Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Stellaris - Paradox new sci-fi grand strategy game

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by Perkel, Aug 6, 2015.

  1. trais Arcane

    trais
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    Click here and disable ads!
    One step forward, two steps back. I lost all hope for this game ever getting good.
     
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  2. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

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    I am surprised that you had any hope for that shit.
     
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  3. Space Satan Arcane

    Space Satan
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    Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is about two topics: Technology in the 2.0 'Cherryh' update, and the release of the Humanoids Species Pack that is coming out today and will be available for purchase around 15:00 CET.

    Humanoids Species Pack
    We already covered the details of the Humanoids Species Pack in Dev Diary #95, so rather than repeating myself, I am simply going to post the changelog, along with a short excerpt on the new prescripted empire, the Voor Technocracy, that we modeled on the 'loading screen aliens' and which are coming in the species pack along with the portraits, ships, city graphics, new advisor voices and music.


    On the Voor Technocracy:
    Dev Diary #96, this also means that the Torpedo/Missile Boat corvette layout is also immediately available.

    Secondly, we have decided to increase the number of tech tiers in the game to make technological progression a more consistent experience. For those that do not know, each technology currently belongs to a tier between 1-4, with a certain number of tier 1 technologies being required before you can research tier 2 technologies in the same field, and so on. However, because the 4th tier is only used for end-game technologies like Mega-Engineering, this means that technologies with more than 3 steps such as reactors, shields and armor are spread haphazardly over the tiers, and it's not uncommon to have Cold Fusion research come up as available immediately after researching Fusion, for example. To better fit the tiers to the technologies we have, we have decided to increase the number of tiers to 5, with the tiers looking roughly like this:
    • Tier 1: Basic Early Game Tech (Fusion, Automated Exploration, Robotic Workers, etc)
    • Tier 2: Advanced Early Game Tech (Cold Fusion, Destroyers, Planetary Capital, etc)
    • Tier 3: Basic Mid Game Tech (Antimatter, Cruisers, Wormholes, etc)
    • Tier 4: Advanced Mid Game Tech (Zero Point Power, Battleships, Empire Capital, etc)
    • Tier 5: Late-Game Tech (Mega-Engineering, Ascension Theory, Repeatables, etc)
    We have also added a large number of new technologies to the game, both in the form of techs that handle new features (like Wormhole Stabilization and Space Trading) and to improve on existing ones, like a line of techs for each ship hull (Corvette, Destroyer, etc) that improves hull points and construction speed. Additionally, we have changed the general progression of ship components so that each upgrade is now more significant. For example, blue lasers now offer approximately 30% higher damage than red lasers, rather than a mere 10-15% as in the current live build. This should mean that focusing on technology is now an actual valid alternative to simply massing ships, though we still want to avoid the tech-as-only-viable-path-to-victory problem that many 4x games suffer from. Finally, we've also added some new highly advanced 'tier 6' technologies to Fallen Empires that cannot be researched normally and are only attainable by scavenging the wrecks of their ships.
    [​IMG]

    Another thing that is changing in 2.0 'Cherryh' is tech costs and the tech penalty. Because of the new Starbase system and the fact that planets are no longer needed to control space, we felt that the old tech penalty based entirely on planets and pops was overly punitive and strongly encouraged having as few planets as possible and relying on space-based resources instead. For this reason, we have changed the Tech and Unity penalties to no longer be based on pops, but rather purely on the number of owned planets and systems, with each owned system and colonized planet adding to your tech and unity costs, and planets overall having less on an impact on tech costs than before. We have also raised the base cost of techs, particularly high tier techs, to compensate for the lowered penalties and slow down late-game tech progression so an empire doesn't have all technologies unlocked within the first century. This should not be taken as playing 'tall' now being unfeasible, just that it is no longer strictly about keeping few planets, but rather limiting the number of systems you expand to in order to benefit from lower tech/unity penalties and the ability to maintain a high ratio of upgraded starbases.

    That's all for today! Next week's dev diary will also be about the Cherryh update, talking about a little usability feature that we call the Fleet Manager. See you then!

    Follow me on twitter for regular tidbits about the projects I'm working on.
    Wiz, 53 minutes ago
    #1


     
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  4. Make America Great Again Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
     
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  5. whatevername Prophet

    whatevername
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    Good job! You will never enter Valhalla for this heresy. Probably will end up as dog food during the fimbul winter.
     
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  6. Zboj Lamignat Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    What the fuck? :lol: can we just get rid of modern game design already and just reset everything to zero? I'd be willing to get back to pong times if it meant we will start getting good games again in a couple decades.
     
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  7. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    We just have to write a bunch of encouraging messages to the only steam account from TRUE Korea.
     
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  8. Dayyālu Arcane

    Dayyālu
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    I feel like I'm on drugs.

    It's not proper design to guarantee that a superior force can easily broke through a clearly inferior one ("inferior" as defined by tech level, organization, terrain etc)?

    Snowballing is a good thing in 4x games, as it avoids annoying stalemates. Furthermore, bigger and more advanced forces in the Real World annihilate enemies with few casualties (golden example, the Pacific War).

    It's like that designer never played a proper 4x, a proper tabletop game, or a match of Axis&Allies.

    I feel like I'm on drugs.
     
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  9. whatevername Prophet

    whatevername
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    Now I know why Luke Skywalker destroyed the Death Star in SWIV while flying a tiny fighter. After (almost?) everyone in the rebel squadron was destroyed, the "Force Disparity Combat Bonus" of +9001% was applied to him. That's what Obi Wan meant by constantly saying "may the Force be with you". They shortened it from "may the Force Disparity Combat Bonus be with you" so the audience wouldn't puke.
    It all makes sense now.
     
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  10. Lightsinthesky Arcane

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    Doesn't this just shift the meta away from Corvette Spam to Battleship spam?
     
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  11. Thane Solus Arcane

    Thane Solus
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    First 2-3 hours in this game were quite fun, after that, is shit. Is the most common phrase i hear about the game.

    Its like, this game was made for reviewers and to scam people into buying it :))) Oh fuck, i actually bought the standard edition back then.

    GG Paradox!
     
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  12. Alfgart Augur Patron

    Alfgart
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    Divinity: Original Sin 2
    This patch sounds worse with every new DD
     
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  13. Inf0mercial Learned

    Inf0mercial
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    My thought process is depending on at what level that buff kicks in my thought is star port systems are going to be atrocious to attacks and forts unless in their radius they negate the buff, coz starports are now meant to be super beefy so a 20-30k starport combined with some forts should be able to tip the scales hard enough going half fleet strength with those fire rate buffs combined with def system buffs will be brutal to attack into.

    Combined with def war doctrine and i can see fire rates going sky high. If they negate the buff near starports or forts i can see some hilarity when building static D is worse for you than simply not building any at all, save the money and invest in your economy and ships.
     
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  14. Make America Great Again Spellcaster Ask me about Thief Patron

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    Is this game worth it guys
     
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  15. Make America Great Again Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    Clearly Paradox believes in the law of Conservation of Ninjutsu.

    But seriously what the fuck. Every RTS in history has had to deal with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanchester's_laws, this is the first time I've seen such a blunt and cheap attempt to break it.

    Step 1: Build a space port
    Step 2: Get attacked
    Step 3: Be winning, but mistakenly send 50 corvettes in to help
    Step 4: Lose because you buffed the enemy ships.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017
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  16. MasterSmithFandango Arcane

    MasterSmithFandango
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    Why don't they take a hint from HOI - combined arms bonus. Better balanced fleets perform better, and supply/frontage discourages doomstacking.
     
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  17. Zboj Lamignat Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    Combined arms bonus doesn't give you the "lol weaker guize can into winning too (btw we're from sweden)" edge they are looking for and I guess having frontage penalties in space is too arbitrary even for these mastermind geniuses.
     
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  18. Jimmious Arcane

    Jimmious
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    Some of these new mechanics sound very gamey indeed (especially this "Force Disparity") but in all honesty, if they make the combat PLAY much better and the game to have a more coherent tactical feel, then I don't care.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
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  19. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
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    Maybe they should give the outmassed force a bonus to running like cheap paint instead, so that the fewer there are, the more effectively they can run like cheap paint.
     
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  20. darkpatriot Arcane

    darkpatriot
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    Why did they decide on magically boosting the smaller force rather than penalizing the larger force as would make sense intuitively?

    Assuming they are willing to do more than just penalty based on a fleet being too large, friendly fire being a possibility along with command inefficiency possibly resulting in ships doing non-efficient actions like failing to fire (maybe explained by the ship not orienting correctly to fire its weapons), moving away from battle, possibly moving closer to battle if it is a ship that is supposed to keep it's distance, or inefficient targeting (either concentrating too much fire on a single target above what is needed to destroy it wasting DPS, dispersing fire too much resulting in enemy ships not getting removed as quickly, or just firing weapons at a ship they are inefficient against) would be a more intuitive way of causing doomstacks to take more damage rather than magically boosting the fire rate of the smaller side.

    Although I guess that would involve changing the AI for ships and maybe that would cause too big a performance hit or they don't want to spend the effort developing the ship AI beyond the simplistic AI they currently have.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
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  21. uaciaut Savant

    uaciaut
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    I get that combat is shit and all but is this worth buying for any of its other aspects (e.g. research, diplomacy, exploration, etc)?
     
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  22. Grif Learned

    Grif
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    Nope. Diplomacy is dry as cardboard, the AI aren't all that interesting. Research is just a lottery of 3 random research path each time. Might have made for interesting choices if they actually went the SotS route and gave you a chance of not even getting a tech through the research route. By nah, you eventually get everything and most of the time it's just a +% effect anyway.

    Exploration is quite good, I admit. They captured the sense of exploring a new galaxy for the first time reasonably well, with anomalies, surveys and random events. That's where the famous Stellaris honeymoon comes in.
     
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  23. kris Arcane

    kris
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    Wasnt the battle 4 against two by then? And when he took the shoot on the death star it was really 2 on 1 for the rebels as han took out three imperial vessels with one shot, thats what i call shooting. Not that golf shot by Luke on a stationary target
     
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  24. Stavrophore Learned

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    Corvettes should act as a screen for bigger ships -so enemy capitals will have their accuracy decreased or have worse positioning factor which would make them easier to hit and small weaponry[large guns still able to fire at enemy capitals] tied to fight against corvettes
     
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  25. Make America Great Again Blaine Cis-Het Oppressor

    Blaine
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    Distant Worlds: Universe is on sale for $20 at GOG, can't go wrong with that unless you have serious issues with steep learning curves and RTFM.

    This thread is a 100-plus-page showcase of people who have serious issues with steep learning curves, are easily swayed by pretty graphics, and believe that Paradox... ah, fuck it:

    This thread is [​IMG], Codex Edition. I'll just leave it at that. This obviously doesn't apply to those of you who are here to ridicule the shameless unwashed for enjoying decline. You guys are doing a good job!

    There's really no excuse for decline-wallowing when it comes to the 4X genre, since they're incredibly replayable and you can simply return to 20-year-old 4X games and have a great time. There's not a single reason to play Stellaris except muh graphics and muh "Paradox made a good game one time so this must be good, too." One glance at the UI of this game is all it takes to see the pacifier and diaper factor; at least, it is for anyone who's actually played a 4X with some appreciable complexity and deep mechanics.
     
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