Stardock's new game "Elemental: War of Magic"

[Elwro]

http://forums.elementalgame.com/395604/get;2760335

We, as a team, are getting collectively sick of every little post since release being dissected and analyzed. The problems with Elemental at launch are exhaustingly well known.

If you don't want to see more developer journals, keep it up.

True Bethesdan spirit

 

[Raghar]

The modding comunity is already fixing it. The first Random Map Generator is out.

1.2 - Wrote floating point numbers correctly for non-US operating systems.

In addition he based that map generator on a noise function, which creates quite bad results. Weathering algorithms, and subdivision works much better. Plate tectonic and modeling of rain shadow is even better than these simple algorithms.

Basically it's a quite screw up.

For beta testers, only the Kingdoms have been exposed. The Kingdoms play much like a traditional 4X game. You build city improvements to get benefits to your city. You train up soldiers hoping they’ll get better and better. It is a civilization based on laws and rules.

The Empire has taken a different path…

In War

Their soldiers don’t gain experience. Such a concept of thinking about individual soldiers is anathema to the Empire.

As such, there is no such thing as a veteran Imperial soldier. However, they can train up special, powerful units (Guardians, Enforcers, and Sions). These powerful individuals will routinely demonstrate the inherent flaw in trying to train groups of soldiers to be more effective. Greatness is born. Not learned.

In Peace

There is no tradition of civics in the Empire. Moreover, the concept of bee keeping or fruit orchard harvesting and what not is completely foreign. The Empire looks at the Kingdoms with absolute contempt that they would waste time harvesting such things.

Of course, it also means the Empires can harvest fewer special resources in the world. To make up for this, the Empire can build hog farms adjacent to their farms. That’s real food. Pathetic Kingdoms.

The Empire also scoffs at the Civics concepts of markets. Deals are made on the basis of leverage alone. Instead of relying on institutions, the Empire relies on leaders of capitalism to deal with it. Players can build Financiers (until we have a better name, feel free to suggest a better one) who enhance the city’s money making.

Similarly, there is no formal education system in the Empire. Schools? Universities? These concepts are worthless. The Kingdoms foolishly entrust their futures to special interests. In the Empire, players can create Sage units who can be sent where they are needed to boost knowledge production.

There are no pubs in the Empire. No Inns. Such decadence is forbidden. Prestige is generated by showing respect to those who have seized power such as statues to great figures such as Lord Kir-Tion and Curgen the Dred’nir.

When I browsed his forum I found this gem. Luckily he didn't implement this.
However considering he posted it in 10 May, and projects like this require at least three months of (bug testing and other stuff) before release, kinda wonder why would he release it that soon. (That above was serious game change, it can't be something added at last moment, and they should have properly written design considerations, and other stuff that makes it a game.)

When I looked at that forum, I found it consisted of yes sayers. It's obvious they were unlikely to provide a real non destructive critic in time. Basically bunch of posters that expected something, lied to themselves, and were bitter afterwards. I would suggest a design document, and main rules for game frozen 6 month before release, it looks like his standard design methodology isn't working well. (Of course a rigid design document has problems as well but they are more easily to step around.)

 

[Ruprekt]

Now I want to read the Elemental novel.

 

[Trash]

Decided to have a look at the elemental forum to see what's up but was reminded exactly why I avoid dev forums like the plague when the second thread I saw was about players lamenting the lack of HAWT SEXY female armor. Fucking hell.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Hey, King's Bounty had that armored princess with busty cleavage armour so... :D

 

[Ruprekt]

Master of Magic had boobs.

 

[Groof]

You all is no longer going to drool ugly filters all over your games before taking pictures of them.

 

[Zeus]

You all is no longer going to drool ugly filters all over your games before taking pictures of them.

Yeah, what the Cookie Monster said. Pixels rule, filters drool.

 

[Ruprekt]

ok pixel boobs it is from now on

 

[Zeus]

Troy Goodfellow's Three Moves Ahead podcast #81 has an interview with Stardock's Brad Wardell (and some PR woman they don't bother crediting in the podcast description).

http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2010/ ... d-wardell/

I'm listening to it now. At one point, Troy brings up Brad's blog post from July complaining that his own spells were dull. Brad responds with, "Well back then they were just big fireball, bigger fireball, ice fireball..." and says they fixed them. Which is strange, because that was pretty much the state of the 1.0 release, minus a few stray city enchantments.

I can't wait for updates/user mods to add a really useful spell system. I'm talking layering on enchantments for combos, fun stuff like that. Right now it's about as exciting as Age of Wonders 1.

 

[Trash]

With the difference that AoW1 was actually a pretty fun game.

 

[Zeus]

I'm strictly comparing the the magic system. Coming off of Master of Magic, AoW seemed to have about 18 spells. Same story with Elemental.

 

[Ruprekt]

MoM came with a seperate spell book manual. I still have mine

 

[MetalCraze]

What's your take on Lords of Magic?
(And Lords of Realm now that we are at it)

 

[Mortmal]

What's your take on Lords of Magic?
(And Lords of Realm now that we are at it)

Is it a real question ? You want us to admit we enjoyed it , then only you will trash it , exposes its flaws , and show to the world how low our standards are , right ? right?

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

 

[Shannow]

What's your take on Lords of Magic?
(And Lords of Realm now that we are at it)

I liked Lords of the Realm (2) when I was thirteen or so. I still remember some funktions that I liked and would like to see implemented in a TW-game. You needed access to resources to build equipment with which to equip your troops. If your army was on enemy territory they "foraged" reducing or removing the upkeep cost. The tactical portion had some issues in that men on map represented different amounts of men on army. Thus making is ridiculously easy to hold a bridge with a 100 man stack against 10 x 10 man stacks, but sucking extremely if your 100 man stack had to fight 4 x 25 man stacks on open ground.
I don't remember much more.

 

[Lightknight]

Coming off of Master of Magic, AoW seemed to have about 18 spells.

Actually 104.
Also, if i remember correctly, every hero had his own magic affinities.

 

[Zeus]

Coming off of Master of Magic, AoW seemed to have about 18 spells.

Actually 104.
Also, if i remember correctly, every hero had his own magic affinities.

Which is a lot. But again, coming off of Master of Magic, it seemed like few.

Let's compare two schools of magic, Age of Wonder's "Fire" and Master of Magic's "Chaos".

Age of Wonders's Fire:

• 
  Fire Level 1
  Summon Fire Sprite
  Fury
  Call Flames
  Flaming Arrow
  
  FIRE LEVEL 2
  Cloud of Ashes
  Fire Halo
  Fire Breath
  Swarm
  
  FIRE LEVEL 3
  Anarchy
  Fire Barrier
  Fireball
  Sacrificial Flame
  
  FIRE LEVEL 4
  Fire Storm
  Fire Mastery
  Summon Fire Elemental
  Warmnger

Total: 16 Spells.

Not bad. Now let's see Master of Magic.

Master of Magic's Chaos:

• COMMONS
  Fire Elemental
  Hell Hounds
  Wall of Fire
  Eldritch Weapon
  Disrupt
  Fire Bolt
  Lightning Bolt
  Shatter
  Warp Wood
  Corruption
  
  UNCOMMONS
  Chimera
  Doom Bat
  Fire Giant
  Gargoyles
  Flame Blade
  Immolation
  Warp Creature
  Fireball
  Raise Volcano
  
  RARE
  Chaos Spawn
  Efreet
  Chaos Rift
  Doom Bolt
  Flame Strike
  Magic Vortex
  Metal Fires
  Warp Lightning
  Warp Reality
  Fire Storm
  
  VERY RARE
  Great Drake
  Hydra
  Call the Void
  Armageddon
  Chaos Surge
  Doom Mastery
  Great Wasting
  Meteor Storms
  Call Chaos
  Disintegrate

Total: 39 spells.

Note that the lowest level of MoM's Chaos magic contains 10 spells, nearly as much as the entire school of AoW's Fire magic.

It's also worth noting that summoning a Fire Elemental is an end-game tactic in Age of Wonders, while it's one of the earliest spells available in Master of Magic. Little things like that made AoW's magic system feel feel weak compared to MoM.

 

[MetalCraze]

Amount doesn't mean shit when you use only 4 of them

 

[Zeus]

Amount doesn't mean shit when you use only 4 of them

Just out of curiosity, which four did you use?

 

[BethesdaLove]

none. the ai is beyond retarded. i can win while sleeping,
but i pimped my fav school, necro, and used some summonnig shit

 

[Lightknight]

It's also worth noting that summoning a Fire Elemental is an end-game tactic in Age of Wonders

Fire Level 1
Summon Fire Sprite

 

[Zeus]

It's also worth noting that summoning a Fire Elemental is an end-game tactic in Age of Wonders

Fire Level 1
Summon Fire Sprite

Er, yes? Did you somehow miss:

FIRE LEVEL 4
Summon Fire Elemental 

Fire Sprite != Fire Elemental. A flaming Tinker Bell does not a towering firebeast make. If you want a Fire Elemental, you have to wait for the Level 4 spell. That's my point: Common Master of Magic spells are treated as the most powerful magic in Age of Wonders. It's like playing a pen and paper RPG where you don't get Magic Missile until the end of the game.

And despite Master of Magic having a lot more spells than Age of Wonders, its summons aren't palette swapped and functionally redundant. There's a real difference between, say, the Common summons Hell Hounds and Fire Elemental.

Hell Hounds are permanent troops that must be summoned outside of battle and have a mana upkeep cost. Fire Elementals are special in that they are summoned during battle, which is perfect if you forgot to properly defend a city and are under surprise attack. Also, Hell Hounds are four individual troops, rather than one large troop like the Fire Elemental, which means a significant difference in how combat bonuses are calculated.

 

[Raghar]

This is better list:

http://aow2.heavengames.com/aowsm/gamei ... fire.shtml