Vapourware Steam is (NO LONGER) charging for mods now lmao

[Jigawatt]

This whole thread is just reminding me of


(start at 1:58)

Is it so fucking hard for Valve shills to understand that I get enough 'free market' in my day when I go to work, pay my bills, buy my groceries - the last thing I want when I'm fucking around with a game in my downtime is another dose of that shit

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

It'll be very interesting to see some of the legal clusterfucks which come out of this. As others have said, it's easy for Valve to come up with vague "opinions" about how it is fine for a paid mod to build on/include other mods, the reality is surely a lot more complex.

What if I make a small free mod using tools which are not licensed for commercial applications. Then someone takes my mod and includes it their bigger, paid-for mod in the workshop. I'm no legal expert but I imagine that trying to work out who is liable for what, in various different legal systems around the world, with a modding scene that has often relied on casual, informal arrangements rather than proper contracts... seems like it may actually discourage people from releasing free mods if they risk ending up in some sort of shitstorm.

 

[FuriousGamer87]

It'll be very interesting to see some of the legal clusterfucks which come out of this. As others have said, it's easy for Valve to come up with vague "opinions" about how it is fine for a paid mod to build on/include other mods, the reality is surely a lot more complex.

What if I make a small free mod using tools which are not licensed for commercial applications. Then someone takes my mod and includes it their bigger, paid-for mod in the workshop. I'm no legal expert but I imagine that trying to work out who is liable for what, in various different legal systems around the world, with a modding scene that has often relied on casual, informal arrangements rather than proper contracts... seems like it may actually discourage people from releasing free mods if they risk ending up in some sort of shitstorm.

The drama would be hilarious but neither Valve nor the publishers would be affected since it's they put all the legal responsibility on the person who upload the mod with the existing EULA.
It's the same with Apple with their app store, what with their countless app clones.
If anyone think that I am siding with them on this, you are retarded beyond salvation.
I am just stating the facts as I see them right now.
Making up deluded revenge fantasies based on bullshit you wished that are true is fun but helps nobody in the long run.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Hocking air, sunlight, or I guess Legos as someone mentioned earlier, aren't really the same as creating something and then trying to sell it. You've gone way too far extreme to set an example here.

Could be, but most people won't listen until they're hit on the head by the worst case scenario.

Modders would have more than likely sold their products if they could have, but the fact is it just wasn't a possibility until recently, the same way the indie games market exploding wasn't a possibility until recently.

It's been possible for the indie games market to "explode" ever since it first came to be (1979 to my knowledge). It's just prior to 2007 it took real talent, hard work and a shitload of luck to get anywhere in the game business. It was because of the work of developers prior to 2007, the few skilled and lucky ones that could get anywhere in the market, how they built up and helped shape the market and created "tools" such as Steam to help remove all the old barriers that they themselves faced back in the day, that we got the deluge of no-talent, no-brained, pink-haired, narcissistic hipster douches that now stand around exclaiming that they created the whole indie scene. Fuck everyone else that came before them.

In the early 1980s one out of every ten "indie developers" could get their game released. Today it's one out of every thousand, and we're STILL being flooded by shovelware. But I digress.

Mods are a similar thing, they could have been and HAVE been sold since the early days. Unofficial mods and levels for Doom, Quake and Duke Nukem scooped up, packaged into a retail box and shipped off to the stores, that was a thing. It was due to generous developers that the mod scene was allowed to thrive in the first place, but from what I can tell it was always done with the intent of monetizing off the best of the modder's works. People seemed fine with that, the best mods became commercial products. The new status quo is that ALL MODS become commerical products, and people have a problem with that.

The biggest problem I have with this change is the precedent it sets. If all mods are to cost money, what's to stop them from having patches and compatibility fixes cost money? How much further can they push this? That's why I brought up the sun and air thing - people aren't looking far enough ahead to see how ugly this can get.

People HAVE to draw a line in the sand, otherwise we'll all end up as unwilling employees of the Crimson Corporation. The mod thing is a small battle, yes, but it's a battle nonetheless.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

The drama would be hilarious but neither Valve nor the publishers would be affected since it's they put all the legal responsibility on the person who upload the mod with the existing EULA.
If anyone think that I am siding with them on this, you are retarded beyond salvation.
I am just stating the facts as I see them right now.
Making up deluded revenge fantasies based on bullshit you wished that are true is fun but helps nobody in the long run.

Sure, but I'm not saying Valve or the publishers would be affected, I'm talking about groups of modders that build on each others work, and I wouldn't call what I wrote a "deluded revenge fantasy". I'm just speculating on how getting involved in one of these clusterfucks could actually put people off releasing free mods.

 

[Redlands]

This whole thread is just reminding me of


(start at 1:58)

Is it so fucking hard for Valve shills to understand that I get enough 'free market' in my day when I go to work, pay my bills, buy my groceries - the last thing I want when I'm fucking around with a game in my downtime is another dose of that shit

Apparently there's a drought in California (i.e. they're going to run out of water next year), but Nestle's still getting their cut of the aquifers.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Is it so fucking hard for Valve shills to understand that I get enough 'free market' in my day when I go to work, pay my bills, buy my groceries - the last thing I want when I'm fucking around with a game in my downtime is another dose of that shit

Well, then vote for some form of a massive welfare state that would allow people to not have to devote time to working, studying, etc. to live. Then it would make sense that creators would give their work for free to the sharing and caring society. Right now it doesn't make sense.

 

[sser]

Hocking air, sunlight, or I guess Legos as someone mentioned earlier, aren't really the same as creating something and then trying to sell it. You've gone way too far extreme to set an example here.

Could be, but most people won't listen until they're hit on the head by the worst case scenario.

The worst case scenario already exists: there are finite resources on this planet. For what it's worth, I was one of those people shouting from the mountaintops that DLC would be abused. I've also stated that Kickstarter is a conartist's wet dream. I'm very aware of the dogged nature Valve's approach will more than likely take.

It's been possible for the indie games market to "explode" ever since it first came to be (1979 to my knowledge). It's just prior to 2007 it took real talent, hard work and a shitload of luck to get anywhere in the game business. It was because of the work of developers prior to 2007, the few skilled and lucky ones that could get anywhere in the market, how they built up and helped shape the market and created "tools" such as Steam to help remove all the old barriers that they themselves faced back in the day, that we got the deluge of no-talent, no-brained, pink-haired, narcissistic hipster douches that now stand around exclaiming that they created the whole indie scene. Fuck everyone else that came before them.

In the early 1980s one out of every ten "indie developers" could get their game released. Today it's one out of every thousand, and we're STILL being flooded by shovelware. But I digress.

Mods are a similar thing, they could have been and HAVE been sold since the early days. Unofficial mods and levels for Doom, Quake and Duke Nukem scooped up, packaged into a retail box and shipped off to the stores, that was a thing. It was due to generous developers that the mod scene was allowed to thrive in the first place, but from what I can tell it was always done with the intent of monetizing off the best of the modder's works. People seemed fine with that, the best mods became commercial products. The new status quo is that ALL MODS become commerical products, and people have a problem with that.

The biggest problem I have with this change is the precedent it sets. If all mods are to cost money, what's to stop them from having patches and compatibility fixes cost money? How much further can they push this? That's why I brought up the sun and air thing - people aren't looking far enough ahead to see how ugly this can get.

People HAVE to draw a line in the sand, otherwise we'll all end up as unwilling employees of the Crimson Corporation. The mod thing is a small battle, yes, but it's a battle nonetheless.

No, you're right. This is why I'm pretty wary of the idea when it comes to these smaller things. My grand idealistic thought is that it will help generate, and sustain, bigger mods in line with the FFH's and Killing Floor's. As I've said, this is most likely my silver lining approach. Maybe I'm just too cynical, but what Valve has done certainly feels like an inevitability one way or another. So I gravitate to what good may come of it - and certainly there could be some good. We don't know one way or another. But I get the feeling that, even if Valve retracts this (which seems unlikely), the idea itself is not going to go away. IMO, this is also what things like Patreon should be used for. But Valve, EA, Bethesda, et al can't draw from Patreon, so here we are.

 

[Levenmouth]

Sure, but I'm not saying Valve or the publishers would be affected, I'm talking about groups of modders that build on each others work, and I wouldn't call what I wrote a "deluded revenge fantasy". I'm just speculating on how getting involved in one of these clusterfucks could actually put people off releasing free mods.

If you use licensed material in accordance with the license, you are not doing anything wrong. If someone then re-uses your work—which is still encumbered with the aforementioned licenses—and disregards the said licenses, they may become legally liable. This is neither deluded nor is it new. Needless to say, Valve is pretty safe, because they are just the distributor.

 

[Destroid]

I have no issue with mods turned commercial products, under a contractual arrangement with the publisher and with all the same expectations you get from any other official expansion or DLC. This is very different from throwing the doors open on the workshop and letting anyone put a price tag on their work.

 

[FuriousGamer87]

The drama would be hilarious but neither Valve nor the publishers would be affected since it's they put all the legal responsibility on the person who upload the mod with the existing EULA.
If anyone think that I am siding with them on this, you are retarded beyond salvation.
I am just stating the facts as I see them right now.
Making up deluded revenge fantasies based on bullshit you wished that are true is fun but helps nobody in the long run.

Sure, but I'm not saying Valve or the publishers would be affected, I'm talking about groups of modders that build on each others work, and I wouldn't call what I wrote a "deluded revenge fantasy". I'm just speculating on how getting involved in one of these clusterfucks could actually put people off releasing free mods.

True.
Frankly speaking, PC modding and its wonderful, hilarious and dramatic community as we know it a week ago is dead.
Ironically killed by the man hailed as the savior of PC gaming.

I totally can't wait to find discussions on nexus on how the best to monetize one mods with the best ratio of $$$ per download and how to manipulate and paid for SEO so their mod come up first in any google search.
Also which games to made mods of to have the best $$$ for your time and where the best places to put ones ads on the free version so the players will accidentally clicked on the ads.
Just like in mobile games developer forum these days.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I have no issue with mods turned commercial products, under a contractual arrangement with the publisher and with all the same expectations you get from any other official expansion or DLC. This is very different from throwing the doors open on the workshop and letting anyone put a price tag on their work.

Did you catch the modding EULA that "mysteriously" vanished shortly after this started? (There's a link in this thread somewhere.)

It stated that Valve and Bethesda reserved the right to adjust the price on your mod if they didn't approve of your price tag.

That's pretty much announcing the intention of ALL mods being monetized, don't you think?

Letting people think that they have any say in things is a tried and tested method.

 

[Stokowski]

CC: Redlands

Im gonna charging plants for my carbon dioxide output it a air mod for plants to enjoy photosynthesis more.

Just as long as you don't water them.

Collecting Rainwater Still Illegal in Much of Colorado
by Matt Corrion
Two new legislative bills were passed in Colorado this summer that seem to be causing some confusion regarding water rights. Senate Bill 09-080 and House Bill 09-1129 allow for the collection of rainwater- but only in very limited circumstances.

Many businesses and homeowners are looking for ways to be more sustainable, to save water, and to conserve resources to help their bottom line. I have been surprised to find that many people are not aware that collecting rainwater- even in a simple “rain barrel” system from your roof for use in watering a garden, is illegal in Colorado.

From: http://www.lot-lines.com/collecting-rainwater-still-illegal-in-much-of-colorado

 

[JarlFrank]

GOG isn't much better, you silly potato chips who keep mentioning them as some throned superior. Where as Steam is selling drm goods and mods for a game only retards and slave fetisher rk47 plays - GOG is peddling decades old abandonware at $6-10 a pop which most of us got off HOTU, Underground-Gamer and Abandonia years ago for free.

Yeah but it's DRM-free, you actually own the game, and it's way easier to pirate because no crack required

 

[Don Peste]

Doug Lombardi says everything is OK: https://twitter.com/DougLombardi/status/25264264591708160

 

[JarlFrank]

Few good, large mods are available for free for long.

DayZ, Killing Floor, The Stanley Parable, Natural Selection to name some of the newer ones. And I do see the same reaction every time: Hey what the fuck, modders, you want us to pay for something that was already free? (Meanwhile, the receipts for Arma, Unreal 2k4, Quake II, etc. swirl into the wind.)

And yet, they started out as free and became commercial products only after already reaching a large enough level of popularity. And they're being made into standalone games rather than just an addition to an existing game.

There's a huge difference between having a great mod that is turned into a standalone commercial game due to its popularity and starting to make a mod with the goal of earning money in the first place.

 

[Xathrodox86]

Fuck Gabe Nevell and his fucking Steam abomination. I swear to God, the fucking Uplay and Origin aren't as much dipped in shit and spunk as this piece of ass. The idea of mods was that they were always free to play, an alternative to official expansions and DLC's. Well it seems that some people become more cuntish with each passing year.

 

[Gerrard]

Things people will pay for:
[ X ] unfinished 'early access'
[ X ] shitty mario figurines
[ X ] random digital hats
[ ] lovingly crafted mods

A pirate defending paid mods on a torrent site...

Care to explain how is he wrong though?

Oh wait, he's not.

Spoiler

Shamelessly nicked from /v/'s sticky.

>horse cocks
>sex mods
Yep.

 

[WhiteGuts]

“At Valve, we often sit around and think of things that were originally free and then try to figure out a way to generate revenue from it,” explained Steam developer Dan Berger, “I’d say we are the masters of making money from the gaming industry without actually making any games.”

Do they even listen to themselves anymore ?

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Fuck Gabe Nevell and his fucking Steam abomination. I swear to God, the fucking Uplay and Origin aren't as much dipped in shit and spunk as this piece of ass. The idea of mods was that they were always free to play, an alternative to official expansions and DLC's. Well it seems that some people become more cuntish with each passing year.

The custom of mods being free has nothing to do with caring for parasites and everything to do with developers/publishers forbidding them to sell their work.

 

[JarlFrank]

By all the gods and by the goddamn fucking common sense, what is it with all these people, even here, who claim that all modders will probably like this change because it gets them money for their work?

As skacky already mentioned in this thread, he works as a level designer, and he also mods. And he likes modding because it's fundamentally different from working for money. You have no pressure, you can make your own deadlines, you're not responsible to anyone, it's just you doing your hobby and then releasing the product of your hobby to the public. And, heck, there have been people who made great mods and then got hired by a developer. Some guy who made a big Skyrim content mod was hired by Bethesda. Some Thief fan mission makers were hired by other companies due to their FMs, I know that one of them was hired by Arkane and worked on Dishonored.
Some people just mod for fun, or to make the game better so they can enjoy it themselves. I know about one woman who studies art and makes Tomb Raider levels for fun because she enjoys level design, as it's some kind of art, and then uploads them so people can have fun with her creations. The guys behind projects improving old strategy games, like the Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri AI improvement mod, or the Emperor of the Fading Suns mods that are around, make them to improve the game for their own enjoyment.

They're usually community works made by the community, for the community. Or just for your own enjoyment because modding is your hobby and you like doing it and you might as well share it with others. Maybe they will take the assets you created and include them in their own mods, and that would be pretty nice to see, how your work is used as inspiration or as a base for other works that you might enjoy playing.

It's kinda like joining a club, or like sharing pictures of your hobbywork online. Some people like to do woodworking as a hobby, and then make pics of their work and share them. Some people like to go fishing or hunting or collecting mushrooms and then invite their friends over to eat what they caught. All of these are things that are also done commercially: you can buy wooden figurines or furniture in the store, you can buy fish and meat in the store, the people who produce that stuff get paid for it and it's their job to produce these things. But there are also people out there who do it as a hobby for fun and don't want to be paid for it, they just enjoy it and share it with their friends or with a community (like a club or something, some local community that shares your hobby and meets occasionally to discuss it or do it together).

This is what modding is. It's a hobby, it's something people do for fun, or to make something for their own enjoyment (that they then share with the community), or maybe it's even something people to so they have something to add to their portfolio, but it's still something they make for free in order to show off their talent, and that they hope might get them a paid job - not something they set out to do with the goal of selling it in the first place. Huge fucking difference.

It should be obvious to everyone with half a brain how this move is going to damage the concept of modding as we knew it.

 

[GrainWetski]

Can we just stop calling what they sell on the workshop mods? When you're directly paying Bethesda, it's no different than all the shit DLC.

Things people will pay for:
[ X ] unfinished 'early access'
[ X ] shitty mario figurines
[ X ] random digital hats
[ ] lovingly crafted mods

A pirate defending paid mods on a torrent site...

Care to explain how is he wrong though?

Oh wait, he's not.

The same people buying the 3 listed things there are currently buying mods on Steam, so he doesn't have much of a point.

 

[Executr]

You can add this to the mess Valve and Bethesda created:
http://www.reddit.com/r/modpiracy/comments/33vn5g/if_you_purchased_a_mod_opt_for_a_refund_and_keep/

Pay for the mod, save the files and then ask and get the refund.

 

[Jick Magger]

It doesn't help that Steam Workshop is a vastly inferior modding interface when compared to Nexus Mod Manager. Updates for all mods you subscribe to are downloaded automatically once detected and are mandatory; it can't detect conflicts with other mods, and won't tell you when it's overwriting other content; and you have to go through an unnecessarily tedious process of unsubscribing from the mod to just get it uninstalled from your game. It's why you rarely see anything more complex than armor packs or new companions in the Skyrim workshop; anything bigger'd run the risk of overwriting other shit and making the game unplayable.

 

[Infinitron]

You can add this to the mess Valve and Bethesda created:
http://www.reddit.com/r/modpiracy/comments/33vn5g/if_you_purchased_a_mod_opt_for_a_refund_and_keep/

Pay for the mod, save the files and then ask and get the refund.

Well, duh. The mod files aren't DRMed. You can do the same thing with GOG games if you can convince them to give you a refund.

I suggest people not complain about this too much.