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SkiNNyBane

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Well thats awkward lmao xD
 

SkiNNyBane

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
SF5 "NAME" = JulioSotomayor

sTEAM Friend Name = JulioSotomayor

please, everyone be sure to ADD ME!!!

gonna spend like 2 days now playing AE

I added you bruv but it says all you play is dota 2 so not sure if its you. I am just going to assume you play sf on ps4.
 
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DakaSha V

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For the record im in hawaii. I can only play with people from mexico, and maybe about as far as Colorado, roughly
 
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DakaSha V

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Where are you located? Also GgXrdRev2 is a great game (i see its in your games)
 
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aweigh

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i don't like MOBAs. Why?

they're inferior to Fighting Games and are the consolation prize for INCEL autist-pro-gamers who have a lot of natural talent... but they just don't have enough to cut it in the FGC and actually compete with the world's best gamers, i.e. THE FIGHTING GAMES.

heh, ok, all done now. I was trying to make it humorous man, but Also wanted to make it clear I LOOOOOVE befriending people rnadomly online and adding them to my SF 5 friend app as soon as they even mention that they play.

I enjoy teaching them basics and pseudo-fundamentals if they're 100% new to FGs, and I enjoy as well the thrill of competing. Idislike "grinding" online fighting and winning (and losing... oh, and losing...) against faceless demons that I will never fully grasp as they exist solely in my imagination for those periods.

Since I can't really ( or rather, choose not to because of much inconvencie) go to play Local matches (i.e. offline) of FGs or SF 4 or SF 5 here where I live, online is where I hammered out my cultural identity. Oh, yeah, that is typed with absolutely zero irony.

So my next-best love/fun in "life" is playing online people that I've actually met in forums, or via the SF games (whichever one) built-in community services. I will fight someone...

...that person will whoop my ass badly, and I will sit there and go: this dude is INSANELY TALENTED, and he completely raped the soul out of me with those constant frame traps and the neutral game (etc...), so I will actually:

- go through almost every single player I played with during that day's online session and simply just send each and every single one a friend request AND a steam request.

- I never, literally never use Steam Friends stuff to socialize, not even w/ Codex: for me it has only one use: to befriend SF players who have beaten me, or SF players who lost to me but I can easily see I could give them some basic tips/lessons on improving.

Why? Well obviously I'm a complete fucking sociopath, but that's beside the point:

...It is because I would much rather spend 6 hours playing a first-to-50 versus a really good Bison or Birdie player who is better than me (but not enough for the matches to be delusional, obviously I seek out those I know i can learn from their play and eventually beat)-- than reaching some super high Online Rank title.

My sf 5 title is Bronze, but I guarantee you man, oh my god do I guarantee you that the only reazon that is is because when I play SF 4, or SF 5, it is to play in 6-12 hour long sessions with a group of 6-8 (sometimes less) bona-fide INTERNET FRIENDS, not just that, but even more autistically: EXPLICITLY Street Fighter friends.

i try to seek out the little one can get of a community experience from fighting games without having access to local face-to-ace playing, and if i don't find it I literally will STALK players who run across me and send Friend Reqs in order to EXPLICITELY tell them, IMMEDIATELY:

"Hey, this is that Ryu you fought earlier (etc etc), dude you did some tech shit there i was like oh man, as Sabin wud say what a blow opp!"

(humor to break the ice, as well as letting him know I know about FGC celebrities such as TS Sabin)

If they say fuck off, on to the next one, if they say cool man i'll accept, and then obviously i say:

" hey man I'm literally ALWAYS on this playing, lemme know when you wanna play a session of Battle Lounge sets bro" (for those who don't know those matches are not RANKED officially for online points).

I hjave thousands and thousands of B. Lounge experience and in the constraint of my extreme chemical imbalances I actually managed to make 2 or 3 Street Fighter Online Friends Whom I Stalked After They Displayed Great Skill that I know actually chat with instead of playing SF.

If you go to my Youtube channel I have a LOT of SF 4 matches versus someone named Negative_Edge; NE is a canadian spectrum-warrior who lives alone, is overweight (who am i to judge, but it's part of the characterization), sells weed for a living: and he is easily the best online player I've ever seen. I wouldn't venture to say he can win an EVO, but without any hyperbole he would make Top 16 for sure.

Anyway he was my first SF 4 "friend", and he actually took the role of teacher for me and taught me what footsies were, what the neutral game was, what frame-traps were, what whiff-punishing was, etc.

He still plays SF V but obviously SF 5 is too simple for him: he's now on the TEKKEN train. I don't blame him, the only thing SF 4 kept having interesting for him was discovering insane stuff / bullshit, like unblockables, or spending 1 week to learn some SF 4 combo that had 7 1-frame links and then doing it on me, heh, flawlessly, and online.

Anyway since I wrote all this shit I'm'a just go ahead and e-mail it to some sort of magazine, maybe get published, it'll be good news for my parents since it would be immediately after shooting myself for writing so honestly about this pathetic online existence of mine.

whatever.

Point is: i'm always up for a game! We can learn from each other! Honestly I hope you're like, super good and body me cos that takes the pressure of me having to play amazing, your amazingness would eclispse my lack of it.

I hadn't played SF V since August, which is a WHILE, but been playing Arcade Edition today ALLLL day andgonna keep on playing till i drop asleep and guess what? man I am having a lot of fun!

Ryu got some nice stuff, not too nice obv, since he can't be actually good you know: capcom needs to keep ryu low-tier :)

...because Ryu players get off on the masochistic "honor" won from beating a top-tier character using Ryu. :D :D :D

When we do this (including myself), we ARE LITERALLY BETTER HUMAN BEINGS AND PEOPLE THAN THE OTHER GUY, LITERALLY, because we won using a char like Ryu that has zero gimmicks, no tricks, has to play honest and does shit damage to boot and has no reach, so... obviously... it means we are better people than the other guy, we are smarter, and we demonstrated that our Ryu win proves that we are 2, heck, FOUR yomi levels of cerebal juice ahead of them, those poor simpletons, mashing Laura's st. MK.

The thing I actually MOST LIKED was SF 4's "ONLINE TRAINING" mode, cos I would go into the online training room with my internet SF-friends and we would practice tech and shit with each other for hours instead of just fighting. I think that is single-handedly the most important thing missing from SF 5...

if SF 5 had online training I would lose my shit cos I love teaching people tech I discover, and I love learning new tech. I hate the people who think character tech should be kept on the down-low: no, I like to immediately tell EVERYONE about whatever kooky detail/situation/move property I stumbled across.

/the end
 
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aweigh

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DakaSha V

Okey doke, this is actually really really simple to clear up: I'm gonna post my most proudest match I've ever had, the one when my online sensei Negative_Edge wanted to see if I had actually learned anything whatsoever about everything he'd been showing and explaing concerning spacing, footsies, frame data, the differences (and how beautiful they are) between a Counter-Hit setup into a confirm versus whiff-punishing as an aggressively defensive tool meant to punish the opponent for making decisions.

Watch the video, obv. keeping in mind this was when I literally just had learned about the neutral game and about footsies for real, and if you think this video is pure shit, and that I am an unbelievably pathetic person for being so invested in something that, according to you (and since you will have watched the video, you actually WILL be a completely legitimate person to criticize both the match, my play, and character and validity as a human being), that will be YOUR RIGHT.

if you enjoy it, but dislike me too much to bother much about replying, please don't. I do not care if you enjoy it! I only wish to either cement in your psyche that I am a delusional moron or that I actually, earnestly simply enjoy fighting games that much.

(Obv. there is a sob-story behind my obsession with Street Fighter as it coincided with my divorce and during my first 2 years of no-drug-use after years of addiction, so the experience of both finding the BEST SHIT EVER, i.e. Fighting Games, but also that there was such a fun community around them...):



I have many more technically proficient mtches, but this is the one I would want shown at my funeral. Why? not because Negative_Edge, or me for that matter, play "amazingly", but because this match is simply a a sensei beginning to see his online student grasping for the first time "footsies". He showed me FGC_JuiceBox's video about footsies and the psychology behind "footsies" or "neutral", and it was life-changing.

Never befear had someone so eloquetly completely exposed the true core of ALL fighting games as JuiceBox in a 40 min YT video explaining that, (to quote Juicebox):

"Daigo is not magic! Daigo... is NOT... GODLIKE! Oh, Bison's standing MK, his standing HK, oh, I can't do anything! He just wins spamming that move! JUICEBOX! HOW DO I GET AS GOOD AS DAIGO!?"

And Juicebox calmly explains: when you see a player like Daigo whiff-punish something like Bison's (SF 4) st. MK or st. HK he is not REACTING, he is NOT... reacting. It is:

- A combination of a prepared REACTION to an EXPECTED occurance, (Juicebox says) it is the magical negative-zone where IT IS BOTH A GUESS and IT IS ALSO A REACTION but it is only possible BECAUSE HE KNOWS:

a) What ranges a Bison player would use that kick
b) WHY, the actual literaly WHY Bison would use that kick (i.e. he goes into a segment explaining player who don't understand that everything they do is RANDOM, regardless of their skill level
c) and to finish up this tl;dr: that Daigo whiff punishing that kick then canceling into some bullshit FADC/Ultra/etc combo thing was not him magically reacting in the space of 5-9 frames and doing all of the inputs perfectly; it is an example of a player (Daigo) knowing to the letter every single option avaiable to that Bison, and knowing that when that Bison throws out a punch or a kick, any limb, if he did it at "that distance" or if he does it at "thaaat distance", that Daigo, being a pro, knows that at those distances and that those choices for normals (be they to fake out or not) can lead to a specific amount of strategemens the Bison player can employ, and thus Daigo is busy strategizing:


1) he is not thinknig about the coming whiff-punish, that is nothing and (Juicebox) tells us that anyone who thinks that just knowing spacing is enough to be "good", it is not; that you need to to know WHAT you're going to do in liu--

Actually, you know what this is all way too TL;DR.

Here's some matches:




And here is a BONUS MATCH of me winning versus some online Yun (SF 4) using nothing but fundamentals:
 
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DakaSha V

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Is there anybody here around gold rank that plays on west coast/mexico?
 
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aweigh

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DakaSha II DakaSha V SkiNNyBane Great Deceiver

my god, I just realized that the post that made me go off my meds (literally) about training wasn't even directed at me. I'd like to defend myself by saying I typed all of that in my 2nd day without any sleep in one of my bouts of hypomania, but that excuse can only go so far.

In other news, though, even with the new AE update I still find SF V to be a pale, slow and simplified FG in comparison to SF IV...

JulioSotomayor both as my SF V 'CFN Account' and additionally as my 'Steam Friends' username. Feel free to add me. I hope Capcom patches in Online Training Mode, like the one from SF IV, as that is truthfully the best way to share a great FG experience with online-friends while teaching each other new tech.

EDIT:

For those interested in Ryu in SF V, he can now (with VT-1):

st.LP xx st.LP xx st.LK xx EX-Fireball xx VT-1 -> Fwd. Dash -> (ANY) Shoryuken

If near the corner you can do TWO EX-Fireballs and finish with 1 Shoryuken for a 3rd Juggle, or you can do...

b.HK xx st.LK xx VT-1 xx st.HP xx EX-Donkey Kick xx (Regular) SRK xx EX-SRK (This combo is corner only)

I'm having tons of fun right now discovering all of the new juggle properties Ryu can now play with in AE. He's still a solid low-tier char, but personally I think he's low-mid tier.

What keeps SF V AE Ryu in the lower tiers is still the same thing as always: He needs to speend too many resources to deal comparable amounts of DMG that most other characters can deal without spending as many bars or having to pop VT.

The 2nd big hole in SF V AE Ryu is also the same one as always: His most damaging combos, besides the fact that they require tons of EX-bars or V-Trigger, is that they are almost always situational, i.e. a lot of shit of Ryu's will whiff or simply not work if the opponent doesn't set everything up for Ryu.

His new Donkey Kick is a huge addition and it's not because of it can wall-bounce, IT IS BECAUSE IT HITS CROUCHING OPPONENTS AND THAT MEANS YOU NO LONGER HAVE TO FINISH WITH A FIREBALL WHEN COMBO'ing A CROUCHER.
 
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aweigh

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I'd love for everyone else in this thread to come post "tech" like the above that they're discovering with their characters in AE! Let's make this thread one where we can come and share our new findings.

:)
 
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DakaSha V

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Or we can just look online for optimized shit by people who actually understand the game.
 
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aweigh

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anyone can do that man :)

copying tech will never allow you to grow as a player, my friend. you need to spend time in training mode, and also spend time sparring with a partner.

all that tech you see "optimized" on youtube videos? there's a thing called meta-knowledge, and it's not included, my friend. I wish you good luck! :)

DakaSha V
 
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aweigh

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you need to educate yourself about just-frame blocking, and you need to download a PDF with images for each character's hitbox and hurtbox on each of their normals and moves.

that's the first step to learning a Street Fighter game.

after that, you need to spend time practising your spacing, and what i mean by that is:

you need to memorize exactly where you need to keep yourself standing, (though not literally standing still), so that you can move into your opponent's threat-range (this is unique to every character) and begin the neutral game, i.e. the mind-game where you want to Whiff-Punish your opponent because he thought you were walking too far and he pressed a button

and then you stopped short of that button's reach, or simply were already walking backwards (this is what looks like 'wattling' when you watch matches, players moving back and forth quickly)

and boom, you catch his button with your own, and cancel it into xx Etc.

In any case, I'll be more than happy to give you advice! Don't worry.
 
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unfairlight

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8 frames of delay lol
tekken 7 is better, enjoy being reamed in the ass with crapcum dlc characters
 
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aweigh

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veealune

sf V AE has 6.4 frames of buffered input delay

it shipped with 8.1

currently CAPCOM has said absolutely nothing about further reductions, and it is highly doubtful.

for reference:

TEKKEN 7 = currently has 7.1 frames of buffered input delay, yes, more than SF V! However it is apples/oranges situation as the 3D engine of Tekken and the one for 2D fighters, although they CAN be designed to operate similarly (re: those polygonal 3D Street Fighter "EX" games), Tekken (and SC, and VF, etc) do not operate under a 3-frame-startup minimum for normals.

So, Tekken 7 is simultaenously "offline laggier" than SF 5, and simultaenously impossible to make a direct comparison to because most normals (normals are moves such as punches or kicks that don't require a special input to execute)--

--in Tekken most normals are, at their FASTEST (in terms of start-up frames), around 7-10 frames, whereas SF V (and every single 2D fighter, EVER) operates with the baseline of a 3-frame-startup for the fastest normals.

I'll be here if you need me folks, answering your questions and explaining what things are, don't worry! :)
 
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unfairlight

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The problem with SFV latency is that SFIV was far better with about 4 frames. Tekken latency isn't as much of a problem because Tekken Tag 2 had 7-8 frames latency too, so it wasn't as much of an issue to Tekken fans, and they reduced latency to around 5 frames in December on PS4.
 
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aweigh

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veealune

i agree whole-heartedly. SF 4's "latency" (not exactly the correct terminology; we're talking about a buffer which holds back a certain amount of frames, and it is not the same buffer as the one which holds special move inputs... lotsa buffers, heh)--

--SF 4 actually had 3.4 frames of buffered input delay on PC and XBOX 360, and 4.1 on PS3.

if you play a few hours of SF 5 then switch without taking a break to SF 4 it will literally feel like you just started living in fast-foward movement.

Right now I gotta go do laundry but later I'll post about why SF V's fundamental game play is so different from SF 4's and I want to do it because it actually has extremely little to do with SF 5's 6.4 frames of buffered input delay (although that is definitely one of the reasons why).

for now, a TL;DR:

...essentially SF 5 has twice the delay on buffered input in the game engine which means that although the frame data for the characters is the same, i.e. a 3-frame jab is a 3-frame jab in both SF4 and in SF5, the actual mechanical movement and responsiveness between what is happening on-screen and what was inputted by the players is, in SF 5, literally "twice as slow" as it was in SF4, indeed also as in any other 2D fighters.

Ryu's jump has the same amount of total frames in sf4 and in sf5, but in sf5 it is twice as hard to effectively Anti-Air Ryu's jump than it used to be SF 4 (or any other current 2D fighter).

You're seeing ryu jumping and you input your anti-air move/etc, and it gets stuffed or something else happens because you didn't do it early enough to compensate for the doubled amount of buffered input delay.

Additionally, since in SF 5 they removed invincibility frames from back-dashes in order to make the game more "aggressive" (SF: Third Strike was like this as well) and, furthermore because you cannot "back out" of a special move by spending EX-meter and FADC'ing out of it like in SF 4: the result is that in SF 5 your defensive options are reduced to:

- Blocking
- Anti-Airing perfectly, but if you fuck it up the jump-in combo will do 40% DMG
- Some other misc. action that falls into either of the two camps above

The idealistic hope was that SF 5 would promote "a man's game" where if you do a Shoryuken you better be sure it's good, because you won't be able to spend meter to FADC out of it if opponent blocks it, and the same reasoning applies to returning backdashes to how they were in SF: 3rd Strike (no invincibility frames).

Lastly, for now, for honestly reasons I can't even coherently put into sentences (even playing devil's advocate here for CAPCOM), they designed all of SF 5's normals and special moves (most of them, large majority) to leave the attacker in "plus frames", which means that for example:

Ryu can dash up to your face, in SF 5, and do two consecutive standing MP's, you block them, and guess what? you cannot punish him; if attack or something after the 2nd st. MP, ryu is plus and he can block, counter-attack, etc.

Throw him., you say? No my friend, they also made a radically different from SF 4 approach to "push-back", i.e. in SF 5 when characters attack and opponent blocks BOTH characters will be pushed away although obviously the attacker is the one who is pushed back the most.

So that is why, in a nutshell, any SF 5 you will see:

- A LOT OF JUMPING (the reward outweighs the risk disproportionately)
- Characters who are "on their turn", i.e. Bison, for example, doing like 4 block-strings in a row and the other player blocking and waiting to tech the inevitable throw... he cannot backdash out of Bison's pressure (using Bison as an example, applies universally), and he cannoy mash SRK during Bison's strings because...

They removed invincibility frames from "reversal attacks", i.e. "Shoryuken"-type special moves, except when they are "EX", so you have to spend meter.

This is a first for Street Fighter, no other street fighter has featured so little ways to defend or to manipulate the flow of the attacking player and/or adjust your own; there are simply too few options.

Reading this you may think, on the surface, that it does indeed sound like they were "right" decisions, i.e. no backdashing on wake-up every time (although obviously in SF 4 you could anticipate that and punish them for doing it), and you can't just "mash reversal" because a simple JAB will stuff it.

it's a c ompletely different game... and I didn't even touch on the changes done to the throw systems and the new "Priority System" for normals in SF5, which is in my hubmle opinion the single biggest mistake.

(Priority System is complicated but basically = SF 5 crush-counters)

Crush-counters are absolute cancer because they have irrevocably warped traditional neutral play and "footsies" and whiff-punishment.

All that said it's still fun... but it's also the first SF i've ever stopped playing for months and months at a time without missing it.
 
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unfairlight

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I read that they basically purposefully increased latency to make the game more about aggression rather than defense, and that also ties into how they really want to make Street Fighter into an intense EE SPURT since aggression is more captivating to watch than defense.
 
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Bullshit, latency has been introduced solely because online play is now the norm. Fighting games are being played online a majority of the time (including in arcades - yes, most Tekken 7 arcade matches are also online), and even though tournaments are still in-person, both Capcom and Namco want to normalize the experience as much as possible. Since online latency cannot be physically avoided at this point in time, their solution was to approximate the offline and online gameplay by artificially introducing delay in the game engine itself. No amount of rationalizing can get around this fact - there's no sensible gameplay reason for latency to be introduced, it's simply a stopgap measure to approximate two modes of play by leveling according to the lowest denominator (i.e. online).

This is a big part of the reason why fighting games have completely lost their appeal to me after I spent over a decade playing them competitively at the arcades. Playing offline now feels like wading through 85ms of delay - which it effectively is. No thanks.
 

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