Starpoint Gemini.

[Shannow]

Dungeon Master, Bloodwych, Bard's Tale, Ultimas, Eye of the Beholder, Abandoned Places, Cadaver, Stonekeep, The Elder Scrolls, Hillsfar, et cetera et cetera and in all seriousness you should know better.

Ah, that's ok then.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Lets not touch the more important concepts of gameplay regarding the z axis in such hit classics as Homeworld and its (the z axis) failure to matter but concentrate on the semantics.

What the fuck are you on? Z-axis not mattering in Homeworld? Oh boy, all those ambushes (both against me and AI) from wildly different Z-axis were my imagination then, I guess.

If you are going to have a space game in 3D, then the vessels should be able to move in Z-axis as well.

Oh to get a proper space sim with real physics and stuff - like Falcon 4.0 but IN SPACE! :D

 

[DraQ]

Oh to get a proper space sim with real physics and stuff - like Falcon 4.0 but IN SPACE! :D

 

[Lord Rocket]

What

Dude you're not seriously arguing that the developers compromised their own vision of the game by making it 2d? The evidence would suggest that they didn't, simply because they made the game on a 2d plane - as you say, despite the fact they didn't have to.

The evidence suggest they did, either on purpose or by being complete idiots. They wanted to make a space game using 3D engine. Space is 3D, their engine is 3D their game is 2D.
FAIL.

Can you stop being so fucktarded please? The evidence suggests that they wanted to use a 3d engine in order to make a 2d-style game. So - they did.

Again, what they did was compromise your vision of the game. Nothing you've said implies anything other than that. I doubt anything you will say implies anything other than that.

Dungeon Master, Bloodwych, Bard's Tale, Ultimas, Eye of the Beholder, Abandoned Places, Cadaver, Stonekeep, The Elder Scrolls, Hillsfar, et cetera et cetera and in all seriousness you should know better.

Ah, that's ok then.

What I like about your 'fixed' list is that two of the games aren't really RPGs (Cadaver and Hillsfar) one of them is largely wrong (Ultimas - six + two spinoffs are TB, vs. three + the MMO, presumably, as RT), one of them is wrong (Bard's Tale 1 at least is TB blob) and the rest are newer games than the ones in the original list.

Lord Rockety, bro, update LP.

Will do.

 

[Trash]

You people actually get this fucker installed? The exe is 1.51 gb and draws so many resources it simply locks up my entire system.

 

[DraQ]

See? Game is so derp it makes Trash's system struggle.

 

[commie]

Hegemonia was my guilty pleasure for a while - simplistic, wildly inconsistent time and space scales, and so on, but man, was it pretty.


I still feel somewhat dirty.

Heh, it looked great, still does...which says a lot about graphics progress in 8 years. Game was solid too, simple but fun. No need for shame DraQ!

 

[Raghar]

You people actually get this fucker installed? The exe is 1.51 gb and draws so many resources it simply locks up my entire system.

You might like to disable antivirus. I never had problems with 2GB long self extracting exe installers.

You might also like to uninstall WGA.

 

[DraQ]

Hegemonia was my guilty pleasure for a while - simplistic, wildly inconsistent time and space scales, and so on, but man, was it pretty.


I still feel somewhat dirty.

Heh, it looked great, still does...which says a lot about graphics progress in 8 years. Game was solid too, simple but fun. No need for shame DraQ!

Was it not for the fact I was fapping to planets and exploshuns, I wouldn't even look at this game.

It had like four different combat units (but with four kinds of loadouts and ability to go for turrets or heavy stuff in the medium sized vessels). Tactics was almost nonexistant, there were trace amounts of strategy. Plus very simplistic spies, colonization and resourcing. Plus the characters were unaffected by stretches of time it took populations to go from 1M to max planet capacity, this game had just no sense of scale in terms of both, space and time.

 

[Trash]

Finally got it working. If you have the same problem do shut down realtime protection in Microsoft Security Essentials. You can do so in the settings tab. Installed it, ran the patch (which removes the DRM btw) and it runs like a dream.

 

[made]

Hegemonia < Reunion. That was one disappointing sequel. Cool soundtrack though.

 

[Orgasm]

Lets not touch the more important concepts of gameplay regarding the z axis in such hit classics as Homeworld and its (the z axis) failure to matter but concentrate on the semantics.

What the fuck are you on? Z-axis not mattering in Homeworld? Oh boy, all those ambushes (both against me and AI) from wildly different Z-axis were my imagination then, I guess.

If you are going to have a space game in 3D, then the vessels should be able to move in Z-axis as well.

Oh to get a proper space sim with real physics and stuff - like Falcon 4.0 but IN SPACE! :D

Its not an ambush if the direction of attack doesnt matter and there is no surprise factor. You could argue that the direction matters to capital ships because they turn slow but it doesnt because since mission 4? you have a sensor ship with you and anything coming at you can be easily reacted to, especially other capital ships since they are slow as fuck. Anything smaller can come from anywhere since it outmaneuvers bigger things anyway. Now everything is not an ambush at all since you can see them coming a mile away from mission 4? and on. So where are the ambushes?

It seems that you have a vivid imagination or big rosy glasses. Well... there is one! Exactly one attack where the z-axis might! matter. In one of the later missions they move a big force pretty low under the normal horizontal to your base. The interesting thing here is that with a sensoring upgrade of your base, you can actually see them coming on the radar as darker red spots and investigate. Lets say, you didnt see them. They are coming from down under at your base and again the direction of attack doesnt matter, there are no different armor values, nothing that would give the z-axis any meaning. They could as well be coming from behind in 2d space.
This attack isnt even the doing of the "AI" since its a scripted event. With a binary outcome, either you have forces close enough to the base or you dont.

So lets look at Skynet here... The AI in the game is heavily scripted. And when not, its modus operandi is the most retarded "attack what you see first" and never ever even change target. That has probably something to do with Homeworld being a real time 3d game in the year 2000. They needed the AI to react in 1 second on contact (rule of thumb for ai agents and for ai devs in real time games) so they made it really dumb and concentrated on being 3d... My guess.

So basically I could play through the whole game without using the z-axis at all. It loses nothing if you go 2D. But no, they needed some gimmick to sell. And made shitty missions like that one, where you have to navigate a tunnel of space to protect your ships from radiation. And guess what? Navigation in 3d space with a fixed camera is a pain in the ass. And to mission design: "There are some interesting discussions to be had on this topic from a design perspective. At the heart of the problem, you have unnecessary downtime, since moving characters across a map is neither challenging or fun, and with the exception of Dungeon Siege fans, most gamers recognise this."...

PS: the z-axis can be implemented to matter but it isnt and please! dont use the retarded term space game. Its more retarded than rpg!

 

[Trash]

The game is shit. It simply is not much fun to play it. Plenty of good ideas marred by a very unfriendly design. It's also buggy as hell. My ship just got blown up while being docked at Tesla. One moment I'm happily browsing missions and the second I see my little ship being hit and blown up. Game crashed as well at that point.

I'm not even starting about the shitty AI, fixed camera and clickety click combat but just hit the uninstall button and be done with this.

 

[BoboSmrad]

Well, guess this game is gonna have a rough time ahead of it, with all the contradictory comments, some adore it, some hate it. But, as it happens, here's the first official review of the game that I've found to be around, written by James Allen on OutOfEight - SPG got 7/8 - which (and I agree) is commendable:

http://www.outofeight.info/2010/12/star ... eview.html

 

[DraQ]

since mission 4? you have a sensor ship with you

Mission fourteen, not four.
Before that, all you see is blips, a single blip might be a lonely scout/probe or a massive capship wall about to ruin your day.

there are no different armor values

As a matter of fact, differing armour values are even mentioned during one mission, along with recommendation to take advantage of weaker top, bottom and rear armour on enemy vessels.

Navigation in 3d space with a fixed camera

Are we even talking about the same game here?

and please! dont use the retarded term space game. Its more retarded than rpg!

If you can come up with any less retarded blanket term covering games as different as RTSes, RPGs, tactical games, shooters and simulators, provided they're set in space, I'm all ears.

 

[Orgasm]

I am so tempted to educate you, son, but I made a new years resolution not to argue with morrons.

 

[Mortmal]

Have it installed, played a bit, i am really not enthusiastic about it, i pretty much fell asleep while playing it.
I know we must support indies etc..Its too much to ask to have as much fun than wit a 1995 game like elite 3 i suppose. Maybe i am just jaded i am too used to awesome games. This one is far under elite or X3 in quality , 2D , no Z axis for a space game.. in 2010, a painful clickfest, awful art direction,and above it all its boring.No really i had much better space games even on my c64.Not worth to speak much about it ,its an unredeemable piece of shit.

 

[DraQ]

I made a new years resolution not to argue with morrons.

You made the right decision - inner peace is very important, everyone aiming to abolish conflict should start doing so from within.

 

[Ruprekt]

If this is something like pirates! with combat of the depth of starfleet command then I want it.

So ... is it?

 

[Orgasm]

since mission 4? you have a sensor ship with you

Mission fourteen, not four.
Before that, all you see is blips, a single blip might be a lonely scout/probe or a massive capship wall about to ruin your day.

Lie. Its mission 10. The first 5 are a fucking tutorial.

there are no different armor values

As a matter of fact, differing armour values are even mentioned during one mission, along with recommendation to take advantage of weaker top, bottom and rear armour on enemy vessels.

Another lie. They are non existent. Fact.

Navigation in 3d space with a fixed camera

Are we even talking about the same game here?

Underhand lie. No scrolling.

and please! dont use the retarded term space game. Its more retarded than rpg!

If you can come up with any less retarded blanket term covering games as different as RTSes, RPGs, tactical games, shooters and simulators, provided they're set in space, I'm all ears.

Hmm. Rpg? Let me quote you "SPACE GAME?!?! NO Z AXIS??! BIGGEST FAIL EVER !!!111"
Is this an apology?

 

[DraQ]

Lie. Its mission 10. The first 5 are a fucking tutorial.

Tutorial is fucking labelled as such. It's not Relic's problem that your puny attention span can't handle the game starting slowly.

Another lie. They are non existent. Fact.

Dumbfuck's word VS official info AND ship definitions in game files, who should I trust and why?

Discuss!!

Underhand lie. No scrolling.

Why would I want to scroll around empty space? Anything of interest I can focus my camera on.

Hmm. Rpg? Let me quote you "SPACE GAME?!?! NO Z AXIS??! BIGGEST FAIL EVER !!!111"
Is this an apology?

No, just you failing to understand written word, sorry.

 

[Trash]

A game does not need a Z axis to be fun. No, not even a space trader/pirate/smuggler game. It however does need other things to make it fun, like interesting gameplay. Shame they forgot to implement that in Starpoint Gemini.

Get privateer, frontier, star control 2 or space rangers instead.

 

[nFn]

If this is something like pirates! with combat of the depth of starfleet command then I want it.

So ... is it?

 

[Norfleet]

The really awful thing about this game is that it is impossible to look in any direction other than forwards. So you can know there are enemies behind you, but it is impossible to actually look at them without turning to face them, which is probably something you don't want to do. I like mounting all my guns on the back half of the ship!

But the Z-axis thing? Yeah, that's overrated. My field experience in 3D space combat simulators tells me that there are precisely 3 directions of note in such an environment: Towards the enemy along the axis of attack, away from him, and normal. Everything else is just so much fluff: You're either going towards the enemy, away from the enemy, or circling him. With that in mind, it's functionally 2D. It doesn't matter if you're circling "upwardly" or "sidewaysly" because up and down have no meaning in space, so everything is a side if you choose to treat it that way. The only time it "matters" is when vehicles for some reason have design vulnerabilities on their top/bottoms that are not shared with their sides, and stubbornly insist on orienting themselves relative to some arbitrary plane instead of simply rolling over. Which is also stupid.

 

[DraQ]

But the Z-axis thing? Yeah, that's overrated. My field experience in 3D space combat simulators tells me that there are precisely 3 directions of note in such an environment: Towards the enemy along the axis of attack, away from him, and normal.

What if scenario involves more than just two ships duking it out in the middle of nowhere?