Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[Ruhfuss]

Re: the RoEI issue. Now my game is perma-broken, like "it should be" from other people's experiences regarding the RoEI issue. All I did is coming back from the Web Dimension, right after entering, and discarding my Drow items. The RoEI was safely stored in the vault, no dimension travelling with it in the backpack. I not even took it from the vault when the game interface was still in Web-Dimension-style, but re-entered the Realms first, went to the Red Tower, entered Limbo from there and then got my inventory back.

It is one of the few items that survives going through Limbo. Can it be the traveling that breaks it?

Perhaps. But breaking an item while it's not even present, but (assumedly) safely stored away is quite the feat.

 

[Ruhfuss]

Another update on the EFX byte stuff. Trying another style.

Byte 1:

effect ID​

Byte 2:

minutes in game time remaining for temporary effects (usure how this translates into combat rounds/turns)
correlates with byte 4
00 if byte 4 is FF​

Byte 3:

defaults to 00; seems to correlate with byte 1
01 if fire resistant from spell
05 if mind blanked from spell​

Byte 4:

correlates with byte 2
0C: effect is temporary, source is item
1C: effect is temporary, source is spell
3C: hasted from spell - aging effect?
FF: effect is permanent​

Byte 5:

defaults to 00
correlates with byte 4
01 while byte 4 is FF denotes permanent effect from item (changing this to 00 while keeping byte 4 at FF still removes the effect when the item is un-readied, which SUCKS)​

Byte 6:

no clue so far; seems to be always 00​

Byte 7:

no clue so far; seems to be always 00​

Byte 8:

00 for the last item in the EFX file
various values if another item follows​

Byte 9:

00 for the last item in the EFX file
various values if another item follows​

Misc stuff:

• There's both "bonus damage from rangers" and "giant slaying sword", so the damage effects should stack for a Ranger wielding a LSvsG. Poor giants.
  
• The Scroll of Prot Dragon Breath's effect lasts 12 rounds.
• "harrassed by snakes" should be caused by the 4th level Cleric spell "Sticks to Snakes", which never worked for me in any Gold Box game.
  
• XenForo BB markup lacks codes for tables.

 

[Joonas]

Nice job, Ruhfuss.

Those last two bytes might be related to pointers in linked lists, chaining the effects together in memory. Item data has similar links. Maybe after a save game is loaded, those values are updated with pointers to actual memory or something.

 

[Ruhfuss]

Thanks, Joonas.

Just reduced my party size to 2 characters with the best items I had available, which included 2 Rings of Blinking. These alone made most encounters a joke. Beholders are trivial if they can't target anything. Adding permanent haste and the vorpal weapon property on top of that made things really mean.

Warrior(17) + STR 23 + Fine Long Bow +2 + Arrows +4 -> THACO -10, 4 attacks, each with a chance to instakill

There's both "bonus damage from rangers" and "giant slaying sword", so the damage effects should stack for a Ranger wielding a LSvsG. Poor giants.

They should, but they don't. My testbed ranger with both effects only did regular enhanced damage vs. giants. Isn't it nice how sometimes games encourage jumping to conclusions by offering all kinds of features that would fit so nicely together...?

 

[Jo498]

I haven't tried in this game but I seem to remember a game with stacked damage from a ranger. I am sure that it worked against undead giants with mace of disruption in DKK. With the giant slaying sword I found it preferable to give it to the Paladin so that both he and the Ranger(s) can wreak havoc among the giants. (Dwarves get a slight bonus as well, but only +2 or so, not double or similar).

The RoEI is the main problem I have found so far. I do use quite a few buff spells, usually walk around with the main fighters enlarged and prayer, + mirror image and globe for mages before tough fights. All seem to have their proper effects and go away again properly (except for that one fire resistance).
For whatever reason I use haste only if absolutely necessary, although I think aging does not really have an effect, or does it? Haste does make some fights too easy because enlarged/hasted fighters kill almost everything very quickly (of course other fights are only possible with haste)

 

[Comte]

What are the bugs in DQK?

 

[Jo498]

I don't know about DQK. I remember two (rather benign) glitches from others: the 100s of jewelry one can somehow get in PoR and one in DKK that let me find one potent treasure hoard (incl. Mace of Disruption and Gauntlets of Ogre power) several times so I could have given these items to all characters...

 

[ProphetSword]

What are the bugs in DQK?

I know from experience that there's a bug in DQK that makes it unable to be finished (which is why it's the only one of all the Gold-Box games I've never finished). You reach a point where your progress is blocked (I don't remember where exactly) if you don't do things in exactly the right order. Once that happens, that block is never removed and you cannot proceed any further into the game no matter what you do.

EDIT:
I found it in a walkthrough available here: http://www.the-spoiler.com/RPG/SSI/dark.queen.of.krynn.1.html

WARNING: There is a bug in some versions of this game. If you confront Trandamere by going in through the front door of his room, you will not be able to leave Hawkbluff.

That same page also lists these other bugs in the first version of the game (which is the one I have):

The following are known bugs in Version 1.0 of THE DARK QUEEN OF KRYNN:

1. Sometimes you cannot get some of your characters back under control after
putting them in Quick mode no matter how fast you hit the space bar.

2. The computer will sometimes put monsters in a room with no doors. The
only way to end a battle in this case is to flee the area. This bug in
conjunction with bug 1 means that the only way to end the battle in this case
is to reboot the system. You can avoid this battle or enter the battle area
from another direction. This rearranges the battlefield disposition of the
enemy troops and the close room problem may not occur.

3. Normally, characters who are ready to train to the next level have their
names highlighted in purple. In some cases this will not happen. This bug
effects multi-class characters who have reached the limit in one of their
classes but not the other. Periodically check the experience points of your
characters or try to train all of them anytime you are in a training hall. The
game does not allow any knight other than Knights of the Rose to advance
beyond level 18. This is a feature.

4. In Hawkbluff you may be stuck in a situation where you cannot continue to
play the game. See the Hawkbluff section for more details. It is a good idea
to save the game before Hawkbluff and keep that save until you have completed
the mission just in case you encounter this bug. There is a fix for the
problem in The Game Publishers Forum (GO GAMPUB).

5. In the Fire Tower you may find yourself teleported into a room you cannot
get out of. The workaround is to reboot and avoid that square.

6. One useful bug is the magic scrolls randomly created by the People's
Temple in Kristophan do NOT abide by the alignment restrictions.

7. The previous games did not enforce the spell limits based on intelligence
and wisdom correctly. This games does. The correction only happens if a
character gets drained and restored. When that happens, the spell limits are
properly enforced. This is not a bug but may look like one if this happens to
your character.

 

[octavius]

2. Never seen this happen in DQK, but In FRUA this can happen, but you will automatically win after a certain amount of rounds (25 or so).

 

[Kersey]

That same page also lists these other bugs in the first version of the game (which is the one I have)

Why aren't you able to patch your version? The official 1.1 patch fixed most of the known problems with DQK as far as I know. But I haven't made it that far in my Gold Box run so it's not like I have played DQK extensively. Just interested.

 

[ProphetSword]

That same page also lists these other bugs in the first version of the game (which is the one I have)

Why aren't you able to patch your version? The official 1.1 patch fixed most of the known problems with DQK as far as I know. But I haven't made it that far in my Gold Box run so it's not like I have played DQK extensively. Just interested.

I can. When I played the game, it was in the 1990s, and I had no idea the game was so broken. Since then, I haven't tried to play it again.

The real difficulty is in finding the patch in this day and age.

EDIT:
Nevermind. I just found a full copy of the 1.1 version online. Since I own the original disks, I won't feel bad about getting it that way. Maybe I'll be able to finally play it to completion.

 

[ProphetSword]

2. Never seen this happen in DQK, but In FRUA this can happen, but you will automatically win after a certain amount of rounds (25 or so).

You can also automatically win in POD if this happens (there's at least one or two places where it can happen), so I can verify it exists in some previous Gold-Box games as well. It's possible the person who wrote the walkthrough wasn't aware of this.

 

[Null Null]

For some people, it's the only way to win the end battle in POD.

Here's one I haven't seen: in the version of POD I had, the treasure with the arrows in the mini dungeons where the beholders are attacking the village resets if you leave and come back. You can go back and get it an unlimited number of times.

 

[Jo498]

I'll have to try the beholder treasure. As I said, I had a similar experience with a treasure in DKK but I do not recall the details. Either I could repeat the battle at will and gained the treasure every time or I could simply find the treasure. This would have allowed maces of disruption and gauntlets of ogre power for the whole party. (I restricted myself to three )

As for PoD: Can one leave Arcam's caves without losing anything? One is given the option even after chasing him for a while but I don't understand the cluebooks remarks. I stumbled into this when collecting a reward for eliminating Marcus (I had forgotten that there was no further opponent left) but would probably prefer to have break (training etc.)
And does anyone happen to have notes from playthroughs with approximate lvls of party members when doing Kalistes Land, Moander etc.? I have done most of the Realms stuff, the mage is lvl 22, the cleric 27. She was probably a level or two lower but when I did the drow temple etc. drow (and esp. pets) still had a fair chance completely resisting e.g. DBF. I don't feel like grinding but maybe I should go Moander first. The monsters there are different; I think bits of Moander have less base resistance (but immunity to fire/electricity instead). So it's cone of cold, enlarge and haste there I guess

 

[Dorateen]

And does anyone happen to have notes from playthroughs with approximate lvls of party members when doing Kalistes Land

I can tell you that according to the journal I was keeping in 1992, on June 18, I was exterminating (grinding) spiders in Kalistes' Dimension for the purpose of training up our magic-user before the big battle.

On June 19, I wrote: "D'arkspell becomes an Arch-Mage!" That is the class title for an 18th level magic-user.

I had completely missed Thorne's dimension prior to this part of the adventure, and moved on to the Red Tower/Moander next. So I would probably guess the party was low 20's at that point and upward from there. It was only after being informed in Mulmaster that we needed to put Thorne in his place, that we went back to Steading.

 

[Jo498]

So you went there really early! (Mage starts game with lvl 13 or 14, I think)
This is roughly what I did on my first playthrough as well (probably a little later because I got a German language Amiga version of the game when it was already reduced in price, so it was maybe 93) because I also missed Thorne despite doing at least the beginning of the giants steading. I probably somehow missed the connection to the dragon's aerie. I do not remember the levels but I remember that drow and pets were a major PITA because of the resistance. I also missed a lot in the Kalistes dimension (like the testing grounds and all that backstory). I did a few of the little dungeons and then the main/end dungeon. Probably lots of re-loads...

Nullnull: I have not tried indefinite times but the treasure in the village near mulmaster is findable at least once again despite the village being deserted. The items are not all that great but it is a lot of XP (20 jewelry and lots of gems and platinum), so if someone needs to level up quickly, he might explore that glitch...

I found another curiosity: There are darts of hornet's nest that are flagged as magical and some are not. Marcus has two of the latter variety but I found another one earlier. It gets starred by detect magic and is destroyed in limbo. Both can be sold for 750. I have not tried them in battle. As far as I remember the dart works only once but then like ten darts or so (if it hits).

 

[Null Null]

Drow magic resistance is 50% + 2%/level, and levels for the drow are: priest, 6F/7C; priestess 7C/8T; sorcerer 7F/9M; sorceress 9M/10T; champion 7F/11M; wizard 11M/15T.

Resistance is thus 64% priest, 66% priestess, 68% sorcerer, 70% sorceress, 72% champion, 80% sorceress. The Pet of Kalistes has an 85% magic resistance. That's the chance of the spell not working at 11th level, modified up or down by 5% per level of the casting mage.

So a starting mage (13th level) has only a 30-46% chance of affecting any individual Drow, which when you're dealing with 10 or 12 Drow, all spellcasters, is a real problem.
Conversely, a 23rd level mage has a 80-96% chance of affecting the Drow, with a 75% chance of affecting a Pet. I like to get my characters into the mid-twenties. Kalistes should definitely not be your first step; clear out Thorne and all the mini adventures on the map first, and you might even try to clean out Moander (though this is hard).

 

[Jo498]

Where do you get the exact lvls/numbers? I realized that some of the drow (very rarely) backstab but never knew that had actually thief lvls. Interestingly, except for the cleric lvls they seem to respect the restrictions for elves (7 max for fighters, 11 for mages, although Silk has a higher fighter level than 7).
How does the magic resistance of the PCs scale?
I went to Moander but I am only on the surface and some of the little sub-dungeons now and it is not pleasant... Partly because it is so hard to find good equipment. I ragequit last night after two chars got "stoned" by green bits (I survived the fight but was annoyed). With only -2-3 AC the bits have a fair chance to hit very often.
Probably now my two demi-humans show there weakness as they are still below lvl 20 thieves (16 and 19 or so) and probably have lower resistance than the others.
And the bits are more resistant to hold monster than I remembered. (Also "destruction" and PW Kill did not have any effect?! What is it about these high lvl spells? Did not someone say there was no saving against Power Word spells?) The best spells seem to be the ones I remember from 20 years ago: magic missile, cone of cold, ice storm, blade barrier, all of which do full damage.

Re: Arcam: I read further above that after the bad guys Thorne, Manshoon and Marcus he sends the party after some of good NPCs like Vala or Priam. I somehow missed this. When I came back after defeating Marcus (and I don't remember if I got back after Manshoon (who escaped anyway), so it might have been after those two), there was no talk of good guys but I received the gems and after this was attacked by a lot of fighters and thieves. Probably because I had finished all the episodes with those NPC in the Realms before?

 

[Jo498]

The magic resistance is another good argument against a multiclass elf. I had not quite considered this. And it is hard to see if one is not so familiar with the mechanics or D&D. And the beginning of the game, actually most of the realms parts are fairly unproblematic with such a guy as support mage (because for giants, dragons, most humans it hardly matters he is "only" a lvl 11 mage )
I really wish I had made/kept notes of my first playthrough. Sheer masochism because we played all the time on adept lvl which makes everything a little worse. There must have been dozens of re-loads...

 

[Null Null]

The original #s are from the Fiend Folio, but you can get the levels by entering the test dungeon (there are descriptions how to do this on the FRUA forums and, I think, on the author of Gold Box Companion's website) and adding the enemies to your party. You can see how many levels everyone has, etc.

The 1st ed level limits are a pain for the uninitiated. It's funny because a lot of the monsters have 2nd ed stats--the tanar'ri most obviously.

Within Moander you can walk around until you find some humans, fight as many humans as you can and take their stuff--some of them drop some useful items. This should help with your AC. You will probably have to wind up dropping your elf unless he is an F/M/T (and possibly even then). One of the few things the POD cluebook tells you is 'nonhumans are not useful in this game'.

As for Arcam: you can kill/drive away Thorne, Manshoon, and Marcus, and I believe you get money. He does send you after the five good NPCs but since you can't actually bring them back, he just tolerates your failure and sends you after the next one. After you've done that he attacks you--but the size of his army decreases each time.

Also if you get to the Red Mage emissary with the fire elementals try to march through and clear out as many fixed encounters as possible--if you rest before facing the next few encounters you will face 'organized resistance' which is tougher (and a beholder or two gets added in). Something to keep in mind.

I actually did a run of an Arcam campaign as described above--it was a fun change of play order. The game's not as open as Pool, but it's close. Closer than any other game, I think--you can even go into the final dungeon and wander around before you get any of the stuff! (Bad idea though.)

Good luck, it's a fun game if you don't weaken

 

[Ruhfuss]

As I said, I had a similar experience with a treasure in DKK but I do not recall the details. Either I could repeat the battle at will and gained the treasure every time or I could simply find the treasure. This would have allowed maces of disruption and gauntlets of ogre power for the whole party.

It's the armory in Cerberus. The armory can be looted for an unlimited supply of Maces of Disruption, Rings of Protection +3 and Gauntlets of Ogre Power. Also don't rely on the vault in the Gargath Outpost. Its content gets replaced by some fixed stuff from time to time, so all the stored items are lost when that happens. I remember DKK to contain a higher-than-average amount of bugs, but I never bothered to make a list.

And does anyone happen to have notes from playthroughs with approximate lvls of party members when doing Kalistes Land, Moander etc.?

You might want to have a look at some of my more recent postings, where I made progress reports on my Pools campaign at various stages. But keep in mind that I imported from Secret (higher average party XP at the beginning of Pools), and have a highly dual-classed party.

Re: Arcam. I entered the Beholder Caves rather early, to get the Silver Shield +3 that's available there. If one manages to get to location 4 from the Clue Book there before starting a fight in the Chamber of the Chancellor, the game gives a short summary of some of the accomplishments the player has achieved so far, which I find to be a very nice touch.

Apropos Silver Shields +3. "Thanks" to the Gold Boxes' rather annoying way to treat re-joining NPCs, one can get multiple copies (without manual duping) of Traned's Silver Shield +3 in the Drow dungeons below Zhentil Keep. There are multiple occasions where Traned might leave and later rejoin the party, and each time her inventory gets reset to her default items, which of course also means that she loses all items the player might have given to her.

One easy way to have a player-controlled (needs a Paladin in the party) NPC to commit suicide (at least to unconsciousness) in battle is by unequipping armor, then repeatedly entering and leaving melee range of enemies, then undoing all movement (but keeping the damage) by hiting ESC and repeat as necessary.

An NPC that behaves this dopily doesn't deserve to keep its stuff.

The game's not as open as Pool, but it's close.

We might need a way to measure "openness" of a game to actually compare it.

Since I guess most newcomers to Pools don't really know what they're supposed to do after leaving Phlan, and are immediately confronted with a (note: not "the" ) worldmap, I'd argue that the combination of openness + lack of directions even beats Pool. And then, compared to most other Gold Boxes, Pools doesn't have lame menu towns, if you don't count Limbo.

 

[octavius]

There's nothing lame about menu towns. At least if the alternative is big cities with nothing in them to disover.

 

[Ruhfuss]

I agree partially. Both alternatives are shit.

EDIT:

I didn't have a problem with COK's menu outposts. When I wrote "lame" I think I was mentally comparing Pools to DQK. The menu towns in DQK seemed very lame to me. I felt cheated, because I expected content back then. I also didn't like the menu towns in Curse, which I played decades after DQK for the first time, where you also had to remember which one had a Hall and the likes.

 

[Null Null]

We might need a way to measure "openness" of a game to actually compare it.

It's a subjective judgement of course, but just for laughs you could use the number of possible game orders--for example Curse with its 3 main quests can be played in any of 6 ways (6=3!), whereas DQK is basically a railroad from what I remember. Pool had about 20 quests, which gives you 2 quintillion ways to finish the game.

Some orders are much more difficult though--the CRPG addict tried to finish Zhentil Keep first and you remember how that went. Of course one of the things unique about Pool was that you could actually finish the quests in different ways--you could talk to the old lizardman and fight a solo duel or go down the stairs and exterminate the lizardmen (and get their shields +2), you could fight nomads, kobolds, or both, you could bash open the box and get Cadorna pissed at you, be a goody two-shoes and hand it over, or get the thieves to rob it for you, and so on. I guess if you really wanted to you could multiply those in.

 

[Wayward Son]

Even without those added methods, 20! is 2.4329EE18 possible ways to complete the game, as far as orders goes.