Editorial Swen Vincke: Gaming journalists don't get Divinity: Original Sin

[hiver]

Yeah I hope whatever they decide to do doesn't make me slog through a tutorial. It doesn't really matter to me if it's a financial success. Didn't Swen say in a blog not to long ago that lifetime sales are more important than initial sales? I'd say the best strategy for financial success is make a good game, previews be damned.

If you appreciate a game or its creators, their financial success should very much be a concern. As for "a good game sells itself", bullshit spewed by publishers (or emasculated devs).

Here, this article offers a nice reality check, and some lols:
Five PR tips indies shouldn't read

My favorite part:

If a single website writes negatively about your game, it’s more likely that other websites will be influenced by that: the press often doesn’t have time to come up with opinions of their own and will refer to one another to find out what opinion is popular to have. Most websites will follow the more accepted opinion while some are known to intentionally chose an opposing statement.

In case you didn't know:
That favorite part of yours is meant ironically, just like the rest of that article.

who let this in and who gave it human rights?

I pretty much agree with it btw, this nonsense about gaming journos copypasting from each other and being too stupid to think on their own seems immature, arrogant gamer trash talk to me.

... i wonder what are its favorite "game media" outlets, dont i just.

 

[NotAGolfer]

*Sigh*
Why did I have to click that show ignored content button?
And why can't you just ban that fucker?
He's extremely obnoxious.

 

[John_Blazze]

Larian should get YouTubers involved in a big way. The gaming "press" are fucking useless, if not blatantly corrupt. I think good coverage and word of mouth from YouTubers like TB would do more for the game than any shit IGN will come up with

Sadly, this.

 

[Infinitron]

Swen retweeted this: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s0reu1

This is a sort of open letter regarding @laratlarian's blog post in which he talked about the press, and their ability to understand Divinity: Original Sin.

Blog here: http://www.lar.net/2014/03/07/educating-players/

I have some experience in getting major coverage for a niche indie RPG/RTS on Kickstarter with some success, so here are my two cents on this.

"[T]here are still a lot of journalists out there who think of Divinity:Original Sin as a Diablo clone or a Diablo clone with tactical combat."

So, quite briefly, the problem is with getting journalists to take the time required to properly understand how Divinity: Original Sin -- as Vincke laments in his blog.

So let's get started.

It has been a long time since RPGs of this type have been in the mainstream. Creating a AAA RPG with no hand-holding, even with turn-based combat alone isn't something a lot of publishers would be open to. They wouldn't be open to it precisely because it's too difficult to market. It's too difficult to market precisely because it breaks various trends and design principles, and alienates a large part of the gaming/journalist community.

It isn't a sandbox, it is a story-based RPG, but it doesn't tell you where to go, what to do, or how to complete various objectives. This is a unique selling point, but it's also a curse.

When a developer hands over a game to a journalist, the developer is smiling excitedly. He thinks "go, free! Do as you please! Break our game!" but the journalist is thinking "okay, well, I only have a certain amount of time here, and if I don't work out what this game is about my editor will kill me."

Games journalists love games, but it's still work, and even in the simplest of games they are trying to get as far as possible, and get as broader understanding of the game as possible in a preview type environment. The idea that they should be plunged into it and work it out in their own time is an inherently difficult proposition, because they're often not on their own time.

To get around this, most PR companies will have their developers prepare some basic notes -- even hand out a walkthrough. I got some rather lengthy notes for Blackguards, even though it's a very simple linear turn based RPG. Who needs notes for that? But this is indicative of the culture we're performing in now'days. Instant, reliable, feature-full content. We barely have any time to ENJOY things (but we enjoy our jobs on the whole, etc). I manage to avoid this by working entirely freelance for my own magazine, and we provide fewer previews, but previews with more depth. With so many magazines, that's surely the best way. Anyway.

The unique selling points of Divinity: Original Sin are selling points for a niche audience; to a marketer, or journalist, they are a headache. I have seen journalists complaining that they cannot work out how to get through a part of South Park: The Stick of Truth. There was a thread on a journalist board somewhere, where someone needed help with a puzzle on Thief (a game where the puzzles tell you exactly how to do them...) When journalists get stuck, they get frustrated. Again, perhaps not everyone, and perhaps it's not my place to say it, but often I see games punished because journalists cannot get past a certain point to meet deadlines.

So to some degree journalists want an easy ride when it comes to 'working things out', however they enjoy difficulty - usually. This is perhaps one of the reasons RPGs have become so watered down over the years. To get good scores, you need an easily marketable game that can be assessed very quickly with very little time. Winning factor. Bad design principles.

Copying the YouTube format.

If you want a job at GameSpot or something, you better hope you can write, produce, star in, and edit your own preview or review videos lightning fast. As someone who does this himself, I can tell you it is incredibly difficult. It simply isn't viable to spend over 10 hours in a game world, and then write, edit, produce a video to a deadline. It'd take you 3 solid days to get a good video out. For my Original Sin preview, I decided to mix up a let's play formula and show the basic features because I knew I didn't have time to do it justice as a proper preview, so I didn't try to. Others will half-ass it, to save time. But what do you want, half-assed coverage, or no coverage?

Divinity: Original Sin demands A LOT of time from players (which is a good thing!) but it also demands A LOT of time from press, which is not such a good thing. The press can sometimes be resentful when they get frustrated. It is actually worth remembering that education is an important factor, too. Remaining critical under pressure is something you learn at university, and it's a skill. There will be a lot of people who say to themselves "How the fuck am I supposed to complete this fucking quest with these vague fucking tips?" Those vague tips are humor - humor that is lost on a frustrated, rushed journalist. A good journalist will not face this issue, or at least he'll handle it, so if you read this and get pissed off at me, you might be a bad journalist The calmer you are, the better you probably are at your job

So I am being critical of the press here, and I think that's fair, but it's also fair to say that throwing them in and expecting good results is wrong. They need to be hand-held just to save time. They are not the end consumer. They need to be shown unique features. Few will try and put a bucket on his head, but 100% of journalists who are shown it will react well, and understand such features are part of the humor, and they'll be noted.

Those are my two cents. The press want an easy ride to meet targets, and the marketing managers at publishers know this, that's why games like CRPGs faded out of existence. I mean AAA publishers of course, because there are publisher who cater to a niche, and they know how to do that.

Really, in my opinion, if you are worried about the game appealing to certain types of people who have expressed confusion or laziness, then you are wasting time, money, and energy in appealing to them. Readers are the most vocal and most critical. If someone puts out a shit preview, or review, he will be made aware of that by fans.

The press, now'days, want projects spoonfed to them. There is not so much reportage as there is pandering to advertisers and consumers. We can see this from the amount of Titanfall coverage -- how many other games could have been brought into the spotlight, if we cut only a few superfluous articles about that game?

You gotta give the press what they want, and what they need, otherwise they just won't bother, by in large. As an industry, it serves to make money before it serves to bring new games into the spotlight, and that's something I think about almost every day. There should be a compromise somewhere, but I digress.

Games journalists in major magazines are very specific people. It is an industry where everyone knows everyone. There is, surprisingly, not a huge amount of variation. It is unlikely Mr CRPG fan will be best buddies with Mr FPS fan, and as an extension of that Mr CRPG won't fit the clique, and Mr CRPG might find himself without a job.

Where are the 'we are dying to bring you new games' games journalists? They are the guys on Twitter without a job, because they don't meet the personal standards of Mr Editor.

Aside from RockPaperShotgun I can't think of one single magazine in the UK that dedicates most of its time to actually researching and bringing new games to the limelight, rather than dishing out content from press releases delivered by the same people paying their bills. That's fine, it's an industry, it needs to make money. Maybe I am just a romantic.

Anyway, to end - Original Sin's unique selling points are inherently incompatible with the principles upon which the press, and the marketers, work with.

To make enough noise to sell a CRPG, you need to tell everyone WHAT'S WRONG with current RPGs, and WHY Original Sin will deliver them a more rewarding experience. This industry is rarely critical of itself, and because of that, money speaks louder than words. If you can't get your trailer on at the Super Bowl, and you're unwilling to throw a bit of shit around, then what voice is there? "My game is great, please try it!" Why? People need to know WHY CRPGs should come back. I could give 50 reasons right here, but not without rustling some feathers.

So to me it's relatively simple. The tl;dr is that the press resent the time and effort it takes to produce a proper preview of OS -- a story that is, to their editors, most likely a minor one. But it shouldn't be, because it's good, and it's fresh, and in its design it speaks volumes about modern design principles -- perhaps those principles should be on paper, though, as well as in the game.

Logistically: do not shove tutorials in the game itself left right and center, just get those features missed by press in videos and on paper, and give them tips on what to try, and how to do the trickier things. They are not the end consumer, it doesn't matter if they're not playing how you intended, they're just the messenger, and if they're good at their jobs they'll be able to translate how they played, assisted, into the potential for the end consumer.

The romantic in me says "if they can't be bothered to look at the game properly, then they represent a demographic wherein the nuance will be lost anyway." Can't please everyone.

That's 'wot I think'.

 

[Applypoison]

You gotta give the press what they want, and what they need, otherwise they just won't bother, by in large. As an industry, it serves to make money before it serves to bring new games into the spotlight, and that's something I think about almost every day. There should be a compromise somewhere, but I digress.

Someone give this man a couple thousand brofists, even if he aknowledges his views to be a bit romantic. For all the weird shit some indies can pull off, they have it right - the line needs to be drawn somewhere when it comes to the infernal shitcircle of mainstream publishers & press. I've had the opportunity to review offers that publishers have made to certain indies, and it's unreal how it reeks of shark loaning.

"Give us 33% of your profits and we'll try to, um, justify it by doing stuff you could easily be doing yourself by putting in a few extra hours a week and managing your budget. So, when you want to hire more people/expand your studio/upgrade your hardware, you're fucked and have to get us to approve since we hold the share of profits you would've used for that"

Monetizing creativity is all fine and good, right up until the point where creativity is diluted to shit in the name of Time & Money(tm).

 

[hivemind]

Don't worry Swen, no one got Dragon Commander as well, journalists or gamers, but if that didnt bring your studio down, i think at this point your pretty much immortal...

What was there to get? It was a mixture of shitty RTS elements and shallow "politics" gimmick, and on top of that the waifus were all horrible.

 

[Bubbles]

I think that was his point.

 

[Roguey]

This is a AAA CRPG, more akin to The Witcher 2 than even something as impressive as Pillars of Eternity. Larian put up a LOT of their own money on Original Sin--and its success, or failure, will therefore determine the future of Larian Studios.

It doesn't look like it lol

That is, it looks >$10 million but <$5 million, like Divinity 2.

 

[Rake]

This is a AAA CRPG, more akin to The Witcher 2 than even something as impressive as Pillars of Eternity. Larian put up a LOT of their own money on Original Sin--and its success, or failure, will therefore determine the future of Larian Studios.

It doesn't look like it lol

That is, it looks >$10 million but <$5 million, like Divinity 2.

How do you judge that?
Did Diablo 3 looked like AAA, that is 4 times+ more costs than Witcher 2?

Is it possible for an isometric game to "look" expensive?

 

[Tribal Sarah]

Larian should get YouTubers involved in a big way. The gaming "press" are fucking useless, if not blatantly corrupt. I think good coverage and word of mouth from YouTubers like TB would do more for the game than any shit IGN will come up with

You mean someone like Joe or Jesse?

I'd rather see Epicnamebro or Force Strategy Gaming and Rurikhan do vids, but, yeah why not. I'm not a fan of these "e-celebs." Especially the ones who whine and beg for money. Or those shills who constantly simper about how hard it is being e-famous, while demanding their viewers turn off Adblock. (boogie); but if they help the game get good word of mouth, then it's worth it in the end. I hated the thought of Pewdiepie doing Dark Souls, but before he did those videos, the community was dwindling fast. I often hung around for 15-20 minutes waiting for a summons. Now it's super popular and the community has exploded.

 

[Minttunator]

A few months ago in another thread someone quoted a very telling Youtube comment about D:OS - "its like Skyrim version of diablo".

Gaming "journalists" face the same problem that this current generation of gamers (personified by the above quote) does - they simply do not possess the vocabulary to describe what D:OS is like. This is because gaming "journalists" aren't experts in the field that they cover - in addition to being institutionally corrupt and not having learned about actual journalism. Most of them are just 20-something kids who can sometimes write relatively well.

They've never played Ultima 7, so they can only compare games like this to Diablo and Torchlight. The same exact shit happened to MMX when several gaming sites (and gamers) struggled to describe it - some compared it to Legend of Grimrock, most didn't even get that far. There's been such a dearth of proper RPGs in the past ~10 years or so that people have forgotten the complexities this genre can entail.

I hope Swen and other bros can reverse this trend eventually, but it's an uphill battle to be sure.

Fake edit: my 1000th post on the Codex complains about the decline. How very appropriate.

 

[dnf]

Aside from RockPaperShotgun I can't think of one single magazine in the UK that dedicates most of its time to actually researching and bringing new games to the limelight, rather than dishing out content from press releases delivered by the same people paying their bills. That's fine, it's an industry, it needs to make money. Maybe I am just a romantic.

That's a really retarded thing to say.

 

[Nugs]

Do you know why Divine Divinity, DKS and Dragon Commander never sold millon copies and is not as memorable as other games? Because they are average games at best, it's no rocket science. Larian is vastly overrated on Codex by some.

 

[Rake]

Do you know why Divine Divinity, DKS and Dragon Commander never sold millon copies and is not as memorable as other games? Because they are average games at best, it's no rocket science. Larian is vastly overrated on Codex by some.

The same reason Arcanum, ToEE and Bloodlines never sold millon copies? I quess they are average games at best, it's not rocket science. Troika is vastly overrated on Codex.

Spoiler

Dragon Commander is the only game i played from Larian, so i can't talk about the quality of their ither games. But your reasoning is idiotic nontheless. Sinse when "sell millions of copies= game must be good"

 

[Nugs]

Do you know why Divine Divinity, DKS and Dragon Commander never sold millon copies and is not as memorable as other games? Because they are average games at best, it's no rocket science. Larian is vastly overrated on Codex by some.

The same reason Arcanum, ToEE and Bloodlines never sold millon copies? I quess they are average games at best, it's not rocket science. Troika is vastly overrated on Codex.

Spoiler

Dragon Commander is the only game i played from Larian, so i can't talk about the quality of their ither games. But your reasoning is idiotic nontheless. Sinse when "sell millions of copies= game must be good"

Arcanum TOEE and Bloodlines sold more than DD or DKS at its time, and probably by today they still sell more.

Good games sell, bad games don't.

 

[Infinitron]

The Codex's Anti-Larian Squad is way lamer than the Anti-Inxile and Anti-Obsidian Squads. Alts, shitposters, and people with postcounts in the double digits.

 

[Rake]

Good games sell, bad games don't.

That's why Oblivion was such a failure, oh wait...

 

[Nugs]

We will see how DOS is, but can it dethrone Torment, Arcanum, TOEE, Ultima 6, Fallout 1, Project Eternity? Larian is not making anything ground breaking here, so it has to better at what it does than those titles if it is to succeed, being average does not work today as in 2001 when there were only few diablo or gothic clones as opposed to the number of games today.If it can though, power to Larian. In the end it's people who vote with their wallets.

There is a reason Torment and Fallout 1 still sell on GOG and are nr 1 and 2 in codex top rpg list.

 

[Gragt]

Good games sell, bad games don't.

That's why Oblivion was such a failure, oh wait...

Or Planescape: Torment such a commercial success.

 

[Rahdulan]

Good games sell, bad games don't.

Good guys also always win and you can tell the bad guys apart by their black horns and tilted fedoras.

 

[Nugs]

Good games sell, bad games don't.

That's why Oblivion was such a failure, oh wait...

Or Planescape: Torment such a commercial success.

by 2004 torment had 6 million copies sold

 

[Mangoose]

We will see how DOS is, but can it dethrone Torment, Arcanum, TOEE, Ultima 6, Fallout 1, Project Eternity?

(combat-)Gameplay-wise it already dethrones all of them besides TOEE because, well, it'll be like TOEE, turn based with a movement grid with a party. Rather than RTWP-shit or single-character-turn-based-shit.

 

[Nugs]

We will see how DOS is, but can it dethrone Torment, Arcanum, TOEE, Ultima 6, Fallout 1, Project Eternity?

Gameplay-wise it already dethrones all of them besides TOEE because, well, it'll be like TOEE, turn based with a movement grid with a party. Rather than RTWP-shit or single-character-turn-based-shit.

You just called nr 1 an 2 Codex best games as shit.

 

[Zeriel]

They are basically shit outside of CYOA. The CYOA just happens to be that good.

 

[Mangoose]

We will see how DOS is, but can it dethrone Torment, Arcanum, TOEE, Ultima 6, Fallout 1, Project Eternity?

Gameplay-wise it already dethrones all of them besides TOEE because, well, it'll be like TOEE, turn based with a movement grid with a party. Rather than RTWP-shit or single-character-turn-based-shit.

You just called nr 1 an 2 Codex best games as shit.

What's your point?