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Stellaris - Paradox new sci-fi grand strategy game

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by Perkel, Aug 6, 2015.

  1. ilitarist Learned Illiterate Village Idiot

    ilitarist
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    I do believe Wiz tries to make a perfect strategy game.

    But as often happens the most fun parts of a strategy games are directly connected to broken unbalanced stuff. Heroes 3 is one of the most beloved strategy games ever and is still played today even though everyone realizes that the balance is non-existant. With 2.0 Stellaris really got a lot of "fixes". Even if AI didn't catch up new rules will make it much easier for AI to play. They've modified rules so that at every point there're fewer choices, but none of them are totally dumb. For human it's easy to see that you shouldn't just go and colonize a planet in the middle of nowhere that you couldn't even defend. But still sometimes human may think that maybe I'll get it because it's gaia and has special resources and no one will attack there. AI has problems with those subtle calculations so now you can only capture systems nearby. Now it's almost impossible to expand like an idiot. Same with many other aspects of game.

    Same was very much true for EU4 and CK2. Stellaris was inuque in that the game allowed you to screw yourself up much more than in EU4/CK2. Now you can't.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
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  2. MadMaxHellfire Magister

    MadMaxHellfire
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    are you saying that they took fun away attempting to give me some fun?
     
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  3. Jason Liang Cipher

    Jason Liang
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    The problem with Stellaris is the tech tree.
     
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  4. ilitarist Learned Illiterate Village Idiot

    ilitarist
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    They wanted to give you a better strategy game.

    For details see how RTS were murdered by devs listening only to hardcore players and developing overcomplicated mess of a game made for multiplayer with no proper campaign.
     
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  5. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    More like trying to take your money without doing any work. Most of their work could be done in days by modders,while their full dev team is doing it for months.
     
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  6. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    wat

    RTS was murdered by devs listening to their focus groups telling them that controlling more than 1 unit at a time was too complex. And their focus groups were right, hence ASSFAGGOTS.
     
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  7. Alfgart Augur Patron

    Alfgart
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    Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Blizzard and Warcraft 3 killed the RTS genre
     
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  8. Nirvash Learned

    Nirvash
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    Base build rts are just a niche, no market for modern big budget games. (and stuff like assfaggots cover most of the rts gameplay, traditional base building suck ass)

    Is just more bandaid for a crap ai in a broken system.
     
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  9. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    Why? Shitty rts games killed the genre,not a success of one game. Don't get me wrong Warcraft 3 is shit.
     
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  10. Jenkem Liturgist Patron

    Jenkem
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    are the expansions good
     
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  11. ThisNameIsFree Learned

    ThisNameIsFree
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    Yeah, robots expansion awesome. 90% of gameplay is queuing fucking robots pops since they need to be built manually. Also it's pretty much the only thing you can do, since apparently robots worse than bio races at everything (even at mining), so outbreeding is your only option.
     
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  12. ilitarist Learned Illiterate Village Idiot

    ilitarist
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    I think Leviathans is almost required, in a good way.

    It makes space more lived in. Enclaves are very nice to have in your borders and protect - you can interact with them even if they're outside of your borders but it's a little harder, plus some of your factions like having them. Giant monsters and other curiosities in space create interesting situations like the link between you and other empire is guarded by Dimensional Horror. Without that expansion space is much more boring. They create special nodes worth fighting for; I feel otherwise the space is mostly even and in wars your blob just consumes other blob; capturing enemy Enclave or special system with Infinity Machine or something is the best analogue of capturing enemy trade center or strait province in EU4.

    As for the others... Utopia adds some starting options and gives 3 ways of ascension (psionics, bioengineering and androidization) which are all not as interesting as they sound. And the bonuses you get from them feel boring. It also adds megastructures but those are vanity projects, you build big research center that gives +250 of all research... And costs 100 000 minerals and 100 energy upkeep and 300 influence. Ah, there are also habitats which are relatively powerful as they allow you to have much more pops in your empire - they won't be as productive as pops on planets but still good. Though don't think it allows for tall play; it gives your end-game empire that is already half of the galaxy an opportunity to get even more planets.

    I didn't get Synthetic Dawn but as I understand it mostly gives you additional starting options as well as lets meeting synthetic empires. With Utopia you can eventually become a synthetic empire anyway but AI is hesitant to do this. Adds to replayability, I guess. Good kind of expansions, you get it when you want more of the game and you don't lose anything by not having it.

    Apocalypse adds bigger ships, planetary destruction/conversion/robotization weapons and Space Mongols. Space Mongols are kinda like Fallen Empires but pirates, you can pay them to raid other guys, they can get special event making them rabid. Other stuff is well, ok, you may have bigger ships. Also some new starting options. Same as Synthetic Dawn, get it when you like the game and want more of it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
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  13. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    There's actually one major advantage that robots have, which is that they can have the best leaders who can not only have extremely high skill cap (provided you reach it without hitting the level-lock trait they can get) but will also live forever unless killed by random event. But yea, robots are pretty badly shafted by not multiplying like rabbits.

    Because at the moment my ability to show up online at all is rather limited due to stuff, so I simply couldn't cover the mandogrind even if I tried. Within the entire time limit of the event, I could do just 9 runs at best in total.
     
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  14. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    Any helpful codexer has the 2.0.2 beta patch for inventory non-removers? I think I just found 2.0.1
     
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  15. Jimmious Arcane

    Jimmious
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    I can probably help you later today but I'd suggest to avoid the beta patch since the whole war system(no auto peace) it "tries" will not even be in the game finally
     
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  16. Norfleet Moderator

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    Obviously. That's why you need to merely show up to QUEUE it so you can do it next time when you're less of a crapsack.
     
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  17. mbv123 Savant

    mbv123
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    Started watching Star Trek TOS and I'm in a mood for space strategy games. Never played Stellaris (nor any 4x game for that matter). Is this a good entry to the genre?
     
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  18. MadMaxHellfire Magister

    MadMaxHellfire
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    definitely entry level.
     
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  19. Norfleet Moderator

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    Probably not, since Stellaris is full of counterintuitive sadistic Paradox mechanics, where doing the right thing results in the wrong outcome or punishment for doing that thing.
     
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  20. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    Tons of strategy games are like that, but Stellaris AI is poor enough to survive and win almost regardless of how badly you play, and you'll never be caught off guard by some paradigm-shifting weapon or ability like in MoO or even a ship that really hard counters you like in Distant Worlds. Which is also one of its weaknesses.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
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  21. whatevername Arcane

    whatevername
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    Play Master of Orion 2.
    Stellaris is not a 4x game because you're penalized for expanding in every version; eXpand is one of the x in 4x. The game gets worse with every update and the AI is terrible.
     
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  22. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    The expansion penalties are so small now they might as well not be there. Alpha Centauri has harsher expansion penalties.
     
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  23. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    Honestly I'm after the performance fixes that 2.0.2 aparently gives. My computer is a potato, I need more performance, especially after they removed the borders.mesh command on 2.0.0



    Civilization 4 also penalized you for expanding early on, I don't see anything wrong with it.
     
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  24. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    Problems I have with Stellaris so far:

    1. You know, I wish they got rid of the Pop Grid system and replaced it with something else, maybe something more like Victoria, I dunno.
    As it is, most worlds end more or less the same thing. You can't, say, make a world into your Tranton/Coruscant by stuffing it with billions over billions of people, with enough infraestructure and food to sustain it. Which is weird because Precursor civilizations clearly did that in the Stellaris universe.

    At some point, if you don't expand, your food production ends up being worth shit because you have no space to grown. What the fuck are those people even doing with all that food that just hits the max limit? "Fuck, our food reached the arbitrary limit, thrown it into the sun". "Wait we could use it feed even more population in our super-techno advanced star-nation that powers itself with Zero-Point Energy" "Shut up and load those crates into the rocket".

    It also means stuff like Barbaric Despoilers and Nihilistic Acquisition is immensely pointless, because you can't just take most of your enemy's population and turn your planets into huge slave camps, or sell all those slaves into the galactic slave market.

    Historically, population was very rarely limited by space. Fuck, we could cram trillions on Planet Earth if we had enough energy and food.


    2. Pirates are retarded. They spawn on one of your border systems, destroy some of your mines for teh lulz, and then go back to their stations to await death.
    Honestly, if I handled pirates:
    a) Pirates would be a non-state diplomatic factor, akin to Stations and Marauders, but with options more akin to normal states. They have the race of the nation that spawned them, using ethics of dissent groups within (except Pacifist), but their civics attract dissidents from other nations. I'm thinking they would be a far weaker, more unified version of marauders.
    b) Pirates "raid" stations in hit-and-run attacks to steal their wealth, avoid armed stations unless they know they can take them and there is no player fleet nearby.
    c) Pirates don't have territory or stations, they hit-and-run constantly in any nearby nations.
    d) Pirates can be paid off not to raid (space Danegeld), or given "Pirate Haven" territories inside a nation's borders, allowing it to use that nation to as a haven from pursuing forces, while raiding everyone else.
    e) Attacks on stations give minerals, energy, food and research to pirates, allowing them to get stronger, build habitats, etc.
    d) Eventually Pirates can start vassalizing or even taking over entire nations, if they have enough strength.


    3. Too many damn "+%something" civics, governments and traditions. We need less "MOAR NUMBERS" and more things that allow you to do things that bend or change the rules.

    4. Related: The Traditions trees are too small, which means your real choice is which ones you will adopt first.
    Traditions are meant to be the Ideas from EUIV, right? Ideas in EUIV work because you can't have ALL of them, and National Ideas/Traditions make it so that every nation is unique. They should just expand the Trees deeper, or make more. Oh yeah, we need more and better Ascension Perks, half of them are useless shit lke "Enigmatic Engineering".
     
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  25. whatevername Arcane

    whatevername
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    You're right, +330% is so small it might as well not be there.
    [​IMG]
     
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