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Decline Sword Coast Legends Pre-Release Thread

Immortal

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Bolded part is the CEO's response to a random 12 year old butt hurt fanboy:
This is embarrassing...

CEO For Sword Coast Legends said:
Please do not confuse PR with transparency.

Semantics. I could not even spell PR. I have done my best to be straight and to the point, to a fault at times. And I encourage the same in my staff.

There was 2000 posts long topic on this forum asking a simple question : Will we able to use companions in singleplayer custom games.
It took over 2 weeks and 2000 posts to get one simple sentence answer.

I'm glad you brought this up as I almost included this exact point from your earlier post in my previous response. The number of posts doesn't determine the time required to make a decision or answer a question. What matters is that we heard the request and made it happen before the first head start. Had we answered originally, it would have been NO. Again, that's a no win situation. We encourage feedback and have already established a pattern of being very responsive to it. That will continue and we intend to support this game for as long as the community will. I've said over and over again that we are just getting started. If you want a voice in this you have to accept that it is a process. I will not promise immediate answers, regardless of the volume of commentary. If it is important enough to do, it is worth thinking through, doing right and answering correctly.

How about being transparent about modifications to D&D rule system. Im not saying its bad or that it should not be done. But it was never mentioned - we are talking here about the game for one of most hardcore nerd community. Didnt you think they would kind of be interested to hear about that ?

We've said from the beginning that it was based on 5e rules and even commended WotC for their willingness to be flexible with the same to in order to deliver the best experience. We have been playing the game live for months now. How can that possibly result in criticism that we are hiding the rules?

Even now - do we know how long is official campaign ? 99% of RPGs disclose this fact before release.

This makes me laugh. We have been on record for several months that the story campaign is 30-50 hours, depending on your play style, perhaps a bit longer for some. I repeat that answer several times in each twitch session, where i answer questions directly.

In fact most of game is still black box. And for no reason at all.

This is pretty ridiculous, frankly. You have mentioned two areas that you felt were hidden. Answers to both are widely available. Maybe I'm missing something, but the information you seek is out there. n-Space could probably do a better job of making it easier to find, but honestly I answer the same questions over and over and over again, no matter how easy it is to find the answer, some people prefer to have it handed to them.

Hence the transparency will go long way. Explaining exactly what is your vision for the game and how you are going to achieve it with clear road map , skill/class previews ... etc

Yes, and that is why I promised to deliver a road map. Long before this thread started. I am glad you agree.

This is one of biggest mistakes developer can make. Dont you read Gamasutra or related developer blogs ? How many games failed due to fan disservice. You have to realize that some forum "fanboys" will defend the game no mater what. Its like cheering for home team. Than when the game is released developers get flabbergasted about bad reception game is getting. "Fans on our forums told us the game is perfect!"

Gamasutra? No, I've never heard of it. Come on man. We know better than to fall for the positive or get wrapped up in the negative. It works both ways. Throughout the development of SCL we have solicited the opinions of our internal team, our external partners, friends and family, extended friends and family, the community and unbiased external consultants, even going so far as to pay for mock reviews, etc. I've released over 40 games. Some very good, some very bad. I've seen it all.

Thanks. This helpful info
Basically - There will be no changes to game prior to release , except network bug fixes.

Uh, no, that's not what I said, nor a reasonable conclusion to draw. What I did say is that the additional time is being used for bug fixing, polishing and tuning. If you look back at the published release notes for HS2 you will see a large number of improvements, many based on community feedback, that were implemented in only a week. For HS3 we essentially re-released HS2 with network fixes. Even then that sells the changes short as we implemented a number of UI changes to better inform players of network conditions, help them choose games, identify dungeon masters, etc. We chose to make HS3 so similar to HS2 because we wanted to keep the majority of the team focused on the longer term goal. Prepping a build involves a lot of work - merging changes, testing, etc. etc. It is a major time sink that detracts from the larger goal. Everyone can expect the release notes for HS4 to be much more comprehensive.

If you are one of the few accusing n-Space of lying or intentionally misleading, please feel free to message me directly. I will happily and personally see that you are refunded your full purchase amount. You see, my personal integrity and that of the company that I built over the last 20+ years means a lot more to me than the price of your purchase.

Lying is harsh word. I am 100% sure you are outstanding chap that loves this game with passion.
But its business - You are responsible for the game selling and for people getting their salary on the end of the day. So you are worried about reactions - and thats understandable.

Yes, lying is a very harsh word. Likewise are calls against the integrity of n-Space or the people that work here. It is not in my nature to take those lightly. Recall my previous comment about PR. I am not "worried" about reactions. I am confident that the product we have made meets or exceeds what we set out to do and that we will continue to build on that success, growing SCL as a platform to build, share and play D&D adventures for years to come.

This is not personal. In fact based on what i seen so far , i think there is team at N-Space of highly professional and talented people that love D&D and is trying to make the best game possible in extremely short time And this is the core of the problem : Expectations vs What you can actually possibly deliver.

And that is why i say : Manage the Expectations better

I can only put information out there. People cast into that what they want to see. The formation of expectations is a two way street. Even in this thread there are folks bemoaning that SCL is not at all what they expected and others that are entirely satisfied. As I've said before, I'm sure we could do better and we strive for continual improvement.
 
Weasel
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I've never seen such scrotum-licking fanboism as on those threads. They are actually applauding him churning out that shit and talking about "rolling 20s".
 

Mustawd

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What's the biggest drawback of this would you say?

Is it dumbed down D&D or is it dumbed down cRPG in general?

If I'm being completely honest this game seems ok to me. A bit simplistic, sure, but if a good module is created, a la NWN, I think I could have some fun. Right now my main concern is it seems to lack tactical gameplay, but maybe it's because the DM's aren't challenging the players enough.

Maybe it's because I'm not a PnP player, but some of the things cited as a negative, like cooldowns, don't seem to justify some of the rage.

Is this just a case of having fun hating a mainstream game? Or is this truly an abomination?
 
Weasel
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This is a game where level one players can kill beholders or dragons so nobody feels "excluded" from modules due to their level. Where the major selling point is "DM mode" but DMs aren't trusted to place loot which is random and scaled. I could go on... even getting started on the mechanics would just get my blood pressure up.
 

Immortal

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What's the biggest drawback of this would you say?

Is it dumbed down D&D or is it dumbed down cRPG in general?

If I'm being completely honest this game seems ok to me. A bit simplistic, sure, but if a good module is created, a la NWN, I think I could have some fun.

That won't happen.. Haven't you been reading this thread? The toolset is extremely hamstrung.
You can't customize companions, craft / place items, control level shape, etc..

Scripting System? Hahahahaha

This thing is like a poor man version of what shipped with Neverwinter Online.. Doesn't even scratch the surface of what you got in NWN.
 

Lhynn

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Is this just a case of having fun hating a mainstream game? Or is this truly an abomination?
Its an abomination, and dont even dream of making anything of half the quality than the worst nwn module you can find.
 

Tigranes

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Basically: (1) D&D, except more like some random Transylvanian pirate copy of a badly translated D&D rulebook, (2) Toolset, except you can't do shit with it.
 

ArchAngel

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Basically: (1) D&D, except more like some random Transylvanian pirate copy of a badly translated D&D rulebook, (2) Toolset, except you can't do shit with it.
Badly translated was NWN1 Mage Armor that gave +1 to 4 different AC values instead if +4 to Armor. SCL is more like a monkey rewritten the book.
 

getter77

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That thread, and how it went immediately well off the rails, is astounding. I've not seen such an attempt to sell a nebulously defined vision that plies a trade on contorting/distorting nostalgia and such scurrying water carriers since the debacle that is the Retro VGS console. To think, that D&D can have such a thing wind up so bungled despite all their experience and resources----yet The Dark Eye folks can get something along the lines of Demonicon banged out without the tiniest bit of furor or attempts to cultivate delusions of grandeur.

I'd like to think there's a draft #1 of their initial pitch in a rubbage heap someplace that includes Daggerdale in their vaunted line drawing as the circumstances eerily befit.
 

Drowed

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This will flop so bad, I can almost feel all the butthurt in the Steam forums and everywhere else.

Seeing the games fail is becoming something of a fetish lately, especially in recent years since we finnaly have some good games around. Suddenly, I can simply not give a fuck if some D&D game is atrocious - I have more games to play than time to play them. Instead, I can look foward to a lot of internet drama and fucked developers.
 

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As early as when I discovered the game it was pretty apparent that it will be shit. I think it was this February.

By now what's interesting, aside from the fun of watching the butthurt festivities, is how best to identify such projects, which deliberately - through name-dropping older successful titles and twisting the descriptions of their games' own features - mislead people who are simply naive, or too uninformed and prone to preorder without sufficient information.

I think the best method for anticipating an SCL-like title is to watch interviews with the project lead and listen for marketing cliches and namedropping, and also for the lack of authenticity and enthusiasm for his own project. I think that's the way to identify the projects who are geared just to reach maximum first-week sales and hope that will be enough to turn profit and then call it a day. Watching actual developers is also interesting as they are usually less proficient in marketspeak and let you read between the lines more, allowing you to spot game features which are purposefully conceived as popamole.

I'm sure that although the game is indisputable shit, there will still be enough shit-eaters to sing its praises. I hope the disappointed camp will be large enough to be spotted by reviewers though, and that, this being the first 5e game, SCL will serve as a warning, so we may get a decent next 5e cRPG from some other developer, who is actually interested in more than the PR effect of calling his game "5e D&D".
 

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They are making a big mistake.

Roleplaying games, and the CRPG that derive from them, were for many years a small niche with a loyal and enthusiastic public. 15-20 years ago, things started to change. Some titles would go mainstream, moving out of the niche and making some concessions towards less hardcore players (be it action combat, visuals becoming more relevant, easier to learn gameplay, etc.) but, for the most past, they were intelligent enough to still keep enough mechanics, strategy and exploration to still appease the RPG hardcore gamers. The genre was enriched. All was good.

Business logic, however, kept pressing towards "sell more copies", instead of "make a classic". Generic management stars like Dan Tudge will raise in the ranks and be the ones in charge, because they bring profit. Meanwhile, guys like Avellone keep bouncing around.

And eventually they've decided they no longer need the hardcore RPGers, because what they sell is a mass-product, and appeasing hardcore RPGrs would give them 95% of the work and 5% of the sales. They no longer see as a valuable resource the connection to PnP, the complex mechanics or strategy, because their marketing people is telling them that DA:O average player doesn't even know what a PnP game is. What they don't realize is, that market was originated around the original niche of hardcore players, and it will be their loss in the end. They don't understand the 5% is what makes the other 95% possible, at least in an official DnD title. They don't understand the criticism is not an attack, but an opportunity to improve their game.
 
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Divinity: Original Sin 2
I dunno, I watched the 40 minute gameplay footage they put out yesterday and while it didn't look as good as the greats like Baldur's Gate/Planescape etc, it still seemed like a fairly decent RTwP isometric cRPG title.

some person on linked forum

i'm pretty new here, maybe my mindset is too alien. but i don't like D&D for RTwP or... err... isometric look? i'm not sure who's the target audience. i don't think it's "grongnards" and certainly not people who believe isometric view belongs to '80ties.
hipsters then?
 

Space Insect

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i'm pretty new here, maybe my mindset is too alien. but i don't like D&D for RTwP or... err... isometric look? i'm not sure who's the target audience. i don't think it's "grongnards" and certainly not people who believe isometric view belongs to '80ties.
hipsters then?
D&D games that are more mainstream have been known for RTwP. But the worst thing about that comment is that it looks like there is no RTwP in SCL.
 

prodigydancer

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Last edited:
Weasel
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Once again watching the fallout of a game is more fun than the actual game. :lol:

Agreed. I wasted time checking this out back when it was announced so now just enjoying some drama.

Overnight a couple of the angriest threads disappeared and a new post about "rules" came out. Can't wait to see what happens when this turd is excreted on the 20th as even the biggest fanboys are still arguing "they're keeping stuff back" and "they're still improving it".
 
Self-Ejected

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They deleted that thread for some reason.
 

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