Something was lost when combat moved from tell to show

[octavius]

Might&Magic is about exploring.

 

[Juggie]

I kind of expected this response.

For me the problem with M&M 1 and exploration was that it lacked interesting stuff to discover. It's similar to Fallout 3 except it's much more unforgiving. So you'll be doing much more reloading than exploring because the tile you stepped on spawns group of dragons that instakill your whole party before you get to act.

And if you manage to find a location suitable for your party's power level after a while you often don't find anything worthwhile there.

M&M 2 improved this aspect of the game as well. But still it felt like fighting shit for the sake of fighting shit most of the time. Which is fine if you dig the combat system but for me the ratio of interesting to trash fights was very low.

This is derailing the thread and I voiced my opinion enough.

 

[Bustamonte]

Might and magic series is kind of crap. There is no doubt about it there is a lot of filler in the series, it's mostly filler even in most of the games. M&M 6+7 are by far the best in the series.

You map in M&M 1+2 but it is not like it is difficult in any way to 'explore'. There is nothing to really solve either. You just need to get enough strength and manage to go everywhere and then game over.

But the lack of fun and feeling of lethality is more about encounter design here, and also the fact that in M&M you basically immediately get spells like lloyd's beacon so you have this incredible magic ability to whoosh in and out of danger whenever you feel like it. The spells and stuff really don't matter much anyway, there is nothing at all of tactics to the game. You are either strong enough, or not.

 

[octavius]

The Shitposter has spoken again. He's a veritable Cornucopia of Manure.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

In MM2, it's true that you have to grind a bit before being ready to tackle the first dungeon beneath the city, but it's quite fun in fact.

The problem in MM2 is not the grind, it's a pretty smooth ride. The real problem was having to inspect every wall around you to get the clues engraved into them. THAT was really tedious. Still a great game.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

Can't supress this message in Tapatalk, getting really old and dumb.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

If I can give all benefit of the doubt and interpret the Ops view, he wants combat quick and deadly and he wants animation to be little or so fast as to alleviate any perceivable trace of misspent time. That way he doesn't go full rain man late for Jeopardy.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

It's a valid position, and rationally, it is right. Combat described only by text is by essence faster than lots of fireworks on display.
But then, he forgot about the general design of the encounters and what surrounds them. Time flies when you're having fun.

 

[Bustamonte]

The Shitposter has spoken again. He's a veritable Cornucopia of Manure.

You must be talking about yourself. Should make that your signature.

Also note, this is not your thread. It's just a thread you have defaced with constant idiocy and insult. You are welcome to get the fuck out and indeed anyone with half a brain would have gotten the hint a long time ago.

 

[Bustamonte]

If I can give all benefit of the doubt and interpret the Ops view, he wants combat quick and deadly and he wants animation to be little or so fast as to alleviate any perceivable trace of misspent time. That way he doesn't go full rain man late for Jeopardy.

I never said that's how everything should be, but it can really work well in a game. It's certainly better than some long dull and pointless combat which is essentially the same thing as Bard's Tale but drug out for a huge amount of time.

 

[J1M]

Bustamonte, the correctness of your thread's premise is self-evident. It is unfortunate that the neogaf defense force showed up to shit all over the place. As we've seen, there isn't much discussion to be had around the theory's correctness. Let's instead shift commentary towards implications and remedies.

Longer games that are less engaging are some of the implications already mentioned.

Some potential remedies:

-Find a way to 'tell' with graphics. Don't disrupt the art or marketing departments, and find a better use of the fancy assets with a gameplay design change.

-Find a way to 'sell the tell' and make a game that tells perceived as more desirable instead of lacking something.

-Find something better than 'show' or 'tell'. A door number 3.

-Compromise between the two at a point where show interferes an acceptable amount.

-Invent a new method of combat resolution that prioritizes the 'tell' concept. This could lead to a new sub-genre.

 

[Bustamonte]

Bustamonte, the correctness of your thread's premise is self-evident. It is unfortunate that the neogaf defense force showed up to shit all over the place. As we've seen, there isn't much discussion to be had around the theory's correctness. Let's instead shift commentary towards implications and remedies.

Longer games that are less engaging are some of the implications already mentioned.

Some potential remedies:

-Find a way to 'tell' with graphics. Don't disrupt the art or marketing departments, and find a better use of the fancy assets with a gameplay design change.

-Find a way to 'sell the tell' and make a game that tells perceived as more desirable instead of lacking something.

-Find something better than 'show' or 'tell'. A door number 3.

-Compromise between the two at a point where show interferes an acceptable amount.

-Invent a new method of combat resolution that prioritizes the 'tell' concept. This could lead to a new sub-genre.

Great post.

I am not sure how to fix it, but I tried playing thea: the awakening and it really struck me how their combat was just a bunch of meaningless nonsense. Basically like a ton of distraction to keep you from realizing that in reality everything was dead simple.

Now if you had the same fights knocking them off bam bam bam, then spent more time on resources and management then it would be good. Or if the game system itself was more complex then it would pay off.

Bard's tale for example was not super complicated like some RPGs but the leveling system and spells were interesting enough to make you care about them. Leveling up is not simply +1 to something or other. It's deeper than that.

I think those kind of mechanics are a large part of what makes me enjoy RPGs and strategy games. Now of course, they want to be so :inclusive: that they don't want any path of failure. Which is very necessary to these games to make paying attention and caring actually pay off.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I liked MM7&8 more than 6, but that's probably because they felt closer to HoMM. MM6 isn't bad, but I just can't be assed to finish it, ever.