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Subterranea - 3D, Turn-based, Fantasy CRPG

JMab

Augur
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
177
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Hi all,

This is embarrassing, but I hadn't bothered to Google the name of Sanctuary for an RPG - turns out there is an ASCII roguelike that has been in development since 2012 called SanctuaryRPG! http://www.sanctuaryrpg.com/

Anyways, I've renamed Sanctuary to Subterranea. And released the first pre-alpha mini gameplay footage, "Looting gone wrong!".

Any feedback welcome.

 

Piety

Shitpostin'
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
1,777
Location
Chicago
Codex 2012 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Torment: Tides of Numenera
It's cool to see an example of some of the physics-based mechanics you were talking about in the other thread. It strikes me that it could be a challenge to balance the results of physics-based outcomes of character actions... One of the core elements of an RPG is the abstraction of character actions and their outcomes according to a fixed (and predictable) set of rules. So if Trogdor throws a rock at a goblin, it either hits the goblin or it doesn't based on Trogdor's "Throw Rocks" skill modulated by a die roll. Ditto for the damage don't to the goblin if it gets hit. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the impact that this physics-stuff might have on this basic set-up, and the game-balance implications. It'd certainly add a new layer of unpredictability to certain gameplay elements beyond the usual rng() kind.
 

JMab

Augur
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
177
Location
Melbourne, Australia
It's cool to see an example of some of the physics-based mechanics you were talking about in the other thread. It strikes me that it could be a challenge to balance the results of physics-based outcomes of character actions... One of the core elements of an RPG is the abstraction of character actions and their outcomes according to a fixed (and predictable) set of rules. So if Trogdor throws a rock at a goblin, it either hits the goblin or it doesn't based on Trogdor's "Throw Rocks" skill modulated by a die roll. Ditto for the damage don't to the goblin if it gets hit. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the impact that this physics-stuff might have on this basic set-up, and the game-balance implications. It'd certainly add a new layer of unpredictability to certain gameplay elements beyond the usual rng() kind.

Yes, the unpredictably introduced by the physics engine will be limited. This is going to be a tactical RPG above all else - I'm generally looking to avoid the need for any "twitch" skills. So in your example, a chance to hit with a thrown weapon, will be rules-based, and the damage for a successfull hit will be rules-based. In the turn-based combat, you will give your characters actions to a) (optionally) pick up the rock, b) throw the rock at the goblin. The rules engine will calculate the rest, no need for your own physical targeting skills to come into play, beyond selecting the enemy you are attacking.

The main way that the physics will affect the gameplay is to introduce unpredictability in a semi-controlled situation. So to expand on the above example, if instead a Sorcerer cast levitate on a large pile or rocks and dropped them over the heads of a party of monsters, so physics engine could calculate the trajectory of the rocks to determine whether they might hit the monsters, however the rules engine will still allow reflex saving throws against the attacks by the monsters (with animated tumbles of course!) and still calculate the damage for successful hits itself.

As a poster in the other thread said, I'm looking to create some emergent gameplay, but not at the overall expense of the superior tactical player will generally get the superior results, on average. Hope that explains it...
 

JMab

Augur
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
177
Location
Melbourne, Australia
that video is darn cool

Thanks a lot! As a one man band (currently - I've had some offers of help), these type of posts really keep me motivated to keep producing the game as quickly and to as high a quality as possible. I'm hoping to build something that hasn't quite existed before (no point trying to reproduce commercial titles exactly as an indie right?), and the type of game that I'd like to play of course. Graphical quality is undoubtedly important, but the game has got to have great tactical depth with many options to be interesting, and my "twist" is the unpredictability of the physics stuff, in some situations.

CRPGs have obviously always been very combat-focused, which everyone enjoys of course, but I'd like to have Subterranea offer as much fun in simple "adventuring", i.e. negotiating chasms and pits, weird, dangerous environments - environmental puzzles I guess you could say. I want the players to think it's just as important to pack a rope as it is a sword.
 

Alchemist

Arcane
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Messages
1,439
I like where this is going - nice footage of some rules implementation, with the reflex saves and all.

CRPGs have obviously always been very combat-focused, which everyone enjoys of course, but I'd like to have Subterranea offer as much fun in simple "adventuring", i.e. negotiating chasms and pits, weird, dangerous environments - environmental puzzles I guess you could say. I want the players to think it's just as important to pack a rope as it is a sword.
Right on... I love games where the environment is just as much an adversary as the monsters.
 

JMab

Augur
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
177
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Cautiously fapping, make it small or it will be vapourwares

I hear you. This is my story:

In this world there is a swamp. It is known as Vengarth Swamp, though there is no one that lives nearby that remembers why. The fetid expanse of Vengarth Swamp cover many miles – hapless strangers who wander into it’s depths are rarely seen again.

Many decades ago, a fishing village called Gimlet grew on the side of the swamp like a small barnacle. The villagers of Gimlet scraped out a living, catching and selling the odd looking fish they hauled in from the swamp with their homemade nets.

This barely tolerable life would have continued to this day, had an Elf clad all in black robes not appeared in their midst one hot and humid evening. The Elf introduced himself as Lord Lenzo. He told the villagers that their lives could be improved immeasurably if they worked with him. For within the swamp grew a number of extremely rare plants that could be turned into valuable magical and alchemical reagents. If they would harvest these plants, Lord Lenzo would show them how to refine and sell them, which would bring great prosperity to Gimlet.

The villagers of Gimlet readily agreed, and the heads of the strongest families formed a cabal with Lord Lenzo to manage production. The rest of the villagers were paid good silver to perform the dangerous harvesting work.

Gimlet Village quickly grew into Gimlet Town, walled for defense, to protect their wealth. The members of the cabal were the merchant-lords of the town, but every townperson prospered. Lord Lenzo was rarely seen, but his presence was noted in the town from time to time.

Recently, a threat to Gimlet’s prosperity has emerged. Two survivors of a six-strong harvesting party returned from the swamp with a fevered table of a temple entrance found sunken near the centre of the swamp. The most brave (or foolhardy) of the harvesters broke through the entrance. When their screams rang out across the swamp from within the dark interior, the survivors fled for their lives, never once looking back.

Although other harvesting parties have been instructed to give Vengarth Temple a wide berth, they have still been disappearing with increasing regularity. When the profits of the cabal are threatened, they act. A call has gone out to willing adventuring parties to find and clear the threat in the temple. The cabal will support these endeavours in exchange for getting the first right to purchase any treasures retrieved. To ensure this, parties have been told that they will be restricted to the town or swamp while under contract.

Your party has answered the call and are gathered in the entry room of Gimlet Hall. You and the other adventuring parties eye each other nervously – will you help or hinder each other? A staff strikes the marble floor, the two massive doors swing open and a guard summons you to be addressed by the cabal…

So that really defines the content - one town, one swamp, and one megadungeon. I think that's a reasonable amount of content for an indie doing most of it himself. The sale price will reflect the eventual amount of content. Gameplay system development will mostly occupy my time for this release - if it's good, I hope people will like it and a future release will have greatly-expanded content.
 

JMab

Augur
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
177
Location
Melbourne, Australia
I like where this is going - nice footage of some rules implementation, with the reflex saves and all.

CRPGs have obviously always been very combat-focused, which everyone enjoys of course, but I'd like to have Subterranea offer as much fun in simple "adventuring", i.e. negotiating chasms and pits, weird, dangerous environments - environmental puzzles I guess you could say. I want the players to think it's just as important to pack a rope as it is a sword.
Right on... I love games where the environment is just as much an adversary as the monsters.

Yes, it will be a rules-based game, like all good RPGs.

I'm open for ideas about environment puzzles by the way, either here or via PM!
 

Dorateen

Arcane
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
4,332
Location
The Crystal Mist Mountains
That's some nice customization you've got there. And rolling for stats, let the fun begin!

I eagerly look forward to more gameplay examples, including a combat scenario. It's been a long time between full party D&D adventuring. This appears it will fill that void.
 

Alchemist

Arcane
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Messages
1,439
Very nice indeed! This uses the NGUI framework right? I'm considering using that for my game. It looks like you can get very professional results with it.

I have one suggestion and it's only a minor UI issue. When tweaking the avatar's body parameters it would be nice to have a taller / larger window to view it in. The small view works fine for the facial features, but maybe an expanded window could appear when viewing the full body.

Anyway, I really like the direction this is going in! All those OGL stats, 6-character party... :incline:
 

JMab

Augur
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
177
Location
Melbourne, Australia
That's some nice customization you've got there. And rolling for stats, let the fun begin!

I eagerly look forward to more gameplay examples, including a combat scenario. It's been a long time between full party D&D adventuring. This appears it will fill that void.

Thanks, next video will be a combat scenario. I was getting ready to create it when I started to tweak the class starting packages (armor, weapons and some extras like thieves tools and bardic instruments), during character creation when I realized that I should do a video of an end-to-end character creation first. Expect the first combat scenario video by Monday night...
 

JMab

Augur
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
177
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Very nice indeed! This uses the NGUI framework right? I'm considering using that for my game. It looks like you can get very professional results with it.

I have one suggestion and it's only a minor UI issue. When tweaking the avatar's body parameters it would be nice to have a taller / larger window to view it in. The small view works fine for the facial features, but maybe an expanded window could appear when viewing the full body.

Anyway, I really like the direction this is going in! All those OGL stats, 6-character party... :incline:

Yes, I'm using NGUI. When I started it was overwhelmingly the most popular Unity GUI framework, though since then Daikon Forge has made a lot of ground, possibly due to it being simpler to use. However, the creator of NGUI has spent a lot of time recently working for Unity themselves on their new native GUI framework (as yet unreleased), so I think I made the right choice for a future upgrade path. As for NGUI itself, it certainly can give professional results, though like any GUI framework, it takes a lot of learning to bend it to your will! You're never going to agree with all of a framework designer's design choices, however I'd say that there is already a huge amount of answered questions online about NGUI, the owner of the framework is very responsive in the support forums (he's fixed a couple of bugs that I've found almost immediately), and he's still constantly updating NGUI.

Good point about the body view, it really is too small. Perhaps I could do a visualization panel that grows during character customization, when tweaking the body and head sliders. When in-game, players probably won't use the body and head views much, and just stick on the equipped view, as you'll be able to see you're fully equipped character in full screen 3D at all times anyway. But it's a good point during character customization. Perhaps I could get the visualization panel to grow down to temporarily cover the stats panel, that should give a better full-body view.

Also, there are a lot more slider options that I could have put in, like tweaking nose, chin and arm length, etc, but thought this would be over the top. Happy to hear thoughts otherwise though, on whether there are enough customization sliders...
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2013
Messages
1,258
Hi all,

This is embarrassing, but I hadn't bothered to Google the name of Sanctuary for an RPG - turns out there is an ASCII roguelike that has been in development since 2012 called SanctuaryRPG! http://www.sanctuaryrpg.com/

Anyways, I've renamed Sanctuary to Subterranea.

And thank heavens for that! Subterranea sounds far better and catchier.
 

JMab

Augur
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
177
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Bros,

I have a new pre-alpha gameplay video featuring turn-based combat:



And a blog post explaining it here:

http://cloudninegames.net/new-gameplay-footage-turn-based-combat/

(text copied below for your convenience)

This pre-alpha gameplay video of Subterranea is the first to show the main gameplay mode – turn-based combat.

The in-game user interface is minimalist. The bottom-right of the screen contains the player control panel. The buttons on the control panel top row from left-to-right are; End Turn, Formation, Logbook, Dialog History and Rolls History. The bottom row are; Select All, Rest, Map, Day/Time and Options.

Most of the UI windows are resizable and the game remembers the UI windows changes you make, so you can customize the UI to your liking and it will stay that way.

The camera system currently works like this: if 1 or more PCs are selected, it will focus on the frontmost PC in the current party formation. If no PCs are currently selected, it will focus on the leader of the party. The camera can be zoomed in and out with the mouse scroll wheel, and orbited around the target PC while holding down the middle mouse button. The orbit perspective will be retained while the PCs are in the midst of moving, however once you issue a new move order, the camera will revert to following the lead PC. I hope this camera system gives a good mix of obvious functionality together with the ability to peer into every corner of the dungeons.

What aren’t you seeing now, that will be in the final version? I’m still working on the projected 3D arrow which will show you how far you can move while still taking a standard action that round and how far you can move without taking a standard action (i.e. double-move). The PC portraits are missing HP indicators, the PC/NPC whose turn it is in turn-based mode is not yet highlighted, there are no context-sensitive cursors yet (i.e. sword cursor when the default action is a melee attack) and so on. These features are missing simply because the game is in a pre-alpha state, however rest assured that I am working on getting all of these in!

Also, forgive the fighting animations, I whipped these up as stand-in animations very quickly.

I hope you enjoy the video!
 

hexer

Guest
Haha, did he cut the rope bridge in the end?

I think a fixed, non-transparent GUI would be better for your game. I never found transparent GUIs aesthetically appropriate for fantasy games.
 

Dorateen

Arcane
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
4,332
Location
The Crystal Mist Mountains
I watched the video twice. Looks like Destroy Object will be a useful ability. Agree with the preference for a fixed GUI, but I guess screen customization helps attract more players.

I have to laugh at all the Simon and Garfunkle related videos Youtube puts up there at the end, because of Trouble at the Bridge!
 

JMab

Augur
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
177
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Yes, the Cleric destroyed one of the bridge supports at the end. I didn't time the animation well - it is an overhead swing with the heavy mace, but the animation event fires too early.

On the Destroy Object ability, yes, I'm trying to think of a number of useful gameplay applications for it. The other context-sensitive actions I've got currently are Jump, Tumble and Feign Death. I think creating a lot of these type of actions will add a lot of scope to the gameplay.

OK, noted about the UI feedback. I was going for minimal to maximise the screen view, thus theoretically increasing immersion, but I can see how a transparent UI may not fit into a fantasy RPG aesthetic. I'll create non-transparent versions of all of the in-game icons (maybe with stone backgrounds, naturally!), and make that the default UI skin, allowing players to select the transparent skin if they prefer...
 

JMab

Augur
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
177
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Hi all,

I've just uploaded a video showing a lot of the arcane magic in action in the game:



Also snuck in an in-game radial/pie menu upgrade for fast/slick issuing of orders to characters...

As always, any feedback appreciated.
 

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