Development Info South Park: The Stick of Truth delayed

[Grunker]

The Assumption Thread: Assumpception: The Assumptioning

 

[Grunker]

only because of the goodwill of other studios giving them projects

 

[Spectacle]

If Obsidian were utterly desperate for another project to keep the company running then I doubt they would have spared any resources to do a kickstarter campaign, they would set everyone who wasn't busy on South Park to work on publisher pitches to do another AAA or at least AA game. 3 million of kickstarter money just isn't enough to matter if Obsidan doesn't have the big projects they need to stay afloat.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

only because of the goodwill of other studios giving them projects

I'm not sure what you're lol'ing? They've said as much:

@1:36 - [LucasArts Guy] So our decision to go with Obsidian actually came from discussions we were having with BioWare and Ray and Greg specifically. Our President was talking with them about who we can work with and what team is available. We all knew Feargus from the work he'd done at Black-Isle. Ray and Greg had obviously worked with those guys on Baldur's Gate, the Ice-wind Dale series and it was a high recommendation that the BioWare team gave of Feargus and his team.​

Fallout: New Vegas: "Bethesda approached Obsidian to work on the title."

Goodwill: "Goodwill is an accounting concept meaning the value of an asset owned that is intangible but has a quantifiable 'prudent value' in a business, for example a reputation the firm enjoyed with its clients."

Both BioWare and Bethesda could've said "Fuck it, we'll do it ourselves". Now it's notable that they didn't and did in fact recommend or seek out Obsidian, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't a bit of "friends looking after friends", certainly on BioWare's part - They're all game developers and they know how tough the industry is when you don't have a project. (on Bethesda's part I think it was more of a "Let's see what the original developers can do..." and maybe even maliciously getting them onboard making a Bethesda style RPG so Bethesda can rub it into all their critics and say "See, we made your beloved isometric Fallout devs sell-out and work on an FPS!", mostly because Bethesda are evil and I know they think that way).

If Obsidian were utterly desperate for another project...

I think you under-estimate just how how desperate, "utterly desperate" is.

3 million of kickstarter money just isn't enough to matter if Obsidan doesn't have the big projects they need to stay afloat.

You're right, it's not.

I don't know, they are probably constantly pitching stuff to publishers.

Well, Chris Avellone has indicated as much. "We’re still working on two projects: South Park, and a team focused on pitching our second project that we put on hold for North Carolina." If they don't have projects, they pitch. And North Carolina's cancellation put Obsidian financially in the shits:

Our tipster has confirmed that it was indeed Project North Carolina that was cancelled, and that the devastating news comes after "the owners weren't paid for 6-7 months" and "401k matching was halted" for employees.​

401k matching is the first thing to go when companies start to run out of cash, and in this case coming after Avellone and Urquhart and co. stopped paying themselves. I'm not making this shit up when I say I think Obsidian are on a financial tight-rope.

Also, we don't know if Obsidian approached the big companies (more likely), or the other way around.

See above. And of course, we know Matt & Trey sought out Obsidian for South Park. I believe Alpha Protocol is the only difference - where Obsidian approached SEGA and sought a publisher. Unfortunately, that game didn't work out so well, with poor sales - which I think may have damaged their reputation some-what. Plus a lot of the publishers right now, other than the few big ones, are in the financial shits themselves.

 

[Menckenstein]

PE will never see the light of day because Obsidian will close their doors after South Park is canceled or handed to another publisher who will finish it internally.

May we never see an Alpha Protocol sequel.

 

[Grunker]

I'm not sure what you're lol'ing? They've said as much:

@1:36 - [LucasArts Guy] So our decision to go with Obsidian actually came from discussions we were having with BioWare and Ray and Greg specifically. Our President was talking with them about who we can work with and what team is available. We all knew Feargus from the work he'd done at Black-Isle. Ray and Greg had obviously worked with those guys on Baldur's Gate, the Ice-wind Dale series and it was a high recommendation that the BioWare team gave of Feargus and his team.

Fallout: New Vegas: "Bethesda approached Obsidian to work on the title."

Goodwill: "Goodwill is an accounting concept meaning the value of an asset owned that is intangible but has a quantifiable 'prudent value' in a business, for example a reputation the firm enjoyed with its clients."

Both BioWare and Bethesda could've said "Fuck it, we'll do it ourselves". Now it's notable that they didn't and did in fact recommend or seek out Obsidian, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't a bit of "friends looking after friends", certainly on BioWare's part - They're all game developers and they know how tough the industry is when you don't have a project. (on Bethesda's part I think it was more of a "Let's see what the original developers can do..." and maybe even maliciously getting them onboard making a Bethesda style RPG so Bethesda can rub it into all their critics and say "See, we made your beloved isometric Fallout devs sell-out and work on an FPS!", mostly because Bethesda are evil and I know they think that way).

All your links imply these companies thought Obsidian would do a good job which might as well be why Obs were hired. Saying "goodwill did it" implies these companies came to Obsidian because they knew Obs needed help or something like that, not because they liked Obsidian for the job.

But fuck you man, I'm not going to be drawn into this debate of endless assumptions! I don't like Obsidian enough to defend them and I don't hate them enough to attack them. I just thought it was funny the debate had gotten so far out you were actually claiming professional businesses in an economic crisis gave jobs to another company out of "goodwill."

I think

You think a lot bro. As does J_C. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Dhralei]

Yikes, so much posturing, assuming, claiming, thinking, pulling out of the assing, pure entitlement and all around good fun to be had in this thread.

Anyone think it might be a good idea to just chill, take a step back and realise that in the end there's a mighty big chance that a lot of the tomfoolery being thrown about here might end up being nothing but hot air? Why not wait and see what happens?...

On the other hand...reading all of the drama is quite entertaining, so carry on

 

[Brother None]

I think you misinterpreted DU's use of "goodwill" Grunker, he does in fact mean it is a case of industry reputation and recommendations, not of pity. That's what goodwill means in an industry context. Feargus may not have the best reputation among RPG fans but I've heard numerous time from industry guys that he has a sterling reputation as one of the most reliable RPG "slam-dunk" producers around. That's exactly why several studios went to Obsidian with an engine in hand and said "make a sequel to this", because they know they can trust Feargus with it. Results have been a bit uneven but I would think New Vegas did a lot to restore their reputation. Publishers also see the "bugsidian" part of it though, and while they don't actually really care about bugs as long as people don't talk about them (see: Bethesda), if a studio has a reputation for buggy releases that becomes a problem.

That's just drawing up the context. It's not an easy time in the industry right now and I'm not sure from where Obsidian is supposed to draw funding right now. Maybe they can use the old excellent relations Interplay & Blizzard had, factoring in Leonard is pretty high up the Blizzard totem pole though not a decision maker, and get ActiBlizz interested? ActiBliz is pretty much the Last Man Standing in the current onslaught of publisher dismay.

 

[Grunker]

It makes no sense to state

only out of goodwill

if what you say is true. I guess you couuuld make the case that there is a difference between your definition of good will and provided results, but that only goes for the first dev to contact Obsidian about sequels. The second, and definetely the third, know by now what to expect, so they are certainly contacting Obs for other reasons than a glass-like reputation.

As I said, I don't want to get drawn into this sounding like I'm defending Obs, since I mainly have disdain for most of their games, and also as I previous stated, I find this entire debate tiresome. Neither side has much foundation to speak like they do.

 

[Infinitron]

That's just drawing up the context. It's not an easy time in the industry right now and I'm not sure from where Obsidian is supposed to draw funding right now. Maybe they can use the old excellent relations Interplay & Blizzard had, factoring in Leonard is pretty high up the Blizzard totem pole though not a decision maker, and get ActiBlizz interested? ActiBliz is pretty much the Last Man Standing in the current onslaught of publisher dismay.

in before Diablo: New Tristram

 

[almondblight]

Young, ambitious developers *have to* put something substantial other than a bunch of promises. FTL guys did present their concepts and this allowed them to develop their project. Why should Obsidian, a much larger studio with "professional" designers and planners be excused? I mean I know that due to the scope of the project they cannot prepare an alpha version. But since they have all those people and magical "possibly millions" in their coffers why they cannot be bothered with a bloody vision document? Don't you think something's clearly wrong here?

Obsidian does that because they can. More info would have been nice, but so far they've been one of the better projects in terms of updates and interaction. We'll have to see if that continues.

But there are plenty of people out there going about this another way. Prison Architect has been very successful with alpha funding, and I think Overgrowth and Starfarer have also done nicely. Mysterious Castle is kind of alpha funding. AoD's been successful with pre-orders. Chaos Chronicles and Divinity OS are going the old fashion route. Gareth's releasing a trading card game as a way of making money for future RPG projects.

That's just to say, if you don't like the model of some Kickstarter projects, put your money elsewhere, and let the developer know. There are plenty of good models being used right now, you might as well support the ones you like.

 

[Jaesun]

I think monkeys will fly out of my ass before we see a Activision published game by Obsidian.

 

[Metro]

I think monkeys will fly out of my ass ...

Don't go all Richard Gere on us.

 

[Roguey]

That's the problem. Their buggy games have nothing to do with bad financial management. They had a bad QA team, that's certain. They admitted this themselves when they sad in an interview that they had a very small QA team.

You misunderstood, they have a small QA team because the publishers are responsible for the vast bulk of it. Obsidian bugs are usually the result of rushed schedules. Poor planning can be a part of that, since they have promised to do too much given what they can realistically do.

But the publisher QA didn't do a good job either.

Possibly, but I'm sure the were instrumental in squashing hundreds of bugs before the gold master. The problem with these things is that there are still hundreds more to go and they can't get them all before their non-negotiable ship date.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

I think monkeys will fly out of my ass before we see a Activision published game by Obsidian.

You...put...monkeys inside your ass? And they're happy in there?

 

[Jaesun]

ItIsAMystery.jpg

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

sadassmonkeys.com

 

[PlanHex]

Buttmonkey?

 

[DwarvenFood]

... And so it came to be, 15 years from now, that we discovered MCA's original letter announcing the disbandment of Obsidian and him leaving the gaming industry. It was posted in the legendary "Why did Obsidian go bankrupt ?" thread, started mid 2013 by DarkUnderlord.

MCA himself was amused to find this old, printed with obsolete LaserJet technology, letter of his pop up at E-Bay. Apparently, some antiquary based in Orange County CA bought up the leftovers of Obsidians inventory, long thought to be lost or shredded. Turns out, they even failed at failing.

The inevitable Codexian fund-drive will be glorious.