Sonic Mania - "Sega does what Bethesdon't."

[Tehdagah]

Ah, the original sonic, one of those few precious games that made you actually NOT want to go fast since it was so damn claustraphobic

Yep, Sonic makes no sense. Want to play fast? Sorry, you will end throwing yourself into a pit. The game only allows the player to go fast in pre-determined on-rails segments where the player's input is near to zero. Everything else plays like an average platformer. It worked back then because at least it was visually impressive. But today? Why would I care about "blast processing"?

Looks like a rehash of the Genesis games.

In other words:

Looks a million times better than the crap they've been putting out since Sonic went 3D.

By the way, this isn't even the first time Sega tried to go back to the older games to recover what made Sonic great (probably like 3rd or 4th time). This makes me a bit worried, but the video looked nice enough (even if the music was rather annoying).

The irony is that Sonic (theoretically) works better in 3D, since it allows the player to see all obstacles in advance and react accordingly.

 

[The Decline]

The irony is that Sonic (theoretically) works better in 3D, since it allows the player to see all obstacles in advance.

Which would be great if they could get a decent team together that focused on developing good gameplay instead of trying to shoehorn in cinematic story crap.

 

[Alex]

Ah, the original sonic, one of those few precious games that made you actually NOT want to go fast since it was so damn claustraphobic

Yep, Sonic makes no sense. Want to play fast? Sorry, you will end throwing yourself into a pit. The game only allows the player to go fast in pre-determined on-rails segments where the player's input is near to zero. Everything else plays like an average platformer. It worked back then because at least it was visually impressive. But today? Why would I care about "blast processing"?

I disagree in that it was an average platformer. I think it was a pretty good one, though on the easy side.

Looks like a rehash of the Genesis games.

In other words:

Looks a million times better than the crap they've been putting out since Sonic went 3D.

By the way, this isn't even the first time Sega tried to go back to the older games to recover what made Sonic great (probably like 3rd or 4th time). This makes me a bit worried, but the video looked nice enough (even if the music was rather annoying).

The irony is that Sonic (theoretically) works better in 3D, since it allows the player to see all obstacles in advance and react accordingly.

Well, you could make that work in 2D too. Nowadays it wouldn't be too much of a resource hog to "zoom out" depending on Sonic's speed, although that might be a bit too different from the older games for this project.

 

[Drowed]

Well, you could make that work in 2D too. Nowadays it wouldn't be too much of a resource hog to "zoom out" depending on Sonic's speed, although that might be a bit too different from the older games for this project.

You don't even need to zoom out. The game is widescreen now, wich helps a lot since you can see more of the level. Also, in Sonic Megamix they found a simple solution: when Sonic reaches a certain speed, the screen moves to the side to which Sonic is running to, increasing the field of view of what's comming next:

As several members of the group who created this hack are involved in the production of Sonic World, it surprises me that they haven't taken advantage of this idea. Maybe they thought that the fact that the game is in widescreen is enough?

 

[Alex]

Well, you could make that work in 2D too. Nowadays it wouldn't be too much of a resource hog to "zoom out" depending on Sonic's speed, although that might be a bit too different from the older games for this project.

You don't even need to zoom out. The game is widescreen now, wich helps a lot since you can see more of the level. Also, in Sonic Megamix they found a simple solution: when Sonic reaches a certain speed, the screen moves to the side to which Sonic is running to, increasing the field of view of what's comming next:

As several members of the group who created this hack are involved in the production of Sonic World, it surprises me that they haven't taken advantage of this idea. Maybe they thought that the fact that the game is in widescreen is enough?

I am just checking the page and I have to ask. I can understand putting shadow in (it is annoying, but I can understand). But why the hell include Mighty? I mean, even amy would make more sense as far as fan appeal goes. Does mighty have any kind of special abilities (I've never played Chaotix) that might justify this?

 

[Siveon]

But why the hell include Mighty? I mean, even amy would make more sense as far as fan appeal goes. Does mighty have any kind of special abilities (I've never played Chaotix) that might justify this?

If you scroll further down, you'll notice Mighty has the longest explanation of his controls. I'm guessing the team really liked the idea of his character, and just sorta stuck him in.

Mighty's gameplay is primarily centered around the different shield powerups you can obtain in the game. He has the ability to store up to four different shields in his shield inventory, displayed in the bottom right corner of the screen. Switching shields in mid-air allows you to chain various shield moves together. Use it to your advantage!

OT: I thought the first Sonic game was pretty bad, and I never really got further with the other ones I've played (Advance, Adventure, Heroes). I don't think I've ever seen the appeal, even as a child.

 

[Drowed]

I cannot speak for others, but for me, when I was a kid, what amused me the most in the game was the speed and the "weight" of Sonic. The way you gain speed when you learn how to use the terrain, the inertia of the game, I think. After you play each stage several times, you can complete them in absurd speeds:



(Oh, and the game was really beautiful. I mean, Super Mario World looks nice, I guess? But at that time, the amount of detail, color and everything else blew my mind.)

The gameplay is just fun, no other way to say it. But here we end up walking into the old question of the "subjective nature of the taste", and we all know where this is going.

 

[ultimanecat]

Yeah, to each his own, but early Sonic games were pretty unique in that Sonic had momentum which could be utilized and could change his physics to that of a rolling ball at will. Pretty neat stuff and it added quite a bit of depth that didn't show up in all the other mascot platformers it spawned.

 

[HoboForEternity]

coldsteel the hedgehog

 

[Hobo Elf]

I cannot speak for others, but for me, when I was a kid, what amused me the most in the game was the speed and the "weight" of Sonic. The way you gain speed when you learn how to use the terrain, the inertia of the game, I think. After you play each stage several times, you can complete them in absurd speeds:

This. People complaining about Sonic not being fast enough ITT just don't understand that the speed wasn't something that was given to you like it is in those god fucking awful 3D games, it's something that you earned by learning the levels and how to play the game.

 

[Higher Animal]

I think Sonic was a pretty radical departure from typical platforming games out of the Mario mold. I think the series flipped precision platforming on its head, promoting playful experimentation over tight mechanics. People who don't like Sonic want to label it as a failure in the latter department, not playing the right way. It reminds me of the early criticisms of the souls series, namely that it was too hard to get into, that enemies were too cheap, and I'd rather be playing Ninja Gaiden or Zelda.

One thing the "Sonic is no good" crowd has done is inspire a series of retrospectives that have reanalyzed the game in the wake of history, and I think the Sonic series comes out as even more important and innovative than they were considered in the 1990's.

 

[Tehdagah]

I cannot speak for others, but for me, when I was a kid, what amused me the most in the game was the speed and the "weight" of Sonic. The way you gain speed when you learn how to use the terrain, the inertia of the game, I think. After you play each stage several times, you can complete them in absurd speeds:



(Oh, and the game was really beautiful. I mean, Super Mario World looks nice, I guess? But at that time, the amount of detail, color and everything else blew my mind.)

The gameplay is just fun, no other way to say it. But here we end up walking into the old question of the "subjective nature of the taste", and we all know where this is going.

This. People complaining about Sonic not being fast enough ITT just don't understand that the speed wasn't something that was given to you like it is in those god fucking awful 3D games, it's something that you earned by learning the levels and how to play the game.

And why can't Sonic be fast from the get go? "Learning the levels" simply means memorizing every inch of them, this is tedious rather than stimulating (and it doesn't help that the levels lack visual hotspots). Also, in Sonic's case, finishing the levels as fast as possible is more a self-imposed challenge rather than an in-game objective.

 

[Hobo Elf]

And why can't Sonic be fast from the get go? "Learning the levels" simply means memorizing every inch of them, this is tedious rather than stimulating (and it doesn't help that the levels lack visual hotspots). Also, in Sonic's case, finishing the levels as fast as possible is more a self-imposed challenge rather than an in-game objective.

Because Sonic is a platformer and platformers really can't be that fast paced, not when you are playing them for the first time at least. Otherwise the game is dead shit and easy. Just like the 3D Sonic games.

 

[Alex]

I cannot speak for others, but for me, when I was a kid, what amused me the most in the game was the speed and the "weight" of Sonic. The way you gain speed when you learn how to use the terrain, the inertia of the game, I think. After you play each stage several times, you can complete them in absurd speeds:



(Oh, and the game was really beautiful. I mean, Super Mario World looks nice, I guess? But at that time, the amount of detail, color and everything else blew my mind.)

The gameplay is just fun, no other way to say it. But here we end up walking into the old question of the "subjective nature of the taste", and we all know where this is going.

This. People complaining about Sonic not being fast enough ITT just don't understand that the speed wasn't something that was given to you like it is in those god fucking awful 3D games, it's something that you earned by learning the levels and how to play the game.

And why can't Sonic be fast from the get go? "Learning the levels" simply means memorizing every inch of them, this is tedious rather than stimulating (and it doesn't help that the levels lack visual hotspots).

I can understand that you don't like the idea of learning how the level works. That is ok. But being fast from the get go is missing the point. The point is that the kids who liked sonic liked to replay it many times. The game was built for that with many different secret passages and bonuses such as being able to go fast for those who choose to keep exploring and understanding the levels. For us (or at least some of us) who liked this, that was the point, not a toll to pay to be able to go fast.

Also, in Sonic's case, finishing the levels as fast as possible is more a self-imposed challenge rather than an in-game objective.

Sure, but so what? I mean, a whole lot in sonic is self imposed. Can you explore as much of the level as possible? Can you finish with the most rings, in the shortest time, with the most points, etc. Don't get me wrong, if you actually make these things matter, maybe you could get a pretty impressive game, but it is ok for them to be self-imposed.

 

[Higher Animal]

And why can't Sonic be fast from the get go? "Learning the levels" simply means memorizing every inch of them, this is tedious rather than stimulating (and it doesn't help that the levels lack visual hotspots). Also, in Sonic's case, finishing the levels as fast as possible is more a self-imposed challenge rather than an in-game objective.

Again, Sonic is not a traditional platformer. There's a lot more player agency in a Sonic game than your typical 16 bit platformer. Avoiding obstacles on a first run is usually due to map design, where obstacles slow before presenting traps and dangers. Maybe 2% of each sonic game is first time unavoidable obstacles, but the game is forgiving for precisely that reason.

As Alex and and others have said, the main point of the game is to experiment with the game's physics, of which avoiding obstacles at high speeds is just one component of the game. To master the physics system requires a familiarity with the levels, but the "mastery" part is more about understanding the nature of movement and timing rather than locations, meaning that it's a very intuitive and experimental approach to mastery, unlike simple precision jumping in the Mario games. Additionally, the different physics and large map size mean that locations are more than simple inputs. There is more to explore and play in a Sonic level than a Mario one. Most players find this infinitely more interesting (because it's more complex) than traditional platforming rote memorization (like in Mario and Ninja Gaiden).

 

[ManjuShri]

 

[Wayward Son]

Well, I'm hyped.

 

[Edward The Mediocre]

A fucking polygon video

Have you no shame?

 

[Havoc]

A fucking polygon video

Have you no shame?

They still didn't get anybody good to play the game.

 

[LESS T_T]

 

[LESS T_T]

And uh-oh: https://gematsu.com/2017/08/sonic-mania-pc-delayed-august-29

Sonic Mania for PC delayed to August 29

Sega has delayed the PC version of Sonic Mania from its previously planned August 15 release date to August 29 in order to apply further optimizations, Sega announced.

As an apology for delaying the PC release at the last minute, Sega will give away the original Sonic the Hedgehog for free to all users who have pre-purchased Sonic Mania. Users who purchased the collector’s edition will still receive their box on August 15, and the code inside will allow them to claim their copy of Sonic the Hedgehog.

Yeah I'm pretty sure who pre-ordered this game most likely didn't played old Sanic games.

 

[Edward The Mediocre]

Is this related with a moderator on 8chan getting his copy of the game early and streaming it?

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

Refunded my pre-order.

It's not the delay that made me do so, btw. The whole game got leaked on the Switch, and guess what? 8 levels out of 12 come directly from the classic games, graphics, enemies and everything.

What's even the point anymore. Pay $20 to replay a minor variation of some 25+ year old content that everyone's played to death?

Bleh.

 

[Excidium II]

lol what the hell.

 

[Alex]

Well, what I saw of Green Hill Zone and Chemical Plant Zone looked pretty different, so I am still looking forward to it.