fake problems (everything is "problematic" thanks to sex\race\gender issues) that I find difficult to take it seriously.
     
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  21. Jimmiousgender: ⚧ Magister

    Jimmious
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    Oh I see. English are not my nativ language, I found problematic "fitting" just because I don't really think the problem is propaganda per se (even if there is quite some in there) but ,for me, the lack of sensibility for such a conflict.

    They obviously seem to think it's not even a war rather than a heroic act of the Russian forces. I find the whole thing too much, what can I say. In the same time you see dismembered corpses in the news, you can also "play" that.

    In any case I'm not so concerned as it looks I just find this stuff weird
     
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  22. Make America Great Again baturinskygender: ⚧ Arcane

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    "Subtler"? For me it looks just bat shit crazy and self-contradicting often even inside one article in one paper. They write something, like, rebels are not terrorist, but some of them are terrorists, and "some" means "most", but some of them are still democratic cuties that fight for freedom, so it's forbidden to bomb them, even if they fire at same directoon from the same hole as some AQ guy, and even US can't distinguish them from each other.

    Russian propaganda is, at least, self-consistent. And only "serious" fuckups in it I have noticed is using word "terrorist" instead of "muslim fundamentalist that aim to behead everyone that is not exactly same breed of muslim", and mixing up names of terrorist organisations with each other (calling some al-Shits ISIS etc).
     
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  23. Dayyālugender: ⚧ Arcane

    Dayyālu
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    I am not willing to start a serious discussion on US propaganda and compare it with Russian efforts, but it's merely reality. I am not by all regards a particularly pro-NATO or pro-US man, but one has to admit that the amount of "soft power" they have in the vast majority of countries (books, movies, games, documentaries) is astounding. I can turn on my TV set (haven't done that for ages) and I get US-produced series and movies that glorify the US military and US values and beliefs, all dutifully translated in my own language.

    Less "subtle" attempts (one has merely to read EUObserver or Politico to see hysterical articles about those eeeeevil Russians with rusty Soviet tech on the verge of invaaaaading Euuuuropeeee) are compensated by a clear dominance of the public discourse. I mean, nowadays we care more about the US president than our own elections.

    But this is off topic.

    EDIT:Checked one of the sites, what I get on the main page

    https://euobserver.com/foreign/137153

    Eeeevil Russsiaaaaans :lol::lol::lol:
     
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  24. Make America Great Again The Brazilian Slaughtergender: ⚧ Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    I want a Islamic State campaign! Suicide bombers, car bombs, chaos and mayhem! Gold money! Oil extraction!
     
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  25. Norfleetgender: ⚧ Moderator

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    So, basically, only games with no story do this. If you view this as something more in the vein of Command & Conquer, it's very clear which side is the good guys and which side are the bad guys. Red Alert, for instance, made it very clear that YOU ARE THE BAD GUYS if you play Soviet from the very first mission.
     
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