Vapourware Steam is (NO LONGER) charging for mods now lmao

[CyberP]

Lol Skyrims dungeons No amount of mods can heal that cancerous turd. You faggs better play Dragons Dogma: Dark Arisen for some quality and immersive dungeons,

It can be fixed in one mod. One mod that takes at least two years to make depending on workforce, but TES is highly moddable and it can be done.

Hmm, more Dragon's Dogma praise. Maybe I should give it a second chance, but I can't stand those fucking pawns (and bland NPCs in general), among other things.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

One thing that I find amusing about the (insignificant) ongoing backlash from select mod authors and their supporters is that they think they know more than the huge corporations.
"Vocal minority" is thrown around a lot, by about a handful of people, whilst the petitions and whining on the other side was getting support from hundreds of thousands of people.

Clearly the corporations analyzed the data and made the decision to cut their losses, as a cash cow modders weren't attractive enough for the bad press. They hung the modders out to dry because they weren't worth anywhere near as much as the modders seem to think they are. (even with the 75% cut, capitalism baby!) But yes, clearly a tiny vocal minority caused all that, those silly corporations clearly don't have the insight of some basement dwelling gubmint cheese eating horse armor modder.

 

[Alienman]

Interesting video, but it was mostly complaining about entitlement, how much they hate their audience (nothing new there I guess? Seems everyone in the game-biz hate their audience these days) and of course how hard it is to be a modder. They complain about Steam and Valve also, but it's mostly because of how the situation was handled. They never wanted Valve to remove paid-mods though.

 

[Immortal]

One thing that I find amusing about the (insignificant) ongoing backlash from select mod authors and their supporters is that they think they know more than the huge corporations.
"Vocal minority" is thrown around a lot, by about a handful of people, whilst the petitions and whining on the other side was getting support from hundreds of thousands of people.

Clearly the corporations analyzed the data and made the decision to cut their losses, as a cash cow modders weren't attractive enough for the bad press. They hung the modders out to dry because they weren't worth anywhere near as much as the modders seem to think they are. (even with the 75% cut, capitalism baby!) But yes, clearly a tiny vocal minority caused all that, those silly corporations clearly don't have the insight of some basement dwelling gubmint cheese eating horse armor modder.

Absolutely.. in one hand modders bitch about how "The Community" didn't support the removal of mods.. just internet trolls from 4chan.. Where have we heard this one before. On the other hand though, Dark0ne clearly says in the interview that there is a huge vicious argument going on in the private forums on Nexus (Which is available only to modders that have reached a certain level of downloads / endorsements)

So even the modders themselves as small of a demographic it is.. is fractured and infighting about this issue.

For every entitled self-important modder who saw dollar signs when the workshop was announced and is now walking around with limp dick syndrome, I can name a modder just as successful who either was against paid mods or at the minimum wanted nothing to do with it and believed it would fracture the community.

The modder in this interview is a real special snow flake. He constantly says "Oh I just uploaded my mod to see where things would go" Bullshit you flip flopping coward, you wanted to make money off your mod.

The level of entitlement he has over this is insane. The video is almost chugging out from all the smugness of this asshole. You can tell how butt hurt he is that Valve didn't contact him to join the premium service.

He is constantly bragging about how many downloads and endorsements he is getting for hours on end then always tags on to the end of the sentence "But uhh.. I don't mean to toot my own horn.. heh heh".. Yes you do asshole.

 

[Alienman]

Yeah, you are correct. Those two sounded more reasonable and not as crazy but I wouldn't call it a debate though. It was mostly three people talking about a thing and agreeing on it

 

[Metro]

Who cares about IH-MUR-SHUN? Is anyone really that drawn into the games they play to the tune of E-Larping? I appreciate when a game has an interesting and cohesive world but I certainly never get through a game and exclaim: MY GOD ITS LIKE I WAS ACTUALLY THERE!

 

[CyberP]

MY GOD ITS LIKE I WAS ACTUALLY THERE!

We're not quite there yet, technically. However, you must have attained a state of pure concentration, forgetting (to some degree) about reality around you, really drawn in to the game world. With some games those moments can be special, but any little inconsistency or real world interruption can take it away. A delicate mental state. Of course you are aware you are still you and not Mr Super Dragon Slayer or whatever, but the mental states that can be achieved now show promise for the future, after more technological progress.

Immersion/simulation does matter, but fags like Immortal and Draq have it backwards, and you fail to recognize its value at all.
System Shock 2 or Arx alone at night with the lights off. Easiest way to experience quality immersion for me. I find it hard to get immersed in better looking games like Skyrim because I'm just bored stiff by the molepop gameplay.

 

[Dreaad]

I don't think Beth games are meant to be like that. Open world games in general can't truly draw you in like that, because the story is always an unfocused mess. They are hiking 'I want to be a dragon hero, cowboy, gangster whatever the fuck else simulators. Doesn't mean they aren't fun or good for what they are. Immersion occurs when there is lots of little details, the world and your actions in it seem reasonable and the NPC talk more or less like people not quest givers.

Only open world game that's ever fully 'immersed' me is Gothic 2 and you could probably argue that it's not really an open world game at all, at least not the same way F:NV or Scrolls games are.

Maybe it's easier for people who don't read a lot of fantasy or sci fi and the dialog of Scrolls games seems fine to them. And the dungeons don't feel gamey.... For me though it's just a way to see some pretty graphics and kill some dragons while wearing viking armor. If I want immersion I play isometric games, or adventure games.

 

[Immortal]

Interesting video, but it was mostly complaining about entitlement, how much they hate their audience (nothing new there I guess? Seems everyone in the game-biz hate their audience these days) and of course how hard it is to be a modder. They complain about Steam and Valve also, but it's mostly because of how the situation was handled. They never wanted Valve to remove paid-mods though.

I thought both TB and the guy who runs Nexus were pretty reasonable, but that modder, goddamn, what an ego! Every other word the guy says is praising himself and his mod.

I want to like Dark0ne.. His heart was in the right place and he has done a great service for us.. But he runs Nexus like a Gulag.. The way he talks about hovering his mouse over the delete button of users who "abuse his ToS" by being passive aggressive..

Like holy shit.. The Modding community really is rotten.. It's just filled with a bunch of man children fueled on ego and self-importance squabbling over money / politics and endorsements.

 

[Jick Magger]

Like holy shit.. The Modding community really is rotten.. It's just filled with a bunch of man children fueled on ego and self-importance squabbling over money / politics and endorsements.

Welcome to any artistic scene ever.

 

[Khorne]

I thought both TB and the guy who runs Nexus were pretty reasonable, but that modder, goddamn, what an ego! Every other word the guy says is praising himself and his mod.

I have come to the same conclusion, but damn, the hypocrisy is strong in this interview.
Poor Nick has spent 10 years writing his product, while walking through snow, over the hill, to school.
Now he's gonna starve because "entitled terrorist trolls" have taken away the money he's entitled to.

To expand on the topic a bit more, I pulled this from one of the comment threads.
This bro explained exactly what's wrong with Nick here, better than I ever could.

Spoiler

My opinion on the matter is that he's somehow led to believe that every mod is a product.
Sarcasm aside, I have nothing against Nick, I don't even use his mod, and I think he has a right to make his mod a product if he wants to.
But calling each and every mod a product and deciding that some of them are actually more valuable products than others, isn't goint to fly.
Perhaps he isn't old enough to remember all mods were just hacks that people shared willingly with each other.
And that's coming from someone who remembers quake scene and how many pro players used to like mods that removed, over the ones that add crap.
But who cares about long forgotten history now, eh?

 

[Immortal]

Things have mostly died down..
I wanted to make one final post about some larger / more talented Modders who spoke out against Paid Modding (Not neutrals who sat on the sidelines but actually said a hard NO )
So this list won't have any Flip Floppers or cowards who wanted to play the "wait and see game"

These are people who at the very least said they won't take part and in some situations said "Nobody should take part this is retarded"



The Creator of Interesting NPC's
(One of the highest quality and most indepth mods)
His mod would probably never happen with a paid mod system in place. many of his voice actors and volunteers worked free and all he asks is you whitelist his site so he can pay for hosting.

WE WON!!!! Valve agreed to remove paid mods from the Workshop!!!

Read all about it here:

http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218

Sorry for the short post, I’ve got two midterms today that I Should be studying for…

The Infamous Fore Post:
FNIS is one of the reasons anyone can even do animation period.. It's unlikely if Fore was pro paid mods he would ever publicly release this resource.. it would be too large of a competitive edge and it's more likely he would license it out instead.

Train Wizard's Blog
Train wizard has made many amazing quest mods.. Some where you travel to different planets or go into space.. The dude is constantly pushing the limit and used to even berate modders for taking so long to do mods that had half the content.

(In regards to Midas Magic)

I saw. People could probably and easily patch that out. Still bullshit that he lets the mod lay dead for years but only updates it to sell it. Fucking unbelievable

AMA:

are you suprised at all at how many reputable modders became sell outs? or not at all

Chesko and Isoku hurt, but the others who sold out, not too surprising in some cases. Plus, half the paid mods up aren’t even Skyrim modders, they’re DOTA 2 creators!

Requiem Team
Already posted by Draq but worth mentioning again.. Arguably one of the most useful mods..

First of all, these assets would be a major issue to address, as some of you pointed already out. While none of the used assets has any "you must not gain money with it exceptions", this would certainly be a gray area, since this particular option did not exist at the time being, except for Nexus donations. (I should also mention that Xarrian unfortunately lost some of the oldest permissions at some point when cleaning up his private inbox, so I am not even entirely sure about this point.) Also, there are several assets in Requiem which are explicitly granted under a Nexus-exclusive or workshop-excluding permission. An upload or even a payed upload to the Workshop would therefore be a clear breach of the Nexus rules.
Also, we pay back all the kindness we received from other modders by releasing our mod with all source-codes. Except for a few modified vanilla scripts, where Xarrian lost the sources thanks to a Skyrim update, all script sources are included in Requiem and the Reqtificator source code is available on our website. If we wanted to make money with Requiem, we should better hide these files instead of giving those of you that are interested in it the chance to inspect them and learn something from our open source codes.

While I am not a protagonist of the idea to have every program in the world open-source and free, I certainly appreciate it where it feasible. (Sorry, I just love my Intel Fortran Cluster Toolkit too much...

)

Secondly, money is not a primary objective for us. If you scroll up, you might notice the absence of the donate button and if you go one step further and check my profile, you'll see there is none either. There are a few reasons for this (in no particular order):

1. Team spirit - Requiem is developed by a team of members who have been part of the team for different timespans. So tell me, how would I distribute the few bucks we could hypothetically squeeze out of the Nexus/Workshop among us? In my opinion this only has drawbacks: potential envy among team members about different cuts, reluctance to recruit new members when it would make sense, but it would reduce your share...
2. Privacy - Some time ago there was a blog post of mine that contained a (no longer valid) note about donations in the last section. However, a few days later I realized that using the PayPal address would actually reveal my identity, at least to those that click enough buttons on the way to a donation. I am not scared of you, but I belong to those people that put a high value in their privacy, thus I decided to remove all options for donating. (For those who wonder: The donate button that was previously visible brought you to Xarrian's account.)
3. Fun - Modding is, at least for us, a hobby. And hobbies should be fun, not stress! But if you bring money into your hobby, you professionalize it and then it can quickly become stress. I advise to read Dark0ne's previous blog post to all who did not do so, the "my prediction came true" link in his current blog entry.
4. Trolls - We have a wonderful, almost entirely troll-free community here (and at reddit, as I figured out in the last days), which is one of our main reasons to continue this work on and on. Bringing money into the game would certainly attract people that start demanding new features instead of suggesting them or demanding troubleshooting support despite providing no useful information at all, even after being asked to do so. Let's be honest: Do you think that the average Steam user will buy this "now you can support your favourite modders" as Steam announced it and not deduce additional rights from their payment? (after all the option to support would be donations, like on the Nexus)

And even if we would start taking money for Requiem, be it donations (again) or Workshop, it likely still would be a loosing deal. At present (depends on the current $ to € rates), I pay about 30€ from my personal account for Requiem development every month as fees for our Cloud-hosted JIRA and Confluence development tools. (If anybody wonders if it is worth: Without them, I would have abandoned this project long ago! )

A final remark: I very much liked the comments on Steam that each mod using SKSE should give a 50% cut the to the SKSE team or that the SKSE team should provide a "you must not use this for paid workshop mods" in their license.

Creator of Falskaar
Almost didn't make the list.. he's pretty netural / wishy washy..
But at the end of the day he has the right idea for his own content and he does clearly say that donations are a better system.

I think it's time for me to share a few of my personal thoughts on this whole paid mods thing. I've spent the last two days with my face buried in the internet, reading and thinking. There are a lot of rumors and a lot of things we simply don't know.

I share many concerns that have been voiced. Mod theft, ownership, compatibility and QA, dependencies. These all need to be worked out. But, ultimately it is Bethesda's community. It's thanks to them that we're even here. Give their decisions a chance before you dive on them as pantheons of greed and evil. Once things have cooled off a bit and the base of the new community is forming, that is when you should take action. Vote with your feedback. Vote with your wallet. Just remember that change is scary, but scary things aren't always bad.

My gut tells me that donations are a better system for our current community. Paid mods don't fit. But Bethesda seems to want to push us in a new direction. I don't know how this will turn out. If the community will recover from it and rocket into the stars, going where we would have never otherwise gone. Or if we will crumble under these new terms and implode into ourselves. Give Valve some faith. Gabe is very aware of these things (He was on reddit earlier answering questions http://www.reddit.com/r/gam…/comments/33uplp/mods_and_steam/). Many (most?) of Valve's games are made by people who used to be modders, given the opportunity of a lifetime. I'm not saying that they're right, or irrefutable or shouldn't be challenged. I'm just saying they're not the kind of company to stab someone in the face just to take the $3 out of their wallet. In addition, Gabe has said that if this ultimately doesn't work out, they'll remove paid mods, but he seems encouraged to at least try. (http://www.gamespot.com/…/gabe-newell-says-va…/1100-6426893/)

Over the last few days I've arisen as some kind of beacon of light and free modding. I want everyone to understand that I'm a very unique case. I created Falskaar with one goal: To get a job in the industry so that I could create gaming experiences on a far grander scale than I could otherwise. I have that job now. I've gotten all that I personally wanted from this (other than the fun and love of modding, of course, which will last forever). I'm not like many other modders that have a day job and do this in their free time. This is why I won't charge money for my mods, and this why I do not accept donations. I'm incredibly thankful for the support I've received, but if you really want to show your appreciation for Falskaar, look through the credits. Find those people. Contribute to their projects and ambitions. I owe them so much and you couldn't make me happier than by contributing to them and their projects.

Only one thing is certain here. The community is going to change. I cannot say if it will be better or worse. Only that it will be different. Be kind to your fellow modders. A lot of people have taken some rash heat over this. You have every right to let them know that you disagree with their choices or opinions, but please be civil about it.

"So dawn goes down to day.
Nothing gold can stay."

Things are going to change. This incredible chapter in the Bethesda community is coming to a close, and a new one is beginning. Try to suppress your fear and embrace the change. Shape it into something that empowers us, not something that divides us.

There were MANY other modders that didn't make the list because I don't use their mods or they didn't have a large recognizable mod.

This includes:

• Modders who did asset packs that got bundled into larger mods
  
• Mods that would never sell because of their adult material
  
• Combo packs like HothTroopers immersive armor / weapon packs..

Many modders fell into those lists with much more aggressive feelings or replies.. but I didn't care as much because I didn't use their shit or they probably couldn't sell it anyways so it's more biased.

If any of you find a good quote from well known modders / or more Arthmoor butthurt throw it up.. otherwise I will see you all back when Fallout 4 is announced.

 

[Hirato]

Speaking of FNIS/Fore, I ran into this at our favourite modding hotspot.
http://www.loverslab.com/topic/46433-donation-free-fnis-please-support-zaz/

 

[Onholyservicebound]

If any of you find a good quote from well known modders / or more Arthmoor butthurt throw it up.. otherwise I will see you all back when Fallout 4 is announced.

The mod author for Civil War overhaul, Dragon combat overhaul, simple magic overhaul and ice and fire, Apollodown was adamantly opposed to the paid modding shills. He hid his mods in protest when Chesko put his update behind a paywall.

Once it was all over:

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I know it's a reddit thing but the "give gold" link under every message makes this a bit funnier.

 

[waywardOne]

One major point against paid mods was that people would rip off non-sellers' work and sell it as their own. A second point was that many mods had dependencies on other mods. These presume that the troubles would be in one direction, from free to paid.

One thing that I don't think was ever considered: There are only so many ways to accomplish a specific task in any kind of modding (tools available, scripting limitations, etc). What would have prevented the paid mods from being altered just enough in order to claim parallel construction (or concurrent design) and release them as free?

 

[Onholyservicebound]

I know it's a reddit thing but the "give gold" link under every message makes this a bit funnier.

Funny thing is that while Steam hasn't even bothered to pay the modders they abandoned, users are lining up to donate to modders like Apollodown that were adamantly opposed.
Actually, donations raised pretty significantly for almost all modders, though that isn't enough for some, who seem to have this delusional notion that they were going to make their Nexus downloads in cash.

 

[Perkel]

You know what is even more funny to read than "feminists" usually insane pieces ?
Modders drama butthurt.

Because this shows how many of them are just attention whores jacking to their internet fame.

At least in SkyUI case they didn't hide it that they were only going back to SkyUI modding for money.

 

[Immortal]

If any of you find a good quote from well known modders / or more Arthmoor butthurt throw it up.. otherwise I will see you all back when Fallout 4 is announced.

The mod author for Civil War overhaul, Dragon combat overhaul, simple magic overhaul and ice and fire, Apollodown was adamantly opposed to the paid modding shills. He hid his mods in protest when Chesko put his update behind a paywall.

Once it was all over:

Speaking of FNIS/Fore, I ran into this at our favourite modding hotspot.
http://www.loverslab.com/topic/46433-donation-free-fnis-please-support-zaz/

We might be the most jaded / pessimistic community in the world but I felt this thread needed to wrap up in a "Restored Faith In Humanity" style.

Great finds!


MFW: SMIM Modder says it's just a small group of trolls against paid modding

 

[Thane Solus]

so basically, shitty modders wanted to make a quick buck (hipsters...), real modders were against this practice. What a surprise...

 

[Immortal]

so basically, shitty modders wanted to make a quick buck (hipsters...), real modders were against this practice. What a surprise...

Also the shitty modders were trying to paint people that were against it as lecherous trolls who sap content and don't give back.. when it was more like a Civil War (Overhaul?) on the nexus private forums.

 

[Bruticis]

so basically, shitty modders wanted to make a quick buck (hipsters...), real modders were against this practice. What a surprise...

"real modders" oh man, that's a good one. Almost spit coffee all over the place.

 

[Damned Registrations]

One major point against paid mods was that people would rip off non-sellers' work and sell it as their own. A second point was that many mods had dependencies on other mods. These presume that the troubles would be in one direction, from free to paid.

One thing that I don't think was ever considered: There are only so many ways to accomplish a specific task in any kind of modding (tools available, scripting limitations, etc). What would have prevented the paid mods from being altered just enough in order to claim parallel construction (or concurrent design) and release them as free?

Alternately, the opposite could happen; construct some sort of basic infrastructure mod (say, something that allows multiple mods to work together), throw a pricetag on it, and then have any mods that do the same thing taken down for 'infringement'. Or hell, just go all out horseshit and claim that all mods adding equipment to the game are copying you, because adding equipment was your own personal invention.

 

[omega21]

Game companies are the real entitled ones, they should be happy that modders extend replay value of their game. I know people who bought XCom to play Long War mod.

 

[Obama Phone 3]

I knew that monetizing player-made mods would fail, haha. This would ruin the whole point of including dev tools with PC games in general.