Space 4X Conventions

[Norfleet]

Realistic (TM) space ships are not impossible to board - they have pretty definitive trajectories. Fast speeds, but you just need a proper computer or enough math to calculate the numbers and physics for you. Airplanes can move and jink pretty easy, spaceships are pretty much trains, if somewhat capable of changing trajectories within a certain limit, depending on their delta V.

I'm not talking about things that are cooperative. Cooperative things are relatively easy to board. I'm talking about a thing that is actively resisting your attempts to get on it. You can't "calculate the numbers and physics" if the target may arbitrarily fire its thrusters at any moment, probably the moment least helpful to you. This isn't a thing that's easy to calculate, it's a thing that may suddenly thrust unpredictably without warning, resulting in outcomes like "you being incinerated by a blast of rocket fire" or "you crashing into the target at hundreds of miles an hour" or, at best, "you missing by many meters or even kilometers".

There's also the case for law enforcement agencies having a marine corps to board criminal ships that are carrying hostages, because if you want to rescue them you can't just let them die from heat after blowing off the radiators.

Yeah, but in order to attempt it at ALL, you have to blow off their engines. If they are still capable of moving, you ain't getting on board.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

dude. grapples.
also you seem to miss the concept of relative speeds and absence of atmosphere and a gravity field to fight.

 

[RhodokMasterRaceOfficial]

If they are still capable of moving, you ain't getting on board.

I wasn't really disputing that, at least not for military scenarios.

One thing you seem to gloss over is the civilian vs piracy aspect of it where civilian pilots probably aren't disciplined enough to constantly be keeping up the kind of repeated erratic movements that you need to be doing in order to deflect a boarding attempt. Civilian vessels are usually also going to be lightly armed and armoured and probably don't have the weaponry to actively resist piracy in the most permanent way you can do it (depending on the legal regulations regarding civilian ship armament). Piracy is probably the only time you'll see boarding actions against active ships, since they need to do it quickly before patrol craft can respond. It's also a huge benefit if they're able to take control of the freighter without disabling it, because they can fly it back to Tortuga or whatever on its own power instead of having to tow the thing or waste time transferring the cargo to their main raiding ship when the Feds are breathing down their necks.

 

[Norfleet]

dude. grapples.

It's not a sailing ship. You're not going to have any kind of grapple of sufficient strength to withstand spacegoing levels of power. You can get away with that MAYBE against the kind of pansyass chemrockets we presently use, but against anything capable of generating meaningful, "going somewhere" levels of thrust, it ain't happening.

One thing you seem to gloss over is the civilian vs piracy aspect of it where civilian pilots probably aren't disciplined enough to constantly be keeping up the kind of repeated erratic movements that you need to be doing in order to deflect a boarding attempt. Civilian vessels are usually also going to be lightly armed and armoured and probably don't have the weaponry to actively resist piracy in the most permanent way you can do it (depending on the legal regulations regarding civilian ship armament). Piracy is probably the only time you'll see boarding actions against active ships, since they need to do it quickly before patrol craft can respond. It's also a huge benefit if they're able to take control of the freighter without disabling it, because they can fly it back to Tortuga or whatever on its own power instead of having to tow the thing or waste time transferring the cargo to their main raiding ship when the Feds are breathing down their necks.

Pirates, realistically, don't need to board hostile ships at all, and they certainly aren't interested in cargo. Pirates TODAY aren't interested in cargo. What possible kind of space cargo would be worth jacking? Mineral ores? 3D Printed Chinese Crap? No, pirates want ransoms. The ideal target of a pirate is therefore some kind of passenger liner. A pirate, therefore, can jack a ship, quite likely without boarding it, simply by pointing a weapon at the ship and demanding cooperation under threat of destruction. It may not ever actually be necessary to board the ship at all: They're your hostages even without ever having to go over there, and they certainly aren't going to jump overboard and spacewalk away, so you don't need to confine them to anything. You point your guns at the ship, demand that the ship come with you, or not, since you might very well be able to ransom them in-place, and your work is done.

Even a civilian ship would be basically impossible to board if it were resisting. You can't even board a contemporary spacecraft that doesn't want to be boarded. Far easier to just threaten them to achieve compliance.

 

[Ventessel]

It's not a sailing ship. You're not going to have any kind of grapple of sufficient strength to withstand spacegoing levels of power. You can get away with that MAYBE against the kind of pansyass chemrockets we presently use, but against anything capable of generating meaningful, "going somewhere" levels of thrust, it ain't happening.


Pirates, realistically, don't need to board hostile ships at all, and they certainly aren't interested in cargo. Pirates TODAY aren't interested in cargo. What possible kind of space cargo would be worth jacking? Mineral ores? 3D Printed Chinese Crap? No, pirates want ransoms. The ideal target of a pirate is therefore some kind of passenger liner. A pirate, therefore, can jack a ship, quite likely without boarding it, simply by pointing a weapon at the ship and demanding cooperation under threat of destruction. It may not ever actually be necessary to board the ship at all: They're your hostages even without ever having to go over there, and they certainly aren't going to jump overboard and spacewalk away, so you don't need to confine them to anything. You point your guns at the ship, demand that the ship come with you, or not, since you might very well be able to ransom them in-place, and your work is done.

Even a civilian ship would be basically impossible to board if it were resisting. You can't even board a contemporary spacecraft that doesn't want to be boarded. Far easier to just threaten them to achieve compliance.

Ok, you are completely and utterly wrong. Pirates today, particularly of the variety that frequent the Horn of Africa are not interested in hostages. Sometimes hostages are taken but that is really a side note. The cargo of these ships is extremely valuable, particularly of tankers but also container ships. These ships are hijacked and taken back to a location the pirates control because they know that they can ransom the CARGO back to the owning company more easily than they could resell the cargo illicit (as pirates used to do during the eras when nations would turn a blind eye to piracy carried out against enemy nations, if they didn't outright endorse such piracy - i.e. Barbary States, European privateers, etc.)

Back to this idea of a freighter evading boarding via sudden changes in direction of travel. It's stupid.

A large freighter carrying an amount of cargo worth transporting between planets is going to be dramatically less maneuverable for reasons of inertia than a smaller pirate vessel. And if the pirate vessel can maneuver with more agility and precision than their target, they can eventually get close enough to attach some form of grapple or docking clamp and force their way aboard. They would most likely employ a small fleet of boarding craft deployed from a mothership with the intention of capturing and hijacking the freighter to either resell the cargo or ransom it back to the owning company. The crew might be retained as hostages, or simply set adrift in the lifeboats because they are more of a liability than the cargo.

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[whatevername]

What possible kind of space cargo would be worth jacking? Mineral ores? 3D Printed Chinese Crap? No, pirates want ransoms.

10,000,000 gallons of water being transported to Mars/elsewhere.

 

[GarfunkeL]

There is nothing inherently wrong with space lanes. As said, they bring structure to an otherwise chaotic system. As long as there is a consistent mechanic behind them. Another alternative are strict fuel ranges from nearest friendly colony/depot. So that the player can estimate his/her own ranges as well as whether alien empires are capable of penetration.

 

[Turtle-Zone 3000]

All this talk of space pirates reminds me of Charles Stross' thoughts on pirates in an FTL setting.
http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2010/09/books-i-will-not-write-4-escha.html