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Vapourware Sui Generis + Exanima Early Access

Merlkir

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
1,216
Attributes and skills are next on their ToDo, iirc. They want the skills to be more like perks, rather than just a value, they should immediately change the way you play and what your character can do. I haven't actually read up much on this, or the magic system.
 

Decado

Old time handsome face wrecker
Patron
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
2,544
Location
San Diego
Codex 2014
I wonder why, in a third person game, moving objects in the game world looks like you are doing it telepathically? Shouldn't the character be moving the chair, door, etc, instead of the mouse pointer? I know it is expensive to have a corresponding animation for each movement, but it looks really weird to have an interactive/reactive combat system where your dude moves the way you command, but when comes time to move a chair it just floats around.
 

tindrli

Arcane
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
4,465
Location
Dragodol
well thats really a refreshment.. and they did very good job on movement physics im impressed
 

Renevent

Cipher
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
925
Haven't really been following this game all that much. But does anyone else get the feeling that these models look like they're puppets on a string?

I mean it seems they don't have their own center of gravity. If one of them is going forward, gets slashed in the neck, they then fall to the side. Wtf? Hope they fix that, cuz it's a weird ass effect.

Anyhow, looks like an interesting action combat system. Definitely keep an eye on it for now.

I like the fact they are trying something fairly new and distinct...but can't help feel the same way. Combat looks like they are puppets slowly flailing around in a pool of molasses. It just doesn't look good...
 

Kron

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
642
Location
The dark throne in Algalord
What really bothers me about this project is that asides from the physics and stuff, which looks fun, the game doesn't seem to have a clear creative vision.
As in a clear cut art direction or something like that. Everything aside from the engine and fighting looks so tired and boring.
The music is generic crap. The hud, which I guess is preliminary, is the typical minimalist borefest. The passages of the dungeons look empty and clean. As in, there's this feeling that the game has no life, no spark to it.
Probably too soon to make this assumptions, but I still think that they should really think about the setting and creative/artistic side of the game more.

I'd really like to see this game thrive.
 

Merlkir

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
1,216
I think they do have a vision for the world, but they focused so much on technology that they have very few assets made. (only recently). And those have been whipped up rather quickly, because they were slipping behind schedule. I agree a more unique art style would help a lot.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,886
In those videos people move clumsy like zombies most of the time. Combat looks like something out of Marx brothers movies or something.
 

set

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
940
1) Still same shit, people in a dungeon swinging stupidly
2) No mention of RPG mechanics

I mean, the code they've shown is super neato and stuff but I don't see a game there. I'm even less inclined to try and play that wonky combat. It's cool what they're doing and I approve but it's still alphaware in my eyes. Lots of money needs ot be invested to make this a viable engine to then make a game w/.
 

Merlkir

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
1,216
A longer video of actual gameplay:



1) Still same shit, people in a dungeon swinging stupidly
2) No mention of RPG mechanics

I mean, the code they've shown is super neato and stuff but I don't see a game there. I'm even less inclined to try and play that wonky combat. It's cool what they're doing and I approve but it's still alphaware in my eyes. Lots of money needs ot be invested to make this a viable engine to then make a game w/.

You don't have to swing stupidly, you can swing with a purpose. The combat system allows for some fine fighting.
They mentioned RPG mechanics in past updates and on the backer forums.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1473965863/sui-generis/posts

This update is about the beta launch of Exanima but first we think we should address the elephant in the room. Why the lack of updates? What's happening with the game's development?

Let's be honest here, when we came to Kickstarter we didn't know what we were getting into, not so much in terms of development but everything else. We were excited about making the game and naive about many realities. We saw ourselves as indie devs promising to do a lot of cool new things that people would share our enthusiasm for. Our plan was to focus on the game's most unique qualities, release it and then continue work on it indefinitely after release, improving and expanding it. What we soon realised is that most people were not so willing to forgive a few flaws for the sake of the game's virtues. We would be subject to harsh criticism on all fronts and where we showed ability and quality these would only serve to make them expected everywhere. Sui Generis does not present itself as a humble game and expectations were sky high.

Our focus almost immediately shifted from just developing the game to improving everything and responding to criticism so that people would not prematurely dismiss the game. It is a very unconventional game, one that can't be described with what are usually the biggest selling points. It's unfamiliar and people don't know if they want it, they will more easily compare it to what they know and fixate it on flaws rather than understand its unique potential. This was further reinforced by our first alpha releases, our alpha backers were in large part people who believed in and understood the game but a lot of people who knew less about what they were getting into and what the game aimed to achieve were, at least initially, not as impressed.

Does this mean we've bowed to criticism and let it change our game? No. We've listened to what meant improving on what we already had, whether it was making animations more fluid and lifelike, controls more responsive, armour designs more realistic or whatever reflected our own desires for the game. It seems there's endless room for improvement and as something approaches perfection any flaws only become more apparent. For a small team with limited resources working on such an already ambitious project this has proved to be a gargantuan challenge and incredibly time consuming. Doing things well just takes a lot of time and some of Sui Generis' more ambitious and experimental features are incredibly difficult to do "well".

http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28083

Sui Generis does not present itself as a humble game and expectations were sky high.
Expectations were high because in their Kickstarter they announced this:
  • Believable fiction. Carefully crafted and researched so it feels authentic down to the smallest detail, the world of Sui Generis will draw you in and captivate you with its depth and complexity.
  • Non Linear Story. Write your own story. Create your own character and then interact with the world and events as you see fit. Who knows what might happen? It's not written, it's up to you.
  • Reactive characters. Characters and creatures do not have fixed roles. They will react to anything you say or do, how you dress and what tone you set. We're putting the word Character in NPC.
  • Physics driven combat. Whether swinging your weapon, shooting an arrow or manipulating the world with your mind, you can expect spectacular and always unique results.
  • Interactive environment. Nothing is bolted down or fake, the environment is fully interactive and can play an important tactical role, as well as just provide lots of fun.
  • Deep character customisation. Don't just choose a class but create your own unique build and develop your own play style. The paths to success are almost limitless.
    Meaningful Items. Plentiful items, all with plausible qualities and values. Even a rusty sword is effective in the right hands and powerful items will be special and well guarded.
You can't announce features like this and then wonder about high expectations. So that's Bare Mettle's fault.

My fault as a backer was to believe that a game with features like this could be created by that small budget. In hindsight problems were inevitable.
 

Merlkir

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
1,216
Yeah, I don't see SG being made with those features anytime soon. The sad thing is, they have good stuff, Exanima is fun and I could easily see the arena being a cool multiplayer game. I hope it takes off on Steam so they don't run out of funding entirely.
 

mindx2

Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter
Patron
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
4,389
Location
Perusing his PC Museum shelves.
Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
A longer video of actual gameplay:



1) Still same shit, people in a dungeon swinging stupidly
2) No mention of RPG mechanics

I mean, the code they've shown is super neato and stuff but I don't see a game there. I'm even less inclined to try and play that wonky combat. It's cool what they're doing and I approve but it's still alphaware in my eyes. Lots of money needs ot be invested to make this a viable engine to then make a game w/.

You don't have to swing stupidly, you can swing with a purpose. The combat system allows for some fine fighting.
They mentioned RPG mechanics in past updates and on the backer forums.




For some reason the camera angle really bothers me on this one.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Yeah, I don't see SG being made with those features anytime soon. The sad thing is, they have good stuff, Exanima is fun and I could easily see the arena being a cool multiplayer game. I hope it takes off on Steam so they don't run out of funding entirely.
They should have just gone for a Diablo style hack and slash with their unique interesting hacking and slashing. Would have been much easier to make and they could have built off of it to make the full RPG they wanted to.
 

Copper

Savant
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
469
Yup, it would be more satisfying as well with many enemies that take one-two good hits to down, then bigger armoured hitters, etc - YouTuber gold with lots of environmental interaction like the guy fighting with a chair around his neck.
 

Merlkir

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
1,216
Modding seems unlikely, at least importing new assets and creating new content. But Madoc did say it might be possible to make levels with existing assets. (which are highly customizable) They do have an unfortunate attachement to their vision and seem reluctant about any player creativity happening around their "baby".
If they happen to release some tools in the future, doing a more Diabloesque game should be possible.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Yeah, I don't see SG being made with those features anytime soon. The sad thing is, they have good stuff, Exanima is fun and I could easily see the arena being a cool multiplayer game. I hope it takes off on Steam so they don't run out of funding entirely.
They should have just gone for a Diablo style hack and slash with their unique interesting hacking and slashing. Would have been much easier to make and they could have built off of it to make the full RPG they wanted to.
They wouldn't have gotten $200k if they did. They sold the dream and many people were excited about procedurally-generated deep quests creating non-linear experience and everything else that was promised.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
They wouldn't have gotten $200k if they did. They sold the dream and many people were excited about procedurally-generated deep quests creating non-linear experience and everything else that was promised.
Maybe, it seems like a lot of people just though "wow that's cool combat" or were generally impressed by the technology they created (and Diablo 2 featured procedurally generated levels, so they could have kept that aspect).

I know I didn't contribute because they seemed like they were in over their heads and were promising way too much.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
I didn't contribute because I didn't care about their physics-driven combat and the rest (what I did care about) was nothing but unsubstantiated promises.
 

Merlkir

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
1,216
From updates in the backer forum, they have worked on the non-Exanima stuff as well, ie quests, general AI etc. It's just not yet ready for playtesting, or in early development overall. And of course now they're focusing on Exanima, so they have that going on Steam.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I didn't contribute because I didn't care about their physics-driven combat and the rest (what I did care about) was nothing but unsubstantiated promises.
Right, so you wouldn't have regardless.

However, if their pitch was "we're gonna make the very best physics based combat game ever, and focus on that", I think there is a good chance they would have done about as well as they did.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
I disagree. I was presented as a revolutionary game (in all aspects). Open world, dynamic story, non-linearity, "vast and rich history spanning aeons and galaxies", world with a life of its own, where everything is connected, exists for a reason, and has a huge degree of reactivity. It was presented not as a combat game but a game about exploration and getting involved in major events that take place even if you won't get involved.

For most players, it's a dream game where combat is just one of many aspects, which is why the KS did so well. If I could buy what Madoc was selling, I would be his biggest fan because that's the game I want to play.
 

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
A lot of people didn't back them precisely because their pitch was too ambitious - they thought it was potential vaporware or even outright fraud.
 

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