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Vapourware Steam is (NO LONGER) charging for mods now lmao

Jigawatt

Arcane
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
3,409
Location
in a desert, walking along in the sand
No, it is, it's completely incomprehensible. First I told you repeatedly that I gave stuff for free too. And that's even besides the point because I'm not on your side, it's not me complaining about modders trying to charge for mods. And it's YOUR double standard, trying to shut me down "because I don't understand Skyrim modding". That one was truly hilarious.

You seem to be mistaking me for gestalt-entity-of-bitches-against-mods. I never accused you of not understanding Skyrim modding, nor do I care whether you do. Of course, this is also the reason why you're seeing hypocrisy around every corner. Some posters admit they just want free crap, some people have concerns about the long term effect of convoluted royalty schemes on the modding scene. Combing them and attack that strawman all you want, but you won't be convincing anyone.

And by the way what you said about sharing and caring and community, that's all just Occupy Wall street hippie nonsense to me. But I'm repeating myself again and that's how these kind of arguments always end up. Going in circles. As I said, you won, enjoy your glorious victory over the unspeakable evil that is money, and be happy. Ciao.

Well it's no surprise you end up repeating yourself - you're not saying anything of any substance. Yep, a bunch of engineers earning 6 figures who enjoy sharing code around in their down time are OWS hippies. Sounds legit. I hope the invisible hand at least gives you a reacharound after it withdraws from your ass.
 
Unwanted

Goat Vomit

Andhaira
Andhaira
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
391
Sadly, it was quashed by stupidity, greed and entitlement of spoiled brats.
:lol:
Those are called customers and every good capitalist knows that the customer is always right. This is the free market at work you moron. I also don't understand why you have such an hard time to grasp that consumers will look out for their own interests, in this case it meant trying to keep mods noncommercial. Sure, companies could legally sell you patches and mod tools too but that doesn't mean you should turn around, spread your buttcheeks and take it with a smile on your face, even if I bet you could make a nice argument about how entitled people are to want them for free are and that mod tools and patches costs money, time and effort to make.
 

praetor

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
3,069
Location
Vhoorl
am i the only one who finds it hilarious how (both of) their explanations touched upon how "this is not a money grabbing scheme to make some profit with 0 work whatsoever, seriously, we're making less than 1% of our daily revenue with this shit"... well, if money wasn't a factor and you're making peanuts, why take a cut at all, let alone 75% fucking percent of it! lulz. totally not to make money...
Am I only the one that finds it hilarious how people are shocked, appalled and unhinged that companies want to try to make lots and lots of money?

am i the only one who isn't shocked Bruticis can't even read (or write, for that matter)?
 

Immortal

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
5,062
Location
Safe Space - Don't Bulli
Creator of the UNP Skimpy Mods

Also He Runs a Tutorial Site on How to Mod Skyrim (With a 5 Dollar Per Month Membership Fee)

Nightasy said:
Well, I didn't see a problem with paid mod content. I saw it not one bit different from a site such as Turbosquid or Daz3d. Not one bit different from any site where you buy 3d models. It's a trade, it's also a hobby and it's also a way to make a living. What I did see though that has made me decide to back off from modding for awhile, possibly forever was something much more appalling. I saw a bunch of posts and mods spring up that suggested mod authors didn't work hard on mods.

Titles such as "Give me Money for No Reason" and "Pay me for doing nothing" really caught me off guard. Developing a mod, 3d model, scripting, setting up esp files is an exceptionally tedious task. There is an abundant amount of work that is required to make mods. There is an abundant amount of learning that is required to make mods, from learning to use the available tools right down to understanding what a UV map is. I found many posts and those aforementioned mods quite belittling to modders and I'm sorry to say but that is what disgusted me. Not the pay system but the lack of appreciation being shown.

There was an abundant amount of work that went into developing the Creation Kit as well as setting up Skyrim so that it could be modded. There was an abundant amount of work that went into setting up a pay system on steam, setting up a workshop to support it. So much work went into the entire setup of Skyrim as well as the Creation Kit as well as the workshop as well as the mods that are developed for the game and it was all so very much under appreciated.

The paid mods would not have had any negative impact on the free modding community. There would have always been free mods. Mod authors would have had an additional option to also release paid mods but because of the many (mostly non-mod authors) thinking mod authors don't work hard, that Bethesda didn't work hard, that Steam didn't work hard, now we don't have that option. Mod author's have given so much for free and have never asked for anything in return. The one time we had a bone thrown our way and due to a lack of appreciation it was taken from us.

I'm sorry, but I've decided to pull down all of my mods while I think on this experience. I'm not quite decided as to how I feel about all that has happened. I suppose I just need some time to think and until I've come to a conclusion I won't feel comfortable providing support for my mods.

Best Regards.

I love how he pretends to be confused / unbiased but literally runs a paid subscription service on how to mod Skyrim.. Not that there is anything wrong about doing that, just don't pussy foot around like you are unbiased. You couldn't wait to sell your crap on Steam Workshop.

:butthurt:
 

Bruticis

Guest
am i the only one who finds it hilarious how (both of) their explanations touched upon how "this is not a money grabbing scheme to make some profit with 0 work whatsoever, seriously, we're making less than 1% of our daily revenue with this shit"... well, if money wasn't a factor and you're making peanuts, why take a cut at all, let alone 75% fucking percent of it! lulz. totally not to make money...
Am I only the one that finds it hilarious how people are shocked, appalled and unhinged that companies want to try to make lots and lots of money?

am i the only one who isn't shocked Bruticis can't even read (or write, for that matter)?
Edgy factor of 14. Tryhard award of the week winner is you.
 

Immortal

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
5,062
Location
Safe Space - Don't Bulli
am i the only one who finds it hilarious how (both of) their explanations touched upon how "this is not a money grabbing scheme to make some profit with 0 work whatsoever, seriously, we're making less than 1% of our daily revenue with this shit"... well, if money wasn't a factor and you're making peanuts, why take a cut at all, let alone 75% fucking percent of it! lulz. totally not to make money...
Am I only the one that finds it hilarious how people are shocked, appalled and unhinged that companies want to try to make lots and lots of money?

am i the only one who isn't shocked Bruticis can't even read (or write, for that matter)?
Edgy factor of 14. Tryhard award of the week winner is you.

projection.jpg
 

Immortal

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
5,062
Location
Safe Space - Don't Bulli
Post From 2013:
Korodic said:
I personally was tired of seeing other "arena" mod coming fourth receiving so much positive attention for what I thought was awful. I was told "so what, you think you can do better?"

Actually yes, I can... and did. Pulling chains is so primitive. Take a step into the shoes of a real gladiator and engage in completely dynamic fights involving both classic and new match types.

+New Quests
+Fully voice acted
+New player home
+As dynamic as possible! (crowds, opponents, everything I could!)

So what are you waiting for? Give it a try!
aa_biggrin.gif


See videos and get more information on the mod page: http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/33385

Look how upset he is.. Forced to work in the mod sweat shop for no pay. Look how defeated and unhappy he was. His motivation was never to shit on other modders and show how much better he was.. Oh no..

He was forced to work against his will for no money.


Today:
Korodic said:
I've hidden all of my mods for the time being. I won't be coming back to the nexus for a long time (if ever) or until I feel otherwise. Too many people (who have never even made a single mod) feel entitled to the mods that we mod authors make.

It's ridiculous. I don't owe any of you anything, especially when all of the stuff I've provided up until this point is completely free. We should be supported & celebrated. Instead we were called greedy and told to "go get a real job."

People should have fought to get us a better price split instead of fighting the idea of paid mods themselves.

Whatever, guess I will go invest my time elsewhere. Any work I make from now on will be private.

Bye I guess.

-nlm (-.-) mln-

:butthurt:

A few things about Korodic..

Joined Nexus: 11 February 2007
Endorsements given: 55

In The Last Few Days:
Korodic added Chesko as a friend 6:23, 29 Apr 2015
Korodic added Marstonn as a friend 1:10, 29 Apr 2015
Korodic added Arthmoor as a friend 5:28, 28 Apr 2015

The Butt hurt is bringing modders together!

:happytrollboy:
 
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Alex

Arcane
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
8,750
Location
São Paulo - Brasil
I frankly don't know what to think about the whole issue. On a principle, I recognize mod makers should be able to somehow sell their creations. After all, it is a fruit of their labor, and it should be up to them if they are to be sold or not. On the other hand, I've seen various posts explaining how the mod community is "confusing", and allowing paid mods could cause grave damages to the ecosystem. I don't really know much about it specifically. I had some contact with the BG modding community and the community built around Exult (a remade Ultima 7 engine). And I never really participated in those communities either. So if anyone thinks I am wrong, please feel free to correct me. But I can see three main difficulties in making mods paid. First, and most genuine, is that some mods aren't really commercial at all, in that they aren't really useful on their own. But they can be extremely helpful to those making mods. People have posted examples of this in this thread. So, the issue here is that a "mod" can have very differing granularity and uses. A mod pack, a total conversion and a couple of useful scripts are very different beasts, and selling all three in the same store in the same way can make modding much less appealing to customers.

Second, it seems that mod communities need at least some head start with free stuff. There is a very different mentality between modders who are all part of the same community and are all working together to make something cool or interesting, and rivals who are trying to each sell the best mod to a public with a limited amount of money. I am not trying to say "commercialism is bad". But the thing about modders is that it isn't their day job, at least usually. If most competent modders take a competitive approach, at least from the get go, I think we will end up with much more lackluster products, because even the best mods can't do everything by themselves. And third, well, I don't want to play on a stereotype, but I've seen enough fights around the net to see that modding does attract its share of... er... touchy people. Now, the issue is, if modding is suddenly something that has money mixed in it, we could end up with internet drama exploding into judicial drama. And this could end up dragging down a whole lot of mods.

Still, I do think the idea of allowing modders to sell their creations is good! I just think maybe we should try to come up with some solutions to these problems, if they really are pertinent.
 

Khorne

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
238

This shirt only has one side.
If you wear it when you go to bank to pay your debts with nothing, you will owe the bank even more.
But if the bank manager wears it when you come to collect your paycheck, it means there is no paycheck to collect.
This is because the bank is noble and all of us are peasants.
 

Bruticis

Guest

This shirt only has one side.
If you wear it when you go to bank to pay your debts with nothing, you will owe the bank even more.
But if the bank manager wears it when you come to collect your paycheck, it means there is no paycheck to collect.
This is because the bank is noble and all of us are peasants.
Huh? Why am I going to a bank to pay my debts? Why am I collecting my paycheck from a bank manager? Can someone translate butthurt 3rd world gibberish into fucking American, please?
 

Khorne

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
238
Huh? Why am I going to a bank to pay my debts? Why am I collecting my paycheck from a bank manager? Can someone translate butthurt 3rd world gibberish into fucking American, please?
In other words; bank deserves money for doing nothing, while peasants work for free.
Hence, your shirt only has one side and the "mod market" exploits the authors via TOS.
 

mastroego

Arcane
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
10,250
Location
Italy
Creator of the UNP Skimpy Mods

Also He Runs a Tutorial Site on How to Mod Skyrim (With a 5 Dollar Per Month Membership Fee)

Nightasy said:

I love how he pretends to be confused / unbiased but literally runs a paid subscription service on how to mod Skyrim.. Not that there is anything wrong about doing that, just don't pussy foot around like you are unbiased. You couldn't wait to sell your crap on Steam Workshop.
lol :lol:
and now he exacts terrible vengeance by taking down his Chainmail Bikini Mods (a mature and classy behavior worthy of any respectable modder)!
The world as we know it is finished!
 

Bruticis

Guest
Huh? Why am I going to a bank to pay my debts? Why am I collecting my paycheck from a bank manager? Can someone translate butthurt 3rd world gibberish into fucking American, please?
In other words; bank deserves money for doing nothing, while peasants work for free.
Hence, your shirt only has one side and the "mod market" exploits the authors via TOS.
Are you drunk or just naturally stupid?
 

mastroego

Arcane
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
10,250
Location
Italy
Post From 2013:

Today:
Korodic said:
I've hidden all of my mods for the time being.
....
It's ridiculous. I don't owe any of you anything, especially when all of the stuff I've provided up until this point is completely free. We should be supported & celebrated. Instead we were called greedy and told to "go get a real job."

That's actually pretty solid advice.
He should be the one thanking the community for pushing him into (late) adulthood.
 
Joined
Jun 20, 2014
Messages
906
Location
Malaysia
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Still, I do think the idea of allowing modders to sell their creations is good! I just think maybe we should try to come up with some solutions to these problems, if they really are pertinent.

I guess that you are a pretty busy person and probably just glance through the entire thread since you miss quite a lot of important points in this regard that already have been stated in various forms by a lot of people, me included.
However, since you are quite polite and I assume, not baiting, let me reiterate several key points.

First off, modders who want monetary remuneration already have some ways to get there prior to the Steam workshop fiasco. The most popular is the Paypal donation link that you can put the link in either the mod page or your own account page in any one of the major modding sites such as Nexus, TotalWar forums, Moddb or Loverslab. The second most popular one is a setting up a Patreon where people can donate to the modders for continuing to support and improve their mods. The paypal method have already existed for more that a decade already while the patreon method have in these recent years gained popularity as a lot of creative people on the internet use them such as comic artists.

Understanding that donating 100% to the modder bypass various legal issues as making money with a mod is illegal and risk Cease and Desist lawsuit by the companies involved. To iterate, donating to someone involved in a mod is ok, donating to and for a mod is illegal.

Now, why do you and many people never see a donate link before despite some modders using them? The answer is obvious if you think about it for a moment, don't you?
It is because the best mods, which most people are only interested in, are made by a collaboration of a lot of passionate people who love the game and want to make it better in various ways. Most of them, myself included, aren't interested in monetary remuneration when we are modding.
The reward itself is playing through the game with the mod and seeing things worked as intended, for me. For others, the comments praising everyone involved feels great.
Would I get butthurt if someone involved in the mod setup a Patreon if he/she believe she had contributed a lot to the community and will continue to do so?
No, in fact, you will find most such Patreon sponsors to be the other modders themselves, who know how much work is required.

So, why is Steam Workshop fiasco an issue?
The simplest explanation is that it allow mods to be sold as third party DLC for the publishers, with a lot for issues including publishers overruling modders control over the pricing and bundling, publishers will get lazier with quality control for their game, people selling a reskin version of a free mod and may DMCA, with the publisher assistance, the original version for fear of lost of profit if people figure out there is a free version available and such.
For more information about this fiasco, I recommend you start reading from page 1 of this thread carefully, as a lot of modders and others have expound on the topic pretty clearly already and like me, have zero interest of repeating the same points over and over again for people who believe that they are smarter and know more about the topic than other people yet not interested in finding out about the topic before giving their opinion.
 
Last edited:

evdk

comrade troglodyte :M
Patron
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Messages
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Corona regni Bohemiae
Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Are you drunk or just naturally stupid?
Do you wear this shirt when going to to store and point at it when they ask for your credit card?
Halp, how do analogies work.

You are aware that while you certainly can't be forced to pay them (you don't owe them anything) they can't be forced to sell to you (they don't owe you anything) either?

Please, mommy, what is a contract?
 

Khorne

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
238
You are aware that while you certainly can't be forced to pay them (you don't owe them anything) they can't be forced to sell to you (they don't owe you anything) either?

The shirt implies that I can just walk into store, take what I want, and argue that nobody owes the store anything.
This is the side that doesn't work, because they can, and will force me to pay, one way or another.

The side that does work, on the other hand, is the one where a company can take what they want and owe nothing.
Most recent example is this mod market thing right here.
The plan to take authors' work that was already done, and profit on it through various loopholes.
Even if the original author doesn't accept TOS - there are always thieves looking to grab that coin they offer.
Thieves would've looted and pillaged the authors, rebranded their work and as soon as they uploaded, valve would own the code.
Where does this leave original author? What is the code is licenced and the thief just obfuscated it?
Valve wouldn't care, because someone accepted the TOS. This is why this shirt only fits certain people, but not everyone.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
14,978
Just one more step on the path to loot the public domain. In before EA buys the rights to all open source code.

The one thing I wanted to chip in on regarding the early discussion of paid mods giving a cut to bethesda- it depends entirely on the mod in question. If I'm adding in original models of armour, Bethesda doesn't deserve fuck all. If, on the other hand, I took the glass armour and palette swapped it a few times, they clearly deserve a cut (probably a large cut in that case). It depends on how derivative the work is of existing assets. Of course, this is a subjective judgement, and even if it could be made quickly and accurately, all it would result in is all paid mods using original content. Nobody is going to go to the trouble of making palette swapped equipment and then selling it so they can give away most of the cash when they could have taken 10 more minutes to tweak the model so it's 'their design'.
 

evdk

comrade troglodyte :M
Patron
Joined
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Messages
11,292
Location
Corona regni Bohemiae
Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
You are aware that while you certainly can't be forced to pay them (you don't owe them anything) they can't be forced to sell to you (they don't owe you anything) either?

The shirt implies that I can just walk into store, take what I want, and argue that nobody owes the store anything.
This is the side that doesn't work, because they can, and will force me to pay, one way or another.
They won't force you to pay. If you refuse they will just throw you out without giving you anything. Are you typing your responses from onboard the shortbus, or what?
 

Khorne

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
238
They won't force you to pay. If you refuse they will just throw you out without giving you anything. Are you typing your responses from onboard the shortbus, or what?
Depends on the store. What if they sell cars and I just took some wheels and pointed at the shirt while trying to leave in a hurry?
Normally, they would hold me inside until the cops show up, though it's quite possible they would've taken me outside camera focus for a beating.
But that's besides the point, if I were Khorne inc. rather than a simple peasant, someone would take the wheels out for me, and nobody would ever know.
 

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