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Stellaris - Paradox new sci-fi grand strategy game

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by Perkel, Aug 6, 2015.

  1. trais Arcane

    trais
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    The problem with Stellaris' combat is that there's not only no penalty for doomstacking all your ships into one big blob, but that it's actually the best strategy you can do. You need a doomstack to beat enemy's doomstack and it's also the best way to minimize loses when attacking spacestations and spaceports. Heck, it's even counter-productive to try even the most basic maneuvers like splitting your fleet in half and flanking the enemy, because actual battle is one giant clusterfuck of ships circling each other in melee range without any tactics whatsoever.


    Basically, whole combat needs to be redesigned from a scratch, no amount of fiddling with this or that will ever fix it.
     
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  2. Jimmious Arcane

    Jimmious
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    Seems like the border system will change in the near future too?? Apparently we're gonna see some important changes with the next DlC
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Jason Liang Cipher

    Jason Liang
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    You guys realize that Stellaris' ship-to-ship combat system is based directly on Europa Universalis' ship-to-ship combat system right?

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Grif Learned

    Grif
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    Been awhile since I played this. Has it gotten better yet? (Last played in patch 1.6, which is the Utopia patch I believe. Was disappointed.)
     
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  5. SmartCheetah Arbiter

    SmartCheetah
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    Not really Grif
    Combat still sucks ass, and it's a major flaw in my opinion. There is no tactics involved whatsoever. You basicly spam ships and send them to fight, usually having two big stacks because AI would avoid you and try to go for undefended planets (while you obliterate their systems)
    Events are repeatable to the point where I can already tell when Space Piracy will start, what can I expect in the beggining etc. + most of the "situation log events" (eg. collecting little aliens, checking out planets to see what could happen to your species) are giving you +X minerals/Energy, +X research points in specific fields. Those rewards seems to be seriously underwhelming. I remember a random event in GalCiv II where - because of my choices - I was given an ancient ship which increased my relative power level to 700% and all other factions were basicly inferior to me. THAT was a total gamechanger, and I would love to see such events in every 4x game. Unfortunately, only thing that matter in Stellaris are few big events (where most of the outcomes give you flat bonuses anyway) and end game crises (which, at this point - you can ignore or obliterate with your fleets.)

    I'd wait for 2-3 more DLC's and big patches before trying it again.
     
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  6. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    Better wait a decade before the game becomes playable.
     
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  7. Grif Learned

    Grif
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    Sadly, I'm really coming around to this thinking.

    Disappointing, but not entirely unexpected. I had expected that they at least try to fix combat, but Paradox being Paradox, it'll take years before they even touch it.
     
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  8. Space Satan Arcane

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  9. Grotesque ±¼ Patron

    Grotesque
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    Divinity: Original Sin Divinity: Original Sin 2
     
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  10. Space Satan Arcane

    Space Satan
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    Centralized shipyands, better than current systems
     
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  11. thesheeep Arcane

    thesheeep
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    Missiles?
    Did some patch make them usable or did you gimp yourself on purpose?

    I recall reading something about them no longer disappearing when their "source" dies, but I might remember wrong.
     
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  12. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    Missiles were quite useful, you just need what for you need them, and they shouldn't have too much PD.
     
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  13. Jimmious Arcane

    Jimmious
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    It seems that the next DLC will be a complete combat overhaul.... Finally. But it won't come soon.
    [​IMG]

    Starting system will be explored, starbases will be per system and limited, fleets have also size limits
     
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  14. Space Satan Arcane

    Space Satan
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    I just hope thye'll make each ship much much much more valuable. With no expendable ships.
     
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  15. SmartCheetah Arbiter

    SmartCheetah
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    Some kind of "ace crew" system would be neat. I don't see a point of having named ships right now as they are basicly copies of each other.

    I wonder what else are they gonna change in this combat overhaul.
     
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  16. Sranchammer Arcane

    Sranchammer
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    They're going to put more lipstick on the pig
     
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  17. Jimmious Arcane

    Jimmious
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    [​IMG]
     
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  18. `Hellion Arbiter

    `Hellion
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    Edit: ninja'd by Jimmious :P


    Dev Diary with more info on the future update coming tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
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  19. Mortmal Arcane

    Mortmal
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    Wonder how much it will cost me again to be able to build space defense, a feature that would be free and done by modders in other games. 60k defense is indeed not enough for end game, hope they dont screw it again.
     
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  20. Jimmious Arcane

    Jimmious
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    It seems the whole combat system will change completely so let's wait and see how they are planning to make it. Anward confirmed also that making fleets have limits is not enough and they have other plans to complement that.
     
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  21. Grif Learned

    Grif
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    If they're smart, they'll also implement the stacking division malus from Hearts of Iron 3. (Eg. stacking too many divisions on one province will result in a combat malus that only grows more severe with each division you put in.)
     
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  22. Space Satan Arcane

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    How are you going to make stacking IN A FUCKING SPACE? HoIIII in terms of naval engagements had command overextension and it still worked not so good. Even in EUIV everyone is moving their army stacks together to pile them up in general battle. The difference is that in EUIV you can have a comeback if you are smart. In Stellaris comebacks are possible only vs AI who cannot prioritize blasting spaceports. With this change at least one part of doomstack war equation will go away and even here I am not sure.
     
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  23. Grif Learned

    Grif
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    Oh it doesn't make sense if you were to look at it realistically. Hell, the multi-day/weeks battles in space didn't fucking make sense either. But giving fleets a stacking penalty if they're together in the same battle would make sense if you're going to implement fleet caps. Otherwise, it'll just mean instead of a giant fleet of 1000 ships, its now 20 fleets of 50 ships moving together, which means nothing changed at all.
     
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  24. thesheeep Arcane

    thesheeep
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    Works fine for EUIV. Doomstacks do not really work well because they drain your manpower so fast.
    You can make use of them, and might win a war, but will be manpower starved for years after that.

    A far better idea is to keep them separated as long as possible and only join for major battles (and to be honest also only because the AI does it).
    Same should work in Stellaris. Just introduce some kind of maintenance limit per starbase/system or whatever. Going beyond that could then increase maintenance by A LOT.
    Of course that would push the game further to being EU in space, but don't we all agree that would be an improvement? ;)

    I don't see a point in introducing a disadvantage for having huge numbers in a battle - especially in space. Having a large fleet just makes sense. You're not the resistance fighting guerilla style.
     
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  25. Space Satan Arcane

    Space Satan
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    Manpower was irrelevant for EUIV for, how long? a year now? Mercs are numberless and quick to hire. Stellaris have no manpower, you can build ships non-stop as long as you have minerals. You cna't win war of attrition because even in EUIV you can throw opponent into a bankrupcy once he can no longer take loans to hire more mercs.
     
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