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Stellaris - Paradox new sci-fi grand strategy game

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,184
yes its almost as if they released stellaris 2. Waging war is a lot more convenient now and stations means something, you can protect chokepoints, it protects them so good i notice the AI mid game wasnt even able to plan and launch attacks anymore.That and the space mongols settling next to me it probably prevented all attacks and broke the AI. Space travel seems a bit too slow for my taste too.
So they removed free travel to allow choke points, and now AI is unable to make any gains? Adding into it a problem of fallen empire on one side, and fanatic purifiers on the other side of only two star lanes that went from your empire? Simultaneously slowing down travel on lanes to previous free travel, and nerfed every ascension perk thus empires are less unique?
There's also the exhaustion system, you dont have to press multiple planets claim before launching war you just invade and take as much as you want , except exhaustion kick in, if you are occupied you gain some no problem with that but if you win a space battle you gain lots of exhaustion . At 100% exhaustion it force statu quo and you keep what you conquered but the enemy too.So you are winning the war, you win a big battle , 100% exhaustion they have no more fleet but they took a few of your systems, force white peace they keep it .... You can make larger lang grab if you outmach completely the enemy else its as slow as ever.AS for perks , you need more unity it seems , and the bigger you are the less unity you get, more systems means less research and less unity.I am at end game i got 4 perks , thats all.
Except that in overall its less clicks to do stuff , and more convenient to play.As for the battle system, its still the biggest stack win, ive not noticed tech making much difference .
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,254
Played a bit as a fanatical purifier.

- Fortress-starports are fucking useless. OK, maybe they work on Normal, but on Insane they just get shat down instantly after sucking up thousands of minerals to build and hundreds of energy to maintain. For reference they seem to cap out at around 50k power, but the game seems to overvalue large single units so expect even less. If you want to use them in battles put the module on them that lowers the enemy's chance to disengage, then dogpile with your navy to wreck them.
- Land Troops are not fucking useless. AI will just sit around bombing them for years before invading. Strong/Very Strong is probably a legitimate pick now.
- Claiming lots of space early now gives huge advantages to players, since you get both star base limit (star bases can give lots of energy/some food or force limit) and cheap resources. Hyperlanes make it pretty easy to block AIs on choke points, you'd think on insane they'd be shitting outposts everywhere but I claimed like 1/5th of the normal size galaxy for my own. Definitely want to maximize influence gain for these. Energy seems way more prevalent as a space-harvestable resource, you'll not have problems colonizing multiple planets at once.
- Research penalties have completely changed, now bigger is pretty much always better. No reason not to blob now. I was half assing it and at around 150 planets my normalized tech rate was around 200/200/200. Even staying on one planet with a science nexus would only get you around 250/250/250 + planet.
- Ship balance seems broken again. Now that you don't need stuff like plasma to beat 80/90% resistance armor there's no reason for half the advanced weapons, in fact plasma gives -75% penalty against shields on top of lower base damage. I ended up using kinetic artillery + Tachyon Lance battlecruisers, which stacked up +25 tracking and +30 chance to hit from other sources so they mowed down stuff of all sizes easily. In general ship class unlocks seem to mean a lot less now, if anything small ships seem to have advantage early on since evasion is the only real defensive ability ships have. Weapons mean way more but of course you can loot them.
- The individual fleet cap is 100% just tedious bullshit. It would have mattered if they kept leaders costing influence but now that leaders come from energy you can easily run 4+ fleets, so all splitting fleets does is make it harder to manage properly as one fleet runs ahead of the other or w/e.
- 1000 naval cap was easily hit (and required) while fighting the contingency crisis. If I didn't have FP bonuses I bet soloing crisis would be impossible (though I did set crisises to start in 2300, had they been on 2400 the whole galaxy would have been conquered, as it is they only appeared 2 planets before I technically "won"). Dunno how the heck you're expect to beat above 1x crisis difficulty stuff due to exponential costs above the cap. It would seem to be impossible since it's not like the AI will ever be worth shit at helping out. Just looks like Paradox was tired of people complaining that the game ground to a halt with big fleets, so they nerfed fleet sizes.
- Master of Nature is now shit (lol 100 influence for 1-3 tiles). Habitats OP thanks to above research change.
- War exhaustion is pretty sensible and works. Thankfully purifiers can take any system they conquer, needing to claim systems seems shitty. At least non-purifiers can get a lot more influence from rivals and factions though, so maybe it balances out and you can still abuse habitat spam.
- Ships are slow as fuck now. You'll never be able to get anywhere quickly. As always, this hurts the AI way more than it hurts you. A huge federation spanning half the galaxy declared on me, by the time they had a proper doomstack (around 190k, my 5 fleets were around 50k apiece and scattered across the galaxy), they also had 80 WE from my conquering a whole empire and they only conquered one planet before accepting a peace.

Overall meh/10. Will probably have a lot fixed in 4-6 months. DLC probably not worth it.

did the battles improve?advanced smaller force has a chance against bigger not so advanced fleet?

Honestly didn't even notice. Since as mentioned ship classes don't matter hugely and weapon/defense parts can be scavenged, you'll probably never be more than 1 tech ahead or behind of anyone. The research change which made small empires not massively better than large empires (and large empires being better mid/late after they've built up a bit) removes any chance of the "I'm in 5th-tier of weapon repeatables by 2300 and you're still on tier 3 weapons, lol" stuff. The main change is that you usually only lose 1/3rd or so of your fleet max if you lose. Ships retreating from combat and having reduced stats after taking damage also sort of tilt things back towards the bigger fleet.

Oh, and I almost forgot: Colossus world destroyers. Fucking useless piece of shit. 15k of minerals, huge research time, an ascension perk. Has zero actual use in combat and only good for blowing up worlds. Worst of all, by unlocking it you also unlock a half-dozen weapon replacements, in case you cared what color beam the world destroyer uses. These WILL pollute the fuck out of the research cards you draw. What a complete waste of time, Paradox should be ashamed for making something so worthless and trying to get people to pay for it. Do not under any circumstances pick this ascension perk. Pick the fucking +unity perk as your 8th if you have to.
 
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Seethe

Arbiter
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Messages
967
Fuck, I don't like the tune I'm hearing in the last pages. I was hoping 2.0 would save this game and I can finally play it.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,184
Played a bit as a fanatical purifier.

- Fortress-starports are fucking useless. OK, maybe they work on Normal, but on Insane they just get shat down instantly after sucking up thousands of minerals to build and hundreds of energy to maintain. For reference they seem to cap out at around 50k power, but the game seems to overvalue large single units so expect even less. If you want to use them in battles put the module on them that lowers the enemy's chance to disengage, then dogpile with your navy to wreck them.
- Land Troops are not fucking useless. AI will just sit around bombing them for years before invading. Strong/Very Strong is probably a legitimate pick now.
- Claiming lots of space early now gives huge advantages to players, since you get both star base limit (star bases can give lots of energy/some food or force limit) and cheap resources. Hyperlanes make it pretty easy to block AIs on choke points, you'd think on insane they'd be shitting outposts everywhere but I claimed like 1/5th of the normal size galaxy for my own. Definitely want to maximize influence gain for these. Energy seems way more prevalent as a space-harvestable resource, you'll not have problems colonizing multiple planets at once.
- Research penalties have completely changed, now bigger is pretty much always better. No reason not to blob now. I was half assing it and at around 150 planets my normalized tech rate was around 200/200/200. Even staying on one planet with a science nexus would only get you around 250/250/250 + planet.
- Ship balance seems broken again. Now that you don't need stuff like plasma to beat 80/90% resistance armor there's no reason for half the advanced weapons, in fact plasma gives -75% penalty against shields on top of lower base damage. I ended up using kinetic artillery + Tachyon Lance battlecruisers, which stacked up +25 tracking and +30 chance to hit from other sources so they mowed down stuff of all sizes easily. In general ship class unlocks seem to mean a lot less now, if anything small ships seem to have advantage early on since evasion is the only real defensive ability ships have. Weapons mean way more but of course you can loot them.
- The individual fleet cap is 100% just tedious bullshit. It would have mattered if they kept leaders costing influence but now that leaders come from energy you can easily run 4+ fleets, so all splitting fleets does is make it harder to manage properly as one fleet runs ahead of the other or w/e.
- 1000 naval cap was easily hit (and required) while fighting the contingency crisis. If I didn't have FP bonuses I bet soloing crisis would be impossible (though I did set crisises to start in 2300, had they been on 2400 the whole galaxy would have been conquered, as it is they only appeared 2 planets before I technically "won"). Dunno how the heck you're expect to beat above 1x crisis difficulty stuff due to exponential costs above the cap. It would seem to be impossible since it's not like the AI will ever be worth shit at helping out. Just looks like Paradox was tired of people complaining that the game ground to a halt with big fleets, so they nerfed fleet sizes.
- Master of Nature is now shit (lol 100 influence for 1-3 tiles). Habitats OP thanks to above research change.
- War exhaustion is pretty sensible and works. Thankfully purifiers can take any system they conquer, needing to claim systems seems shitty. At least non-purifiers can get a lot more influence from rivals and factions though, so maybe it balances out and you can still abuse habitat spam.
- Ships are slow as fuck now. You'll never be able to get anywhere quickly. As always, this hurts the AI way more than it hurts you. A huge federation spanning half the galaxy declared on me, by the time they had a proper doomstack (around 190k, my 5 fleets were around 50k apiece and scattered across the galaxy), they also had 80 WE from my conquering a whole empire and they only conquered one planet before accepting a peace.

Overall meh/10. Will probably have a lot fixed in 4-6 months. DLC probably not worth it.

did the battles improve?advanced smaller force has a chance against bigger not so advanced fleet?

Honestly didn't even notice. Since as mentioned ship classes don't matter hugely and weapon/defense parts can be scavenged, you'll probably never be more than 1 tech ahead or behind of anyone. The research change which made small empires not massively better than large empires (and large empires being better mid/late after they've built up a bit) removes any chance of the "I'm in 5th-tier of weapon repeatables by 2300 and you're still on tier 3 weapons, lol" stuff. The main change is that you usually only lose 1/3rd or so of your fleet max if you lose. Ships retreating from combat and having reduced stats after taking damage also sort of tilt things back towards the bigger fleet.

Oh, and I almost forgot: Colossus world destroyers. Fucking useless piece of shit. 15k of minerals, huge research time, an ascension perk. Has zero actual use in combat and only good for blowing up worlds. Worst of all, by unlocking it you also unlock a half-dozen weapon replacements, in case you cared what color beam the world destroyer uses. These WILL pollute the fuck out of the research cards you draw. What a complete waste of time, Paradox should be ashamed for making something so worthless and trying to get people to pay for it. Do not under any circumstances pick this ascension perk. Pick the fucking +unity perk as your 8th if you have to.
After a day playing it i get to the same conclusions, i wont build a colossus again, a perk wasted, long research time , what do you get ? A fragile ship with very long charging time to wreck a planet, you could have the same result, much faster, just bombing the planet.First crisis i met was prethorian, insanely hard as they spawned the other side of the galaxy 40X the amount of fleets you can gather,plus it take ages to reach them and as purifier no one let me cross borders.
Habitas are a must indeed, no population research malus but a planet and number of system one. Next time ill try a one system full habitat game .
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,254
Wow, I severely underestimated how shitty the claim system is. You want planets? Fuck off, claim the border systems with stations or the influence cost skyrockets. You need to claim a 2-energy system? Pay 50 fucking influence you greedy mother fucker. Captured the last system of an empire that has 20 mining station systems left? Well you didn't claim those stations so they just evaporate and anyone else can just walk in to occupy them unless you spend the normal influence and minerals to make a starbase.

This is truly awful. I originally thought claims were just for getting stuff in wars you couldn't conquer, and for ensuring allies didn't take it. No, pay purple mana for EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING. Fuck whoever thought this was a good idea. Interstellar Dominion/Rival/Xenophobe is basically required if you want to have enough influence to do anything.

Put it this way, a 1k galaxy would cost roughly 50k-100k influence to conquer. At 5 influence a month, that's 833-1666 years. Even only conquering the 40% needed for victory and with a 50% discount, you're looking at 166-333 years of spending influence on literally nothing other than conquest. No habitats, megastructures, edicts, alliances, anything else.

Also if you want to cheese the AI with early expansion trade communication/sensor rights so they let you contact other AIs and get free influence. Just chain your way through the galaxy this way to contact everyone and you'll have a cool 500-1k free influence at the start to occupy pretty much everything.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,254
it's not bad per se, it's terribly overpriced. cut its price by 2/3rds and it's fine.

It's bad per se because it's entirely nonsensical. You'd expect to GAIN influence by winning wars and bringing home huge amounts of spoils, not lose influence. That's roughly half the reason real life countries go to war, war has always skyrocketed the leadership's popularity and influence (assume they aren't completely blown the fuck out). Yet we're supposed to believe that even blatant warmonger empires in Stellaris need to spend their influence to take land? That fucking HIVEMINDS and ROBOTS need to spend influence to take land?
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,686
I just seen a temporally obtained resource during war traded for 30 years for loads of stuff.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
That Armageddon expansion pack. Looks like they just once again copied mods that already added the same thing and probably better.

And I bet said free mods will once again "mysteriously" disappear from the steam workshop so that people have to buy the crappy expansion pack.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
It's bad per se because it's entirely nonsensical. You'd expect to GAIN influence by winning wars and bringing home huge amounts of spoils, not lose influence.
Humiliate doesn't give you 100 anymore? You don't need to fight wars necessarily to take every piece of territory yourself. You could just do it to punch people in the face. Keep around a collection of minor weak polities that you can bully for influence.

That fucking HIVEMINDS and ROBOTS need to spend influence to take land?
I thought Exterminators and the like just immediately take things now?
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,184
It's bad per se because it's entirely nonsensical. You'd expect to GAIN influence by winning wars and bringing home huge amounts of spoils, not lose influence.
Humiliate doesn't give you 100 anymore? You don't need to fight wars necessarily to take every piece of territory yourself. You could just do it to punch people in the face. Keep around a collection of minor weak polities that you can bully for influence.

That fucking HIVEMINDS and ROBOTS need to spend influence to take land?
I thought Exterminators and the like just immediately take things now?
You have perma extermination claim that cost you no influence , but that casus belli only happens with neighbors, so you could have to spend considerable amount of influence to reach them, and also crippling your research since more systems= more penalty.Not a big deal although as the tech is as irrelevant than before if not more.
 
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Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,241
Location
Space Hell
Still holding on top
Fs3EkW.png
 

Jimmious

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
5,132
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I gotta say I'm really enjoying my 2.0 game. Like really much. Stellaris has become an actual game that is fun to play, not a mish-mash of random features. Of course it still has some bugs and shit but damn it's fun.
They made most systems actually work in a reasonable (FOR A GAME) manner and they can build from that.

* The complaints of the dude above are kinda funny - to the point of "git gud" territory. Also don't LARP too much, Influence is just a resource and you spend it, get over it. Plus you can get Influence pretty fast and expansion doesn't take so long, although it is a bit more "reasonable" compared to before
 

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,241
Location
Space Hell
"After taking in player feedback on 2.0 'Cherryh', we're making a number of changes to War Exhaustion. Among them is the removal of forced Status Quo peace, to be replaced with the following penalty while continuing to fight at 100% exhaustion."
DW-DfopW4AAkLhG.jpg:large
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,686
"After taking in player feedback on 2.0 'Cherryh', we're making a number of changes to War Exhaustion. Among them is the removal of forced Status Quo peace, to be replaced with the following penalty while continuing to fight at 100% exhaustion."
DW-DfopW4AAkLhG.jpg:large
This means AI would refuse peace, and after 30 years of fighting there would be white peace, and empire would lose shitload of influence, thus it will not be able to do any expansions or claims.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,545
Seems like with this update the game got even more arbitrary, which is the cancer of modern strategy games. Shame.
 

Ludovic

Valravn Games
Developer
Joined
Mar 7, 2016
Messages
71
Location
The Cold North
This is a good update. They've actively worked on AI, more cohesive mechanics, increased customization/flavor stuff, meaningful early/mid/late game progressions and improved combat. Is it perfect? No. Will some people dislike the design choices? Yes.

But it's making the game incrementally better and focusing on actual gameplay. Contrast this with the CIV 6 expansion, which doesn't do anything about the horrible AI, adds disconnected features, slap-stick leader animations, no customization, etc.

It's also adding even more stuff for modders to play around with. From I've heard the lead designer also worked outside office hours programming and scripting features and content that he really wanted in. That's the work of someone who is an actual gamer. Even if you don't agree with his tastes and decisions, that's still something to respect, imo.
 
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Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,254
* The complaints of the dude above are kinda funny - to the point of "git gud" territory. Also don't LARP too much, Influence is just a resource and you spend it, get over it. Plus you can get Influence pretty fast and expansion doesn't take so long, although it is a bit more "reasonable" compared to before

It's deceptive because it works out fine in the early game. You have a long period of building up influence between your initial expansion and your military action. You also have rivals and are making short hops in claims. It's still a dumbfuck design decision to make building active play (war) worse than passive play (building habitats), but w/e. Mid/Late game, you want to be at war constantly, you probably won't have rivals now that individual empires being too small in comparison screws you, and all the big empires have outposts everywhere which means paying massive penalties in the extra influence per hop from border stuff.

It's truly awful. Used to be you could win a game around 2300-2320 on huge galaxy at a leisurely pace. Now it's pushed back by 50+ years of waiting, and that's if you maximize your claim bonuses and completely disregard all other influence usage. Ironically Paradox listened to people who said there should be an option to move the crises ahead in time so they'd come into play before the game ended, but then they decided to fuck with the game length and force players to wait endlessly for purple mana anyway.
 

Jimmious

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
5,132
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Let's just agree to disagree because it really boils down to what kind of game you want to play - and no, it's not only "this is bad, this is good".
 

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