KickStarter Free Stars: Children of Infinity - upcoming Star Control 2 sequel from Fred Ford's Pistol Shrimp Games - Kickstarter Live

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Well, it seems to escalate now.

https://af.gog.com/forum/general/star_control_1_and_2_being_removed_from_gog?as=1649904300

We'd like to inform you that on Tuesday, December 5th, we will be removing Star Control: The Ur-Quan Masters and Star Control: The Kessari Quadrant from GOG catalogue. There is an ongoing discussion between the original developers and Stardock, which leads us to this removal. For some more details you can read a recent blog post by Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III.
We hope this is just a temporary thing and both games will get back to the catalogue. Of course if you have the game already, you won't be affected by the removal.

 

[MRY]

It's like the Doctrinal Conflict has begun between SC:O and GotP. SC1 and 2 were just slave shielded. :/

 

[Cael]

Well, it seems to escalate now.

https://af.gog.com/forum/general/star_control_1_and_2_being_removed_from_gog?as=1649904300

We'd like to inform you that on Tuesday, December 5th, we will be removing Star Control: The Ur-Quan Masters and Star Control: The Kessari Quadrant from GOG catalogue. There is an ongoing discussion between the original developers and Stardock, which leads us to this removal. For some more details you can read a recent blog post by Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III.
We hope this is just a temporary thing and both games will get back to the catalogue. Of course if you have the game already, you won't be affected by the removal.

Pass the popcorn.

And here's to hoping Stardock gets it up the rear for their blatant rip-off cash grab.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

Some old developers are like classic rock stars. They used to be good but suck now. Spector, Lord British, Carmack, Romero, Molyneux, Avellone, etc.

Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III have not done anything worthwhile since SC2 (1992). When you can't do anything worthwhile, the only way to generate hype is to be a drama queen.

 

[Cosmic Bane]

Just to be clear, your view is that (1) space opera (i.e., the genre of Starship Troopers, Star Trek, Foundation, Dune, Firefly, Ender's Game, Babylon 5, etc.*) "should have nothing to do with politics" and (2) Star Control II did not have politics in it (in direct contradiction to Reiche's own description)? It seems like both halves of this are blatantly wrong.

It is likely the case that (a) space opera creators' politics have generally drifted leftward; (b) some consumers' have drifted rightward; (c) having been told that they should stop consuming and start dying by various Twitter radicals, consumers on the right are highly sensitized to, and inclined to fight more over, politics in mass media. But given that another Star Control game from these two heroes is an unexpected grace, it seems like the proper approach is to try to control any allergic political reaction and enjoy the game, in the same way that it makes sense not to get up in arms over the global warming themes of the Julian Gollop's new game even if you'd rather not listen to environmentalism.

(* Note that I'm not even bothering to list the dozens of overtly political major space opera writers like Pohl, Delaney, Ringo, Reynolds, Brin, Pournelle, etc., or the even more political space opera writers of the past twenty years.)

1. You're a faggot.
2. You don't know what a space opera is.
3. Morals are not politics.
3.a They especially aren't "issue of the day" screeds on issues people either don't care about or are very annoyed by
3.b muh identity is not real politics either, it is just entitled whinefeels
4. Game will never come out
5. If it does it will be shit.
6. Please die

 

[Zarniwoop]

Dammit, missed the *silly cows* drama again. It is *frumple*.

 

[Black]

Guys, let's not fight, it xmas.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Dammit, missed the *silly cows* drama again. It is *frumple*.

 

[Executr]

Brad Wardell made a response to that blog post on the Stardock forums: https://forums.starcontrol.com/486284/Stardock-response-to-Paul-and-Fred

Stardock response to Paul and Fred
We are disappointed that Paul and Fred, two people we have a great deal of respect and admiration for, have chosen to imply that we are somehow preventing them from working on their new game.

Stardock has been nothing but supportive of their new project and wish them the best. I personally made the post here on StarControl.com in support of it.

With regards to their contentions:

First, as many people know, the classic Star Control games have been available for sale long before Stardock acquired the rights from Atari four years ago. For the entirety of the time we have held the rights, they have been getting paid for those sales. If they had an objection to the games being sold this is something that could and should have been addressed before we were ever involved.

Second, we have stated, repeatedly and consistently for over four years that we are not using any of the aliens from the classic series. As we have stated, our position is that, to the best of our knowledge, the classic alien IP is owned by them.

We have also discussed, at length, why it wasn't commercially viable for us to attempt to continue or retell the Ur-Quan story. 25 years is just too long of a gap. This is one of the reasons why we have been so excited about Paul and Fred's project. Their game frees us to introduce new characters and a new story into the new Star Control while allowing fans of the classic series a way to continue the classic story. This strikes us as a win-win situation.

Lastly, when we acquired Star Control from Atari in 2013, many assets were transferred to us including the various publishing agreements to the Star Control franchise. The short version is that the classic IP is messy. We understand that this makes them "really really angry" but we weren't a party to that agreement. All we can do is try to put something together that releases them from the restrictions placed on their IP that they agreed to and transfer any and all rights and responsibilities to them. We want them to make Ghosts but we don't want any liability or association with it.

Given the disturbing and unanticipated post by Paul and Fred, we are persuaded more than ever that a clear and irrefutable document that makes it clear that we are not associated or involved with their new game is needed.

We have nothing but respect and admiration for Paul and Fred and wish them well in their new project.

 

[MRY]

Frogboy -- You should have put asterisks around "*responsibilities*" rather than using italics. Would've been a funny callback, while also introducing creepy mystery for people to speculate about!

 

[Unkillable Cat]

To me, the original news item that started all of this sounded to me like a gigantic case of *Nnnnnngaaaa!!!!* from the Orz.

I hope it gets resolved in a similarly *silly manner*.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

*Frumple*

 

[Cosmic Bane]

I think Stardock is a good company even though they don't really make that great of games so far. Any other company would just force them to stop work on their game and claim they own 100% rights to everything even if that is not true at all.Much like with Bethesda and Interplay when Bethesda clearly had no such unlimited rights, just a lot of lawyers.

Their only restriction is on the name and chances are anyone who knows what star control is will also know who they are anyway and nothing can stop you from using "spiritual successor" in the marketing.

They didn't have resources and possibly not desire to make a followup for 20+ years. Now they want to ride on the coattails of the new game I guess, or else be involved in the development with stardock (and presumably get some or all of the rights).

They need to man up and just call the game Ghosts of the Precursors: an Ur-Quan tale or some crap and let it go.

 

[Roscoe Scaggs]

And things are escalating https://www.dogarandkazon.com/blog/...ii-arent-for-sale-on-gogcom-any-more-how-come

Star Control® I, II and III aren't for sale on GOG.com anymore -- How come?

We've decided to stop selling our old games, because:

1. We think it's necessary to 'clear the decks' to help resolve our definitely-not-harmonious, until-recently-private, months-long conflict with Brad Wardell and his lawyers at Stardock.
2. The Ur-Quan Masters HD Project is a free, vastly superior experience. Did we mention it's free? Fans have been dedicated to improving UQM for 15 years and it is awesome! Hopefully Star Control I and III will also become available for free in the near future.

Why was it okay to sell the games on GoG, but not on Steam or elsewhere?

The simple answer is because we have had our own direct distribution agreement with GOG since 2011 and no agreement with Stardock or Steam or anyone else. If you're into details, here goes:

• In April 2011, we learned that Star Control I, II and III had been re-published on Good Old Games (GOG) — a big surprise since the games hadn’t been sold for years and no one had contacted us for permission to do so.
• We reached out to GOG who said our games had been offered to them by Atari as part of a large batch of older Atari products. We then contacted Atari to let them know that we were the original authors and owners of the copyright to the games and that we had not given permission for them to republish our work. Atari checked with its lawyers and wrote back confirming our claims, apologizing to everyone for the mistake and informing GOG to remove the games from sale and pay any royalties earned to us.
• Instead we suggested a way that GOG could continue to sell our games. GOG signed separate, independent contracts with: Atari to license the Star Control trademark, and us to license the rights to the games themselves. GOG has been selling the games and paying us directly ever since.
• In October of this year, history repeated itself when Stardock began selling our games on Steam and elsewhere (even bundled with theirs), again without getting our permission. This time we couldn't come to an agreement, so we asked that Stardock stop bundling and selling the games. They refused,so we've decided to end our 2011 distribution agreement with GOG as a first step to having the games pulled down.

Fred and Paul pulled the SC games from GOG as a prelude to pulling them from Steam (where Stardock is selling them).

At this point point the best thing may be for them to let it go, and make their damn game unless they really think Stardock will go after them if they make Star Control: But not Really. Origins will be going for 1 dollar on Humble Bundle by the time that happens anyway.

Anyway Stardock wins no points for playing dumb.

 

[MRY]

In the pretty good fantasy series The First Law (Age of Decadence fans might enjoy it), there's a collapsed ~Roman empire in which various rival claimants to the imperial throne wage wars over an increasingly desolate land. The heroes have to traverse the territory on their quest, and need to cross a large river to do so.

"Nobody will be crossing the river at Aostum any longer. Scario, running from his brother's vengeful armies, fled across the bridge and had his engineers bring it down behind him."
"He destroyed it?"
"He did. A wonder of the Old Time which stood for two thousand years. Nothing remains. ... If you wish for my advice, I would leave the Empire to its misery."

 

[Frogboy]

GOG has agreed to remove SC 1/2/3 because they don't want to be in the middle of a legal dispute over a 25-year old DOS game.

They keep making all these claims but have yet to provide us with any documentation to support it. If they had a document or agreement that indicates that the sales agreement was terminated, they have yet to share it.

Meanwhile, we have a signed agreement that was transferred to us from Atari between it and GOG as well as one between Accolade and Paul and they're running around claiming their new game is an official sequel to Star Control II which is madness.

We have instructed the lawyers to show as much restraint and gentleness as possible. But Paul and Fred really need to talk to legal counsel instead of making posts.

 

[Black]

Can't you just meet over pizza and beer instead of using, eww, lawyers?

 

[Cael]

Well, well, well. It is becoming a bit clearer, isn't it?

Stardock went from:

(brad from Stardock here)
Stardock has no interest to use the old IP, has stated numerous times that it has no intention to use the IP without Paul and Fred's involvement.

To:

Meanwhile, we have a signed agreement that was transferred to us from Atari between it and GOG as well as one between Accolade and Paul and they're running around claiming their new game is an official sequel to Star Control II which is madness.

And all this time Stardock has been claiming that they WELCOMED Paul and Fred making a SEQUEL to UQM because Stardock's is not a sequel but an in-name only prequel that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the established SC universe and will be taking things in directions will have absolutely NOTHING to do with the established SC universe.

It would seem that Paul and Fred may not have been that unjustified in their anger after all...

 

[Infinitron]

Meanwhile, we have a signed agreement that was transferred to us from Atari between it and GOG as well as one between Accolade and Paul

Maybe Atari forgot about the deal they made in April 2011 and didn't tell you about it? It would surely be convenient for all to blame everything on a bankrupt company.

they're running around claiming their new game is an official sequel to Star Control II which is madness.

What is it supposed to be then, a wink wink nudge nudge "unofficial" sequel?

 

[Morblot]

 

[Beastro]

This is like seeing a morbidly obess blob of a man cross a rickety old bridge back and forth for a couple month until it finally collapsed: I'm only surprised it didn't happen the first time he crossed it.

What is it supposed to be then, a wink wink nudge nudge "unofficial" sequel?

Doesn't fucking matter, it's the legitimate sequel and no legal shit can get around that.

All of that is to the way side over this spat, but we all know the only thing about Origins that's Star Control is those two words in it's title no matter what SC content they may insert.

 

[Makabb]

All I know is that if there will be ever a new SC game, i'm buying one made by the developers of the original 20 year game.

 

[MRY]

I'm going to offer the counsel of despair here -- this morning I was struck with the sickening thought that the announcement of Ghost of the Precursors, a game with nothing but a title to it, may have been part of the IP struggle, rather than the precipitating cause of that struggle, as often happens in Hollywood for instance...

 

[Infinitron]

I'm going to offer the counsel of despair here -- this morning I was struck with the sickening thought that the announcement of Ghost of the Precursors, a game with nothing but a title to it, may have been part of the IP struggle, rather than the precipitating cause of that struggle, as often happens in Hollywood for instance...

In before the entire thing was masterminded by Bobby Kotick.

"We deliver our Star Control IP back to you, master!"

 

[Infinitron]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...rds-erupts-in-the-messy-world-of-star-control

Odd war of words erupts in the messy world of Star Control
"This is where we got really, really angry…"

Things are not at all well in the world of Star Control, with a public war of words erupting between two parties who claim the rights to sell the classic PC space games.

The story began with a 1st December blog post from Fred Ford and Paul Reiche, the original creators of the Star Control universe. In it the pair, who recently announced a new Star Control game, said there was a "growing legal conflict" between them and publisher Stardock, which is working on a Star Control game of its own.

The conflict appears to revolve around the sale of the classic Star Control games. Ford and Reiche contend Stardock isn't allowed to sell Star Control 1, 2 or 3 without their permission. "That permission has not been given," they insisted.

The original Star Control games remain on sale on Steam.

In 2013, Stardock bought the rights to Star Control as part of an Atari bankruptcy auction. But Ford and Reiche dispute this, saying: "It's our opinion that Atari's rights to publish our earlier games terminated over a decade before the auction and we contend that Stardock has zero rights to our games, including any code and other IP we created."

There's more. Ford and Reiche said Stardock reckons it can use "our aliens, ships and narrative without our permission, but thinks that we cannot make a sequel to The Ur-Quan Masters without their permission".

"This is where we got really, really angry," the post continues.

It's worth explaining the two new Star Control games at this point. Ford and Reiche are working on Ghosts of the Precursors, which is intended to be a direct sequel to Star Control 2. Stardock, on the other hand, is working on a game called Star Control: Origins. They have nothing to do with each other, apparently.

Ford and Reiche's blog post concludes: "We've been waiting 25 years to make Ghosts of the Precursors for our fans and we certainly won't let this stop us. Go! Go! Go!"

This sparked a response from Stardock's Brad Wardell, who in a forum post took issue with various points raised by the original creators.

Wardell said the classic Star Control games have been available for sale long before Stardock acquired the rights from Atari four years ago, and for the entirety of the time Stardock has held the rights, Ford and Reiche have been getting paid for those sales.

"If they had an objection to the games being sold this is something that could and should have been addressed before we were ever involved," Wardell said.

Wardell then insisted Stardock is not using any of the aliens from the classic series. "As we have stated, our position is that, to the best of our knowledge, the classic alien IP is owned by them," he said.

Wardell said, however, that the classic Star Control IP is "messy". "We understand that this makes them 'really really angry' but we weren't a party to that agreement," he continued.

Here's where things get a bit more serious. Wardell again:

"All we can do is try to put something together that releases them from the restrictions placed on their IP that they agreed to and transfer any and all rights and responsibilities to them. We want them to make Ghosts but we don't want any liability or association with it.

"Given the disturbing and unanticipated post by Paul and Fred, we are persuaded more than ever that a clear and irrefutable document that makes it clear that we are not associated or involved with their new game is needed.

"We have nothing but respect and admiration for Paul and Fred and wish them well in their new project."

Things did not end there. Yesterday, 4th December, Ford and Reiche published another blog post, saying they were hauling Star Control 1, 2 and 3 off of GOG.

"We think it's necessary to 'clear the decks' to help resolve our definitely-not-harmonious, until-recently-private, months-long conflict with Brad Wardell and his lawyers at Stardock," the pair wrote.

Ford and Reiche said they've had their own distribution agreement with GOG since 2011, but no agreement with Stardock or Steam (Stardock still sells the Star Control games on Steam).

They also said that in October this year, "Stardock began selling our games on Steam and elsewhere (even bundled with theirs), again without getting our permission".

"This time we couldn't come to an agreement, so we asked that Stardock stop bundling and selling the games. They refused, so we've decided to end our 2011 distribution agreement with GOG as a first step to having the games pulled down."

Who owns the rights to Star Control? It's all a bit messy.

This follow-up blog post sparked a follow-up forum post from Wardell, who accused Ford and Reiche of continuing to make "unsubstantiated claims".

"Stardock... possesses a perpetual, exclusive, worldwide licensing and sales agreement that was explicitly transferred to us by Atari who in turn acquired it from Accolade that has Paul Reiche's signature along with a signed distribution agreement between Atari and GOG for the DOS Accolade Star Control games," he said.

Then there's a bit of needle:

"The tone of their blog posts is similar to the kind of correspondence they had with us since the announcement of their Ur-Quan Masters successor, vague, full of demands and without any documentation," Wardell said.

"With all due respect to Paul and Fred, they really should talk to competent legal counsel instead of making blog posts."

That's where we're at. It seems that the next step will be for Ford and Reiche to get lawyers involved, if they're serious about preventing Stardock from selling the original Star Control games. Meanwhile, the games remain available to buy, and we're no closer to a new Star Control game.