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StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

kris

Arcane
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
8,844
Location
Lulea, Sweden
Now, this is "crucial", because if I could play it like I did the original, leisurely slowing down the messy parts and bringing the speed up again when needed with a (relatively) quick gesture, I might buy the collection for the Single Player alone. Otherwise, it'd be a pointless purchase for me.
So can any of you shed some light on this issue?
Thanks a lot! :)

LOL. Yes, but only on lower difficult were it is not needed anyway.
Normal = Normal, fast and faster speed
Hard = Fast and faster

Not assed about checking other difficulties.
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2015
Messages
637
Location
Kangaroo Island
People here are seriously overrating the story and the writing of the first StarCraft game... not to say that one was partially developed by Kevin J. Anderson, the sci-fi hack.
The motivations of all of the characters and factions made sense, it was well-paced, it didn't stray from the point, it didn't lose track of its own tone, it obeyed the rules that it set for itself, and it stayed on the same logical arc from start to finish all the way through all six campaigns.

You'll notice that almost all "good" writing is just writing that's consistent. Was Starcraft some majestic feat of science fiction excellence the likes of which not even Frank Herbert could conjure? Fuck no, but it was consistent and consistency is what generally leads to a satisfying experience in fiction.
 

mastroego

Arcane
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
10,255
Location
Italy
LOL. Yes, but only on lower difficult were it is not needed anyway.
Normal = Normal, fast and faster speed
Hard = Fast and faster

Not assed about checking other difficulties.
Thanks kris, very kind of you, I know enough now.
I was kind of pissed that I didn't get to play it. It still doesn't seem like you can REALLY slow it down, but maybe it's manageable. I think I'll grab the complete package, maybe even wait for a sale... hmm that might take too long...
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,241
Received and started playing my not-removed-from-inventory copy. Thoughts:

- Oh wow, Amon really is Sargeras.
- Remember when Blizzard said each campaign would be unique? The strategic mechanics are literally just a copy of the Zerg campaign except instead of powering Kerrigan you power the Spear of Adun. Down to going to the homeworld of the Zerg homeworld of the Protoss midgame to what I presume will unlock the 3rd unit customization options just like in HotS.
- Unlocking units mission by mission is kind of bullshit by the third expansion. It would be so much more interesting to have most of the units and them get the alternate unit types by mission. The unit customizations are cool but so far the only unit I see as not having a clear-cut best choice is the Sentry.
- Spear of Adun is bretty gud. At least it can't flat out solo maps like Kerrigan. Warping in Pylons is pretty handy, being able to dump into half a dozen immortals is hand, freezing units is a bit OP but not too bad. Knowing Blizzard I'm guessing its going to get silly OP by the endgame like Kerrigan was though.
- The really annoying thing about Protoss is that they basically 100% rely on balling. If your base gets attacked while you are fighting somewhere else you're gonna lose a huge amount of stuff before you get back. Thankfully the Shield Batteries + Cannons perform pretty decently (far better than pure cannons, which are shit) at holding off small attacks but still get utterly destroyed by large ones. This wasn't a problem in earlier campaigns (Terran could hold off almost anything with some siege tanks + bunkers, Zerg had creep tumors that gave you ample advanced warning), but as Protoss you now basically need to guess when the enemy will attack and bring your units home ahead of time. This leads to needing about 1 or 2 reloads per map because you haven't figured out the attack temple and half your base gets destroyed while your 200/200 ball was somewhere else. And you can't split that ball or it dies horribly. Thankfully about half the maps provide an expansion which gives the glut of minerals needed to spam cannons.
- Missions are generally alright. Most don't have a hard timer but instead the enemies simply keep sending stronger and stronger forces at you, so if you aren't actually trying you'll run out of resources pretty quickly. The one annoyance is that some maps don't have waves coming from enemy bases but just spawning in. Destroying the enemy bases does almost nothing to decrease the number of attacks you suffer. Fuck that shit. It's kind of a 50/50 whether you should be clearing out the map methodically or just rushing the objective, and again this necessitates a retry if you guess the wrong strategy.
- There's a lack of mission options. Really wish it was like in WoL where you had 4-5 separate plot threads you can do at once, but I guess that would be too non-linear for the AMAZING story Blizzard is trying to tell.

People here are seriously overrating the story and the writing of the first StarCraft game... not to say that one was partially developed by Kevin J. Anderson, the sci-fi hack.
The motivations of all of the characters and factions made sense, it was well-paced, it didn't stray from the point, it didn't lose track of its own tone, it obeyed the rules that it set for itself, and it stayed on the same logical arc from start to finish all the way through all six campaigns.

You'll notice that almost all "good" writing is just writing that's consistent. Was Starcraft some majestic feat of science fiction excellence the likes of which not even Frank Herbert could conjure? Fuck no, but it was consistent and consistency is what generally leads to a satisfying experience in fiction.

Pretty much this. RTS doesn't exactly set a high bar. Either be cheesy and funny (C&C series) or just be decent with characters/plots that make sense. Starcraft 2 could almost go for the cheesy and funny if Blizzard wasn't trying so damned hard to make it seem serious and dramatic.

That said some of the cinematics were absolutely top-notch shit.

I've tried investigating about Manatee's suggestion, but I'm confused.
Apparently that speed hack would work but you'd need to slow down the entire game, down to the movies, at a configuration level.
That'd be annoying, not to mention there's the whole issue of the thing not being allowed if you are connected and such.

You can bind a hotkey to different things in Cheat Engine. i.e. numpad 1 = normal speed, numpad 2 = .75x, numpad 3 = .5x. Seemed to work very well in a quick test. Only problem I can see is that if you edge-scroll the map it will go up and down with the speed.
 
Last edited:

Jaedar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
9,873
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
- The really annoying thing about Protoss is that they basically 100% rely on balling. If your base gets attacked while you are fighting somewhere else you're gonna lose a huge amount of stuff before you get back. Thankfully the Shield Batteries + Cannons perform pretty decently (far better than pure cannons, which are shit) at holding off small attacks but still get utterly destroyed by large ones. This wasn't a problem in earlier campaigns (Terran could hold off almost anything with some siege tanks + bunkers, Zerg had creep tumors that gave you ample advanced warning), but as Protoss you now basically need to guess when the enemy will attack and bring your units home ahead of time. This leads to needing about 1 or 2 reloads per map because you haven't figured out the attack temple and half your base gets destroyed while your 200/200 ball was somewhere else. And you can't split that ball or it dies horribly. Thankfully about half the maps provide an expansion which gives the glut of minerals needed to spam cannons.
- Missions are generally alright. Most don't have a hard timer but instead the enemies simply keep sending stronger and stronger forces at you, so if you aren't actually trying you'll run out of resources pretty quickly. The one annoyance is that some maps don't have waves coming from enemy bases but just spawning in. Destroying the enemy bases does almost nothing to decrease the number of attacks you suffer. Fuck that shit. It's kind of a 50/50 whether you should be clearing out the map methodically or just rushing the objective, and again this necessitates a retry if you guess the wrong strategy.
I don't get this at all. I never retreated or defended really. When you get attacked you either warp in the next wave in your base or use a spear of adun power or more both. I even stopped building cannons at some point in the campaign because this was so reliable. Admittedly I am only playing on hard.

- There's a lack of mission options. Really wish it was like in WoL where you had 4-5 separate plot threads you can do at once, but I guess that would be too non-linear for the AMAZING story Blizzard is trying to tell.
Yeah, this is bretty bad. I also think it's pretty shit that you never get access to warp prisms or observers.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,241
I don't get this at all. I never retreated or defended really. When you get attacked you either warp in the next wave in your base or use a spear of adun power or more both. I even stopped building cannons at some point in the campaign because this was so reliable. Admittedly I am only playing on hard.

On Brutal the counterattacks can definitely get pretty rough. Especially the Hybrids, all of them are disgustingly OP and a pack of them can decimate a mid-sized army. I haven't unlocked the 2nd half of the SoA powers, and the ability that freezes enemies for 30s is under high demand for helping my offense as well since stalker/immortal/zealots need tons of help to break bases. Given what HotS was like I'm almost expecting the difficulty to nosedive hard as soon as I get Colossi (Protoss is pretty highly gimped without them) along with higher tier SoA powers.

Yeah, this is bretty bad. I also think it's pretty shit that you never get access to warp prisms or observers.
Warp Prisims I'm OK without since you have the SoA ability to summon Pylons. Since Shield Batteries are so cheap I sometimes summon pylon and then build 2/3 shield batteries + 2 cannons at forward choke points. Plus the alternate Sentry has the warp prism's ability

Observers would be nice but I guess Blizzard thinks you can't introduce a new unit unless you've designed a whole mission around the usage of that unit.
 

mastroego

Arcane
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
10,255
Location
Italy
You can bind a hotkey to different things in Cheat Engine. i.e. numpad 1 = normal speed, numpad 2 = .75x, numpad 3 = .5x. Seemed to work very well in a quick test. Only problem I can see is that if you edge-scroll the map it will go up and down with the speed.
Ok, interesting, thanks.
It means the cheat engine is the way to go then..
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,998
In any case, I take solace in the fact that it's a trend, and no trend is forever. I mean already even a couple years ago superhero movies were ubiquitous but now they seem to be on their way out (well there's still a bunch coming out, but they aren't getting anywhere near the attention they used to be getting, so maybe it'd be better to say they're hastily finishing their last drink before they start getting ready to be on their way out, but whatever). Soon the whole faction politics thing will have its time again.
Actually there will be more comic book films coming out now than ever now that DC comics has also decided to go all in. I think you might just be basing your wrong opinion on your flawed perceptions.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,998
A few other things worth mentioning. Why do the characters in SC2 campaigns get so emotional over dead marines. They're basically violent criminals serving out their sentence as an long succession of suicide missions, all the while pumped full of various drugs that make them go insane over time. A marine that survives long enough will probably be reduced to a drooling wreck. Pump and dump is the idiom, I believe.
Not true. Marines can be both volunteers and criminals. Since wartime needed much more marines, I doubt they had any more criminals to send so my guess would be most of post BW marines are just recruits and people deemed by Arcturus to be anti-dominion or something.
 

MilesBeyond

Cipher
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
716
Actually there will be more comic book films coming out now than ever now that DC comics has also decided to go all in. I think you might just be basing your wrong opinion on your flawed perceptions.

Yeah but that's kind of my whole point. As a trend picks up steam and more and more come out, the market becomes over-saturated with it. There's a lot of superhero movies coming out in the next few years, maybe even more than ever before, but that's the thing - they'll all be competing with each other, making it a lot easier for a new trend to oust them, as opposed to a few years back when it was mostly about a couple of titantic franchises (Dark Knight and Avengers, really). It's a lot easier to divide and conquer when they're already doing the dividing part for you.
 

Drudkh

Learned
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Messages
111
Well now waiting for all 3 to be bundled in 1 package.

It's already been done. 60 dollars @ battlenet, which i recently purchased.

Btw, too bad about the single player campaigns of these games, Blizz back in the day was my fav devs when it came to deep single player campaings, but holy shit the story and event scenario's are rubbish in these new SC games. AoE III and Company of Heroes destroy these games.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,626
Story was terrible.

The Q character was ok.

It is really pathetic that the new multiplayer units are not showcased in the campaign.

All of the missions feel the same. Hidden countdown timers everywhere.

Whole trilogy feels like a very heavy-handed way of setting up an MMO (that they probably won't make).
 
Last edited:

Drudkh

Learned
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Messages
111
^ lol, i don't think it could be summed up better.

I'm still not sure which of the 3 campaigns is the hokiest when it comes to story, they're all so cringeworthy.

I'm kinda scared to see what they might do with a Warcraft 4 after this
 

rado907

Savant
Joined
Apr 23, 2015
Messages
249
Well now waiting for all 3 to be bundled in 1 package.
My brother bought me such a package a few days before the game came out. It was on b.net for $60. IDK if they have a physical "ultimate edition" tho.
 

MilesBeyond

Cipher
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
716
Well now waiting for all 3 to be bundled in 1 package.

Not really much point, TBH. Multiplayer is the meat of the game and for that you only need LotV. Buying WoL and HotS at this point only gives you access to their campaigns. I guess WoL might be worth it, but don't bother with HotS.
 

kris

Arcane
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
8,844
Location
Lulea, Sweden
Well now waiting for all 3 to be bundled in 1 package.

Not really much point, TBH. Multiplayer is the meat of the game and for that you only need LotV. Buying WoL and HotS at this point only gives you access to their campaigns. I guess WoL might be worth it, but don't bother with HotS.

It is only the meat of the game if you think it is fun. I didn't find it fun, unlike multiplayer in starcraft1 which I did.
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
6,207
Location
The island of misfit mascots
Received and started playing my not-removed-from-inventory copy. Thoughts:

- Oh wow, Amon really is Sargeras.
- Remember when Blizzard said each campaign would be unique? The strategic mechanics are literally just a copy of the Zerg campaign except instead of powering Kerrigan you power the Spear of Adun. Down to going to the homeworld of the Zerg homeworld of the Protoss midgame to what I presume will unlock the 3rd unit customization options just like in HotS.
- Unlocking units mission by mission is kind of bullshit by the third expansion. It would be so much more interesting to have most of the units and them get the alternate unit types by mission. The unit customizations are cool but so far the only unit I see as not having a clear-cut best choice is the Sentry.
- Spear of Adun is bretty gud. At least it can't flat out solo maps like Kerrigan. Warping in Pylons is pretty handy, being able to dump into half a dozen immortals is hand, freezing units is a bit OP but not too bad. Knowing Blizzard I'm guessing its going to get silly OP by the endgame like Kerrigan was though.
- The really annoying thing about Protoss is that they basically 100% rely on balling. If your base gets attacked while you are fighting somewhere else you're gonna lose a huge amount of stuff before you get back. Thankfully the Shield Batteries + Cannons perform pretty decently (far better than pure cannons, which are shit) at holding off small attacks but still get utterly destroyed by large ones. This wasn't a problem in earlier campaigns (Terran could hold off almost anything with some siege tanks + bunkers, Zerg had creep tumors that gave you ample advanced warning), but as Protoss you now basically need to guess when the enemy will attack and bring your units home ahead of time. This leads to needing about 1 or 2 reloads per map because you haven't figured out the attack temple and half your base gets destroyed while your 200/200 ball was somewhere else. And you can't split that ball or it dies horribly. Thankfully about half the maps provide an expansion which gives the glut of minerals needed to spam cannons.
- Missions are generally alright. Most don't have a hard timer but instead the enemies simply keep sending stronger and stronger forces at you, so if you aren't actually trying you'll run out of resources pretty quickly. The one annoyance is that some maps don't have waves coming from enemy bases but just spawning in. Destroying the enemy bases does almost nothing to decrease the number of attacks you suffer. Fuck that shit. It's kind of a 50/50 whether you should be clearing out the map methodically or just rushing the objective, and again this necessitates a retry if you guess the wrong strategy.
- There's a lack of mission options. Really wish it was like in WoL where you had 4-5 separate plot threads you can do at once, but I guess that would be too non-linear for the AMAZING story Blizzard is trying to tell.

People here are seriously overrating the story and the writing of the first StarCraft game... not to say that one was partially developed by Kevin J. Anderson, the sci-fi hack.
The motivations of all of the characters and factions made sense, it was well-paced, it didn't stray from the point, it didn't lose track of its own tone, it obeyed the rules that it set for itself, and it stayed on the same logical arc from start to finish all the way through all six campaigns.

You'll notice that almost all "good" writing is just writing that's consistent. Was Starcraft some majestic feat of science fiction excellence the likes of which not even Frank Herbert could conjure? Fuck no, but it was consistent and consistency is what generally leads to a satisfying experience in fiction.

Pretty much this. RTS doesn't exactly set a high bar. Either be cheesy and funny (C&C series) or just be decent with characters/plots that make sense. Starcraft 2 could almost go for the cheesy and funny if Blizzard wasn't trying so damned hard to make it seem serious and dramatic.

That said some of the cinematics were absolutely top-notch shit.

I've tried investigating about Manatee's suggestion, but I'm confused.
Apparently that speed hack would work but you'd need to slow down the entire game, down to the movies, at a configuration level.
That'd be annoying, not to mention there's the whole issue of the thing not being allowed if you are connected and such.

You can bind a hotkey to different things in Cheat Engine. i.e. numpad 1 = normal speed, numpad 2 = .75x, numpad 3 = .5x. Seemed to work very well in a quick test. Only problem I can see is that if you edge-scroll the map it will go up and down with the speed.

Re having to guess with Protoss - can't you just put a couple of high-vision/see-invis units out on the likely attack routes to get advance warning?
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,998
He is just bad at the game. I had zero problems defending with combination of cannons and Dark Templar warp in that respawn when they die and fight again. The trick is to have 9+ Warpgates
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,241
Re having to guess with Protoss - can't you just put a couple of high-vision/see-invis units out on the likely attack routes to get advance warning?
In early levels its very hard to get enough units to do so with even perfect macro, and sometimes the AI seems to just hunt down separate units because it feels like it. But I've found the difficulty drops like a log on later levels. Attacks seem far weaker and you get way more time and advanced units to hold them off. Also the SoA powers are OP and can defend the base all on their own.

He is just bad at the game. I had zero problems defending with combination of cannons and Dark Templar warp in that respawn when they die and fight again. The trick is to have 9+ Warpgates

You have 9 warpgates, are banking over a thousand minerals/gas, and are calling other people bad?
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,998
Did I say I made those 9 warpgates at same time? I just keep building them early while I do everything else. I never had few thousand resources in these missions. I always turned it into research and troops (any troops) and cleared them easily.
 

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