Decline Sword Coast Legends Pre-Release Thread

[Grunker]

^ Roguey is refering to the generally huge HP and stat increase on 4E "solo" monsters.

 

[tuluse]

Of course you can just dump a bunch of HP on a monster in any edition if that's what you want to do. Or make up something that causes it to heal periodically.

 

[king_of_madness]

Less successful is still successful.

When you have as strong as brand D&D, breaking even on the core product and having no spin-offs whatsoever is not succesful. I know you are bullheaded, but claiming 4th ed was successful is absurd. It's easily the most catastrophic error Wizards have commited.

4e was outselling Pathfinder until Mid-2011 if ICv2 is to be trusted. And even after Wizard's had essentially dropped all support and ceased publishing new books for 4e it still managed to stay in the top 5.

 

[jimmy_pvish]

Less successful is still successful.

When you have as strong as brand D&D, breaking even on the core product and having no spin-offs whatsoever is not succesful. I know you are bullheaded, but claiming 4th ed was successful is absurd. It's easily the most catastrophic error Wizards have commited.

At the time 4e is active, D&D video game license is on the lawsuit nightmare.
WoTC just got the license back 2 years ago.

And second, you must know, D&D fate is already doom when WoTC was takeover by Hasbro.

Hasbro's policy is, they separate their product into 2 groups, major and minor.
Major product got unlimited funded and take the major spot in gaming store.
Minor product got less funded and sleeping in the corner of the store.

The line for major/minor product?
To gain major product status, that product must sell more than 100m$/year.

When WoTC was brought by Hasbro, this is not something to be concern,
their product sale already exceed that line.
But the problem is, Hasbro decide to separate MTG and D&D apart and treat them as different products.
MTG enjoy their major status but what's about D&D?

At that time, D&D sale is around 30-35m$/year (3.5 edition)
and they are already no.1 best selling on P&P market!
This is why they cancel 3.5, their sale number is not enough.

Then 4e was introduce, to aim for 50m$/year first.
And they are fine when it hit the markets for a couple of years.
It's rank no.1 best seller P&P on the markets and claim the most successful launch of all editions.

But on year 3, Wizards try to introduce "Essentials" to lure back the old customer they lose to Pathfinder.
Remember, their goal is to reach 100m$/year, 50m$ is just a first step.
For summary, Essentials is the bastard child of 4e and 3.5. Someone call it 4.5e.

That's when shit hit the fan.
Essentials move is somethings they decide on the fly,
they stop release new book supplement for 1 full year to make Essentials.
At that time Pathfinder introduce 3 new books supplement and claim no.1 sell on the P&P markets.

And when Essentials finish, it's flop hard.
4e customer hate it, Pathfinder customer didn't care about it.
It fail so hard that many did't ever know it's exist.

They release new Essentials supplement for just 1-2 year and decide to throw the white flag,
crawling back to old 4e format but the damage is already done.
4e customer already moving on to other game. (myself including, my gaming group already switch to shadowrun).
Less than 1 year, 4e got cancel and 5e was introduce

5e is maybe the last dance for D&D, to reach the ridicule number of 100m$/year.
But I doubt it, IMO 5e is doom from the start no matter how well they will do,
P&P markets is not large enough to reach that goal.

 

[Grunker]

Less successful is still successful.

When you have as strong as brand D&D, breaking even on the core product and having no spin-offs whatsoever is not succesful. I know you are bullheaded, but claiming 4th ed was successful is absurd. It's easily the most catastrophic error Wizards have commited.

4e was outselling Pathfinder until Mid-2011 if ICv2 is to be trusted. And even after Wizard's had essentially dropped all support and ceased publishing new books for 4e it still managed to stay in the top 5.

It seems you didn't read my posts. Of course 4th ed outsold Pathfinder, it's D&D. Pathfinder is just a niche product for those in the know, 4th ed had the brand of the world's most popular roleplaying game. It could rely solely on brand strength to do well. Every single one of my P&P friends own a copy of 4th ed, because they still had brand loyalty.

None own a copy of 5E. Yet there is not doubt it is a game they'd enjoy more. Reputation, glass, etc.

Arguing from sales figures really is the number one sign you're not even trying. Not only is it judging quality by popularity, but it also assumes that popularity is just a product of perceived quality.

 

[Trodat]

http://www.gamerevolution.com/preview/sword-coast-legends

From Dragon Age: Origins to Divinity: Original Sin, the d20-based RPG has been a mainstay in gaming whose flame will hopefully never extinguish. Sword Coast Legends, the upcoming RPG from n-Space and Digital Extremes with a partnership with Wizards of the Coast, plans to continue the tradition of the genre and modernize it by adding a Dungeon Master mode, a mode where one player can guide and challenge a team of players in real-time. It reminds me of a time when I would take out my aggression on poor fools by spawning ogres and cutting their character's feet off for rolling critical failures. Such fun!

In the thirty-minute hands-off demo shown behind closed doors at GDC 2015, I observed a party of four characters comprised of three fixed characters and a created character of your choice (from six classes and five races) move through the city sewers beneath the city of Luskan, which fans of The Forgotten Realms will recognize. The group consisting of a fighter, rogue, cleric, and wizard delved through the dungeon, picking up potions at a nearby alchemy table and scouring for loot like a +2 Longsword from a corpse, all while being controlled in third-person by a single player.

Pursuing an Ashen Priest, a necromancer responsible for destroying The Order of the Burning Dawn, the party had to first deal with the Dead Rats gang. Fighting off scouts and thugs in the sewers isn't too difficult, so long as each of your party members remains true to their role. The fighter tanks and controls threat, the cleric provides defense and minor healing, the wizard can blast groups with fireballs and lightning, and the rogue can deal quick damage and unlock chests and hidden doors. Based on the fifth edition ruleset for Dungeons & Dragons, combat doesn't seem as brutal as Original Sin but also not as automatic as a pure action game, relying on player tactics and positioning. At any time, players can pause or un-pause combat for a more careful approach and use up to ten abilities on a hotkey bar.

Dialogue choices will play a major role in how other NPCs react to your party. At one point in the demo, your party meets an informant in a tavern and which dialogue choices you pick for the Irish-voiced character, Tam Olefsson, can affect his overall attitude. That said, the informant seems to be a part of a major questline so we'll see if it really matters in the long run. Where you can influence the story more is in choosing whether to save a character, like Sir Banagar, a knight who is sent to capture your party earlier in the game. If you do, he will appear later in the story and can be recruited as an AI-controlled ally against the hordes of undead and one giant zombie ogre. Outside from that, you'll hear plenty of well-placed banter between your party members in the downtime while traversing between battles.

In Dungeon Master mode, one chosen player directs an experience much like the role of the same name in a formal pen-and-paper Dungeons & Dragons setting. Before play, the dungeon master can choose the relative dungeon size, theme, tile set, overall complexity, and general encounters, and then view the randomly generated dungeon as the other players run through in real-time. The Dungeon Master can use certain amounts of Threat to increase the difficulty of dungeons, adding ambushes, traps, and locks. Of course, the DM can also make battles easier by removing enemies too, though the best DMs don't try to wipe the party greedily or make the game too breezy. DMs will be rated by the community, so we'll see what kind of DMs people prefer.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

This just sounds worse and worse.

 

[Bubbles]

From Dragon Age: Origins to Divinity: Original Sin, the d20-based RPG has been a mainstay in gaming whose flame will hopefully never extinguish.

 

[Athelas]

Both of those were RPG Codex GOTY's.

 

[prodigydancer]

Both of those were RPG Codex GOTY's.

But neither was a D&D game so why even mention d20? And how can the DM mode "modernize" the genre if we had it in NWN and NWN2?

 

[Athelas]

But neither was a D&D game so why even mention d20?

Presumably it's because SCL's systems will have about as much in common with D&D's as those games did.

 

[bloodlover]

Both of those were RPG Codex GOTY's.

But neither was a D&D game so why even mention d20? And how can the DM mode "modernize" the genre if we had it in NWN and NWN2?

I am just guessing over here but maybe the DM will be able to influence the game on the spot not just before the dungeon starts.

 

[Grunker]

But neither was a D&D game so why even mention d20?

Presumably it's because SCL's systems will have about as much in common with D&D's as those games did.

Masterful

 

[Grunker]

If this game turns out to be decent, which is still a possibility, I predict a lot of Codexers will shun it simply because of the faux-D&D trappings and claims of hardcore-ness.

 

[clemens]

We will shun it because it's just gonna be another shitty single player mmo with cooldowns, calling itself "that thing we think you like : the game".

 

[Grunker]

My point is that they're trying to do that 'appeal to everyone'-thing and I'm not sure how well that actually works. They might just turn off casuals with all that oldschool talk all the while turning off us with the actual mechanics.

 

[AbounI]

WTF!

DMs can only create some randomly generated dungeons with only a limited control on a few parameters.Shit!

 

[Roguey]

When you have as strong as brand D&D, breaking even on the core product and having no spin-offs whatsoever is not succesful. I know you are bullheaded, but claiming 4th ed was successful is absurd. It's easily the most catastrophic error Wizards have commited.

Well my original point was that some people have to like/want that kind of gameplay for WotC to creatre official rules for it. Not necessarily a majority of tabletop players, but "quite a few."

ToEE had it with the balor, though it achieved that effect through sky-high AC and, even though it's an illusion of difference, it seems like a lot of people would prefer to beat down a ton of HP than miss 50-70% of their attacks.

 

[Murk]

Less successful is still successful.

When you have as strong as brand D&D, breaking even on the core product and having no spin-offs whatsoever is not succesful. I know you are bullheaded, but claiming 4th ed was successful is absurd. It's easily the most catastrophic error Wizards have commited.

Well played sir ;D

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Roguey is this you trolling the SCL forums? I'd like to believe this isn't a genuine post but I guess that's wishful thinking.

https://forums.swordcoast.com/index...-basic-questions-character-creation-and-such/
https://forums.swordcoast.com/index.php?/topic/307-character-creation-wishes-hairstyles-and-more/

I know of many games which do not allow pale females. Which is a hit or miss.. sadly white females are being clumped into the tan/ sun kissed skin tones..I often quit games due to not liking my character at all..Story can be great and all, but if I am not visually happy *shrugs* just a me thing

Often is there is a pale white skintone.. it's tied to the B****y eye brows with hard arch.. or heavily caked on gothic make up. I understand the typical gamer is a male who finds the angry B a turn on..and a large percentage of female gamers also find the appeal of a tough B find that empowering and an outlet... I guess I am expressing a different interest for gamers who like playing the innocent idealist . Kind hearted healer types.

I guess my big fear is the faces will a have that top b brow arch, I hope Harlot is right and there will be a range of skin tones. The milky white being one of them ♥

 

[Shannow]

That sure was a lot of words to basically say: yeah you're right it's D&D in name only.

I don't give a shit whether you like or dislike D&D. What you seem to have been missing from the outset is that I've solely discussed whether the game will be related to/be a faithful adaption of D&D. What you think about D&D or creatures with 50 million HP is completely irrelevant to that point.

When your reply to a post saying "this probably has shit to do with D&D" is "well I hate D&D anyway lol" I am tempted to write QED and let it rest.

You seem so angry. Chill, bro.
For someone who doesn't care what I think you sure asked a lot. Among other things to convince you to be positive about this game. While I never had any intention of convincing you of anything, I happily presented my/alternative POVs.
And what's this constant black and white with you? I never said I hated D&D. Just don't love it like you seem to do, and wouldn't discount a game on the mere fact that it didn't implement rules faithfully.

If this game turns out to be decent, which is still a possibility, I predict a lot of Codexers will shun it simply because of the faux-D&D trappings and claims of hardcore-ness.

It's like what I was saying all along. You flip-flopping at a stage where the game looks more and more like it's going to be shit. It boggles the mind.

 

[Grunker]

I'm flip-flopping?

Point to the place where I say "this will definetely be shit." Do it. I'll wait.

Just don't love it like you seem to do

Motherfucker you are thick. This has nothing to do with liking D&D or not. I was discussing whether the adaptation would be faithful or not. It's a pretty obvious difference.

wouldn't discount a game on the mere fact that it didn't implement rules faithfully.

Which I did where? I was criticizing their use of the trademark.

I hate pulling that card, but your post is almost nothing but strawmen. I basically said nothing of what you're implying I said.

 

[Telengard]

Yes, if you want to direct your tirade at someone, Shannow, it should be me, since I predicted that GM would be shit like this:

GM MODE IN A NUTSHELL
Players: Moar orcs pl0x!
GM: Okay.
Players: Oh noes! We dying! Hep! Hep!
GM: Summon Drizzt.

And I now add this addendum.

Player: Yeah! We won!
Player: GG
Player: Totally awesome GMing, bro!
GM: Thanks ; )

 

[Wulfric Pinewood]

[As alwayz forgive my English writing im just troll from long and long forgotten country].
As long as they stay away from edition 4 of DnD and trying to keep "soul" of best moments of NwN or BG it will be hard to mess this game. Im really missing times when we had new games based on DnD quite often.
Even NwN 2 with MoB or SoZ , was allright. Im pretty hungry for more classical and well known for everyone settings like DnD.
Sure games like that are almost always high-fantasy with its heroic/epic counterparts but few last years of constat bombardment of post-apo, sci-fi, survival, "complicated & mature & grim" settings, self created short lived universes or another Dark Eye based "tight ass" german humour could be quite depressing for old crpg fan .
It will be great to sit once again with fellow dwarves, elves, barbarians, clerics etc. over mug of ale in classy tavern, while hearing some simple quest or dialogue lines that we heard already thousand times before .
Go DnD!
Also it bugs me forver why nobody made good and modern crpg based on Games Workshop Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay [im not counting mmo crap] it's one of the greatest sins of gaming industry to this day

 

[prodigydancer]

Also it bugs me forver why nobody made good and modern crpg based on Games Workshop Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay [im not counting mmo crap]

Hey! WAR was actually pretty good and had way nicer community than most other MMOs. (Though I hardly did any PvE there so my experience is limited to RvR.)