Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

What are your favorite Gold Box games?

  • Pool of Radiance

  • Curse of the Azure Bonds

  • Secret of the Silver Blades

  • Pools of Darkness

  • Champions of Krynn

  • Death Knights of Krynn

  • The Dark Queen of Krynn

  • Gateway to the Savage Frontier

  • Treasures of the Savage Frontier

  • Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday

  • Buck Rogers: Matrix Cubed

  • Forgotten Realms: Unlimited Adventures (FRUA)


Results are only viewable after voting.

Joonas

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
172
Location
Finland
I know some on here have experimented with the Gold Box Companion.

I tried to get it working tonight with Windows 10, 64 bit version, but I constantly get the following error:


The latest version of Gold Box Companion is very picky about the DOSBox version / game version you use. It's meant to be used with the GOG-versions of the games but should also work with vanilla DOSBox 0.74 and various abandonware versions. That D-Fend frontend might also cause issues. It doesn't work with Daum builds of DOSBox.

There's an older version of GBC available which is not so picky about the the DOSBox environment / game version:
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jhirvonen/gbc/gbc201.zip

(it doesn't have the combat map / effects of the new one)

If you still have problems, you could send me your game version (just zip the whole game) and I can try it out.
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
I know some on here have experimented with the Gold Box Companion.

I tried to get it working tonight with Windows 10, 64 bit version, but I constantly get the following error:

The latest version of Gold Box Companion is very picky about the DOSBox version / game version you use. It's meant to be used with the GOG-versions of the games but should also work with vanilla DOSBox 0.74 and various abandonware versions. That D-Fend frontend might also cause issues. It doesn't work with Daum builds of DOSBox.

There's an older version of GBC available which is not so picky about the the DOSBox environment / game version:
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jhirvonen/gbc/gbc201.zip

(it doesn't have the combat map / effects of the new one)

If you still have problems, you could send me your game version (just zip the whole game) and I can try it out.

Thank you for the response. That log was from the latest attempt. I also tried it with DosBox launched normally as well. My thoughts were that maybe GBC was having issues with finding DosBox on Windows 10 maybe?

I'll try it again and let you know tonight when I get home from work.

My goal is to play through all the pools because I never got past SotSB back in the day and you app looks amazing for making the experience easier.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,228
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Part 1 of a massive editorial about why the economy in the Gold Box games sucks: http://crpgaddict.blogspot.com/2016/09/guest-post-why-economy-sucks-in-ssi.html

GameBanshee excerpt:

Unfortunately, as many fans know, there is one glaring flaw in these games: they essentially lack any sort of useful economy. Money, in almost every game in the series, is essentially useless, because of the fact that the party is given copious amounts of it, at every turn, as a reward. Unlike most other games of the era, there is simply nothing worthwhile to spend money on. In an average play-through your party will throw away literal mountains of copper, silver, gold and platinum.

My goal, in this article, is to examine the how's and why's of this situation, and to essentially assign responsibility for this state of affairs as I see it. During the course of this post we will discuss several points about these games. SSI's company line that they were forced to use the rules as written, the changes made by SSI to the written rules, how money sinks were avoided, and how they clearly followed treasure tables, while ignoring written rules in the DMG that were supposed to be used in conjunction with said tables.

...

Alternatively, a character or monster may choose to move into melee range without utilizing a charge. If this option is taken, no attacks may be made by the moving party as the round is spent closing into melee range carefully while fending off any "attacks of opportunity."

SSI completely ignored these rules in the Gold Box games. There is no charge maneuver. Characters can move into melee range, without an attack of opportunity by their opponent even if said opponent has a longer weapon, and then perform a standard melee attack. [Ed: is the ability of characters and monsters to "Guard" in the SSI games related to rules about charging and setting weapons? Or was this a separate action in the tabletop rules?]

Given the risk associated with a charge, this change has a dramatic impact on the pace and nature of combat. One can move into melee multiple times in a round, if multiple attacks are available, in an SSI game. One cannot do so in the rules as written. The written rules allow a set of units effectively to block access to a more vulnerable unit; without those rules, it becomes easier for units to target vulnerable foes without a chance of impediment. Thus, these changes drastically alter the feel and flow of combat.

This was likely done because the average CRPG gamer would have seen that set of terms as unacceptable. “I have to move to the monster and just sit there a round before I can attack?! Wtf?!” would likely have been a common reaction.

...

More complex items are explicitly excluded from creation. Any of the Manuals that provide XP or improve stats cannot be created, nor can items like the Hammer of Thunderbolts. There is little codification as to which items are supposed to be excluded. This is again left to the DM to determine.

It is a bit disappointing that these rules were excluded from the Gold Box games. In Curse of the Azure Bonds, for instance, a sage in each town might have sold a magic item recipe for a high price. You could then undergo the required steps to make that item, if it seemed worthwhile, burning more money in the process and perhaps taking the mage character out of commission for part of the gameplay. [Ed: I'm thinking of a system that combines the way weapons and armor are created in The Magic Candle with the way characters must leave the party to work regular jobs.]

That being said, this is a completely understandable change. As-is, a mage does not have direct access to "Permanency" until they can cast 8th level spells, so it’s omission outside of Pools of Darkness and Dark Queen of Krynn is in line with the games' own power curve. If they had included a magic item creation process in those games, they would have also needed to provide "Permanency" scrolls.
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
19,182
Location
Bjørgvin
It can be explained in one sentence: The computer games had to adhere to the pen&paper rules, but they lacked all the high level stuff like castles, retainers, soldiers etc moneysinks.
The article is interesting and very comprehensive, but it's more like a history of D&D than about economics in the GB games.
 

rezaf

Cipher
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
650
I think they didn't really care about economy enough to do something about it, and - frankly - I think they made the right call.
I don't really know why CRPGAddict is so obsessed with this and even has one of his GIMLET components be specifically about the economy.
Would Pool of Radiance be that much better a game if only you could buy a house in New Phlan and equip it with a fancy bathroom, a bar, a laboratory, a training room, some fancy trophies from Chult, a pet Beholder and whatever stuff they could've come up with to sink money in?
 

ProphetSword

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
1,755
Location
Monkey Island
I think they didn't really care about economy enough to do something about it, and - frankly - I think they made the right call.
I don't really know why CRPGAddict is so obsessed with this and even has one of his GIMLET components be specifically about the economy.

I actually agree with this. In all the years of playing hundreds of Gold-Box games (both the originals and tons of FRUA modules), I never once thought to myself that the games suck because my characters had accumulated too much money. Money provided experience points and a means to purchase resurrection services at temples and to help pay for training. The first part of that is important...a good number of XP in the game comes from the treasure you find, whether you take it or not. But, that's how AD&D worked in those days. Whether we could do anything with the money didn't matter.

In my mind, I'd like to think that the adventurers I rolled up retired right after the game ended and built their own luxury castles somewhere. So, I fail to see why having a lot of money in the end is a bad thing. If I've spent it all by that point...what did my characters get for their efforts? In those days, the number one motivation for adventuring in D&D was the accumulation of treasure.
 
Last edited:

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
19,182
Location
Bjørgvin
Personally I don't think Economy is a big enough deal to warrant its own score, but it does detract from enjoyment when you get unlimited money from buying cheap stuff in a low price shop and selling at a profit in the high price shop next door, which is a reality in some FRUA designs.
 

ProphetSword

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
1,755
Location
Monkey Island
Personally I don't think Economy is a big enough deal to warrant its own score, but it does detract from enjoyment when you get unlimited money from buying cheap stuff in a low price shop and selling at a profit in the high price shop next door, which is a reality in some FRUA designs.

It can be a problem, if the author doesn't know better, and it's easily fixed. And so is the issue of having too much money. But neither of these things should automatically make the game "terrible."
 

Hitoshura

Educated
Joined
Nov 9, 2013
Messages
54
Pool of Radiance has politics involved in the plot. Perhaps that instead of simply buying a house or a castle, you could build your own faction in the city and you would need the money to sustain that. If it's well integrated, it can well interact with the rest of the game, i.e. creating RPG C&C. Granted, it's not a new idea, I've played a few games and these ideas tend to end up as maintaining a dull doll house but there's likely something good to do with it.
 

CryptRat

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
3,548
I finished my Krynn trilogy playthrough. I'm always impressed by how good these games are.
I'm not sure which one I preferred. On one hand I like the pacing of DKOQ with a lot of small towns to free and I like the different situations and characters you're meeting in these towns ; I also like fighting level-draining enemies as long it is not too punitive (so in this case because it's not permanent) and completing a dungeon with several drained levels. But on another hand in TDQOK the tomb under the minotaur town, the last tower and the lighthouse are very good dungeons and some fights against draconians (and dark wizards) and the fights against an horde of vampires are my favourite ones in the trilogy.
 

eXalted

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
1,213
Is there a way to remove invisible enemies from the Combat View of the Goldbox Companion? Joonas ?

I mean this view:
screen05.jpg
 

Null Null

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
542
I know of no other location in the games where you have blue bane minions, dracoliches, bits of Moander, and pets of Kalistes in one place. (Also note the frame is the Bane's Dimension frame.) Most of those monsters don't even exist outside Pools of Darkness.

So yes.

My guess is the developer wanted to show off the best site for his software...
 

Alkarl

Learned
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Messages
472
I had a question,

I just imported a party into Curse via:
Pool>Hillsfar>Curse

and I am trying to dual my human Cleric to Paladin (If I remember correctly, clerics dualed to Pali can turn as a x level cleric and y level Paladin once they surpass x level) but for some reason, despite having minimum class req for both classes, it wont let me do it. Only option I get is to change to a Fighter.

Belmont Lawful Good
Cleric lvl 9
Str 18
Int 14
Wis 18
Dex 16
Con 17
Char 17

Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!

If all else fails, I do have gbc, but I'd rather not do that unless this turns out to be a bug.
 

Alkarl

Learned
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Messages
472
Nvm, figured it out, int was too low, however none of the information I could dig up mentioned an int req of more than 9 (manual makes no mention of dual-classing beyond "yea, it's a thing") so I gbc'd my stats to change then set them back.
 

eXalted

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
1,213
I'm in the slums of Pool of Radiance. First time playing.

What weapon should I give to my magic-users? Dart is useless. Daggers will get them too close to the enemy. Tips?

And what should I do with my Thief, she is almost useless. She is like a fighter but only a weak one. I must always go round the enemies and stab them in the back?
 

kmonster

Augur
Joined
May 24, 2010
Messages
316
Darts are far from useless. You get 3 attacks per round for 1-3 damage each that's more than a pure mages without strength bonus will do in melee. The disadvantage is that they have to be bought and are used up. Quarterstaff does more damage than dagger but magical is better than non-magical, just switch depending the weapon quality you find. Daggers can also be used for throwing, just don't forget to pick them up again after combat.

If you don't want to melee with your thief use ranged weapons like darts or a sling (free ammo), for backstabbing make sure another character attacked the target first this round (you can delay) and attack from the opposite direction.
 

eXalted

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
1,213
Thank you for the tips. My mages can attack only once per turn with dart. Am I missing something?
 

Null Null

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
542
No, their THAC0 just sucks, and at least in FRUA you could only attack at medium range which had a -2 to hit (you can't use a missile weapon if there's an enemy next to you, which means that the shortest possible distance an enemy can be from you and still be reachable by dart is 2 squares, but that's the point at which accuracy begins to drop--yes, it's a bug).

Darts are sort of the only thing to do with them at least until you get your spells built up. I don't even use pure thieves because setting up backstabs is too hard in this game.
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
19,182
Location
Bjørgvin
And what should I do with my Thief, she is almost useless. She is like a fighter but only a weak one. I must always go round the enemies and stab them in the back?

A single class Thief is rather useless, due to level caps (she'll max out XP in no time). I'd choose a Fighter/Thief instead, and equip her with bows and arrows. In PoR backstabbing is not very useful, since you need two characters (as opposed to only one in later GB games) to set up the backstab, and at low level the backstab modifier is low.
But in Curse of the Azure Bond OTOH backstabbing will be highly useful against magic resistant Drow.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom