Retinue
Novice
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2012
- Messages
- 20
Note: I apologize if I misused the term wrong. I didn't do any search. Just read a couple of topics. I've only encountered two terms I didn't understand thus far. C&C and Storyfag. Since the topics I read were writing related, I assume storyfag are about gamers who obscenely play games for their story sometimes even opting out of appreciating a game for their gameplay.
Being a writer in a software industry aside (as that has been discussed), some things I don't understand are:
1. How come even for an elitist fanbase people tend to flock towards more mainstream (in a hardcore sense) games?
I've even read one who praised Aeris' death and KOTOR's revelation about Revan. This is not to say their tastes are wrong and true enough in any popular forum there's a level of disparity leaning towards popular hardcore games. (Anything from Fallout 2 below probably counts) but one thing I found most interesting about games with their story is that it seems if you're not in a game centric forum, people rarely discuss much less impart the story's beauty at all.
Isn't it weird? The games' lore is often what drives the interest for Storyfag who prefer CRPGs or CRPG-lite but if you want to hear about the intricacies of theories and details for why a story is great, it doesn't transfer at all. It's as if even the anonymous internet is sensitive towards imparting their own theories about a set of rarely spoken of games unless it is a plot that everyone knows already. Movie forums have the same problem but it is possible to go to something like IMDB, find the movie, and discover intricacies of what a movie was all about. Even in game centric forums like Gamefaqs, there's a constant struggle to keep Story Faqs stickied and very few people talk about them.
2. It's human nature to let the hate flow more than the love, but how come even for an elitist board people don't defend their positions in details.
I read a Witcher thread where some people were claiming that the Witcher's combat system is boring and while it's a gameplay based thread, as a storyfag, it baffles me why people who like stories in their game rarely defend the fact that "in a realistic game world sense" boring automatic QTE fights are more in line with how sword fights work than intricate 1-6 men strategic battles.
All the defenders could say was that at least the story had more gray morals. When in truth, the longest poster, who recommended the Full Combat Rebalance mod got it right: You should try it and even on the easiest setting the Witcher has a more beautiful combat system that is far more strategic and immersive to the story (even if you're a bad gamer like me) than the wreck that is all other games. Even in highly praised niche games from all criterias, it seems once the gameplay becomes interactive and the create a character screen becomes more PnP then storyfags become less storyfags and more "generalplotpraisingfags".
It's so rare to really hear from the opinion of someone who's truly an interactive immersive story desiring fan in any rpg forums. It's rare for movies but it's even rarer for a gaming community that claims to love stories.This in turn makes it less likely for people to discuss about a game's story at all. Horror fans seem to be the exception but even that is reserved for popular niche games like Silent Hill and Resident Evil. Even things like Clock Tower rarely get mentioned.
3. Why do people claim it's easier/more desiring to make better stories for adventure games?
I think it's in a writing related thread that someone said just look at Legacy of Kain.
Well...if this were a movie, Legacy of Kain would be the Harry Potter compared to true jewels like the plot of the original Silent Hill, 1st saga of Clock Tower, Fear Effect and even Akuji the Heartless if we're talking action adventure games with a pseudo horror theme beats Legacy of Kain plot-wise. (Of course as a game, it sucks in comparison)
It just seems like once again, storyfags are not storyfags but...well I'm not sure what they are called in the context of movies but they come off like Matrixfags. People who appreciate the story of a popular movie with pseudo-depth that everyone also praises in the industry but would hold a higher standard to a lesser known but better presented/alluded movie claiming the lack of pandering to pop icons as being what makes the story worse than <insert popular movie>
4. Speaking of this, why do many elitist who love stories claim things like Planescape Torment or insert almost any game mentioned here beyond one thread as having good stories?
At best, they have more original stories (though still not necessarily original). But are they good? They're typical CRPG muck. You're an all powerful being. One way or another despite your choices you're an all powerful being. If you're not an all powerful being at the beginning then by some fantasy cliche (despite all your choices) you're going to be an all powerful being. You're not going to be wiser. Your baby is just an icon. Your guns are hierarchily built and the only sandbox sense you have is that some areas are suicide spots without you're knowing but in the end, you're all going to become characters that could fit any of the level 1 classes in Diablo 2. (Not just in gameplay domination but plot sense)
It's one thing if the above is a rare opinion but it's not. It's a non-existant one. Some critics may have problems with games like Torment but they never go full storyfag. It's like a board of elitists fully pandering to the elitist crowds. Yes there are disagreements but I've yet to read a true storyfag disagreement in ANY of the major gaming forums I've chanced upon and I don't know the little known forums at all.
5. Why do storyfags not have the equivalent of modding communities?
I'm guilty of this too but considering the capabilities many indy groups are able to produce, it's strange that when a small project comes up, writers are still one of the harder finds for a project maker. Maybe I just don't know the IMSDb of videogames but it just seems outside of Wesnoth, many mods still stick to the bread and butter of games.
Only in Wesnoth have I seen a mod subset where there's fantasy, seafaring, sci-fi, alternate fantasy, genre shift all in one place. Yes, it's easier to make mods for a game with less graphics and this is not to say all those stories are quality but wouldn't it be in the interest of the greater storyfag community to debunk this myth that games are no longer in their infancy but that the gaming community itself and their expectations are what makes it more profitable to make infant games even for the hardcore niche? But no...storyfags are part of the problem. It's not just the silent storyfags. Those, like me, are worthless. I can't even make a primitive game. It's the attitude of the vocal minority of storyfags that makes me scratch my head.
Aside from the other alternate names I wrote above, storyfags seem also guilty of:
1. Entertainmentfag - Often praising games of fantasy. As much as entertainment is cool, the interactive element of games (even visual novels) combined with the ramification of not just actions within a game but actions that impact your impression of the story are what makes for the best games. This doesn't mean such games are immediate 10/10 or above 7/10 immediately. It just means that maybe they can fit a 1/10 under a story category. Yet there's two extremes. If a story actually scratches that in a game like say Portal, even critics who love their stories appear to hail it not just put it int the context of a 3/10 or a 4/10.
2. GTAfag - Yes, it's more gameplay based but like I said above, this is how some storyfags come off. If a game appears to have a thievery system or a stat that opens up dialogue choices, it gets praised for it's story. Yet all these mechanics are simply replacing mindless killing with mindless bribing, stealing, coaxing, conning. The Fallout stat system was original, unique and fun and it wrapped it all in one whole package and the post-apocalyptic setting is Geekfest at it best but that doesn't mean that it somehow made for a richer plot or richer world. It's still rags to riches and it's worse than the common rag to riches of generic JRPGs plot-wise primarily because you're sold a character that isn't supposed to be special at the beginning and then ends up special where as JRPGs often do the reverse which is still bad but in a plot sense the characters at least are born with a special destiny not sandbox gropers.
3. StaticScreenFags - Yes FVA is overrated. Even graphics of today are overrated. They're not clear cut prettier and they take more power from your PC which means in-between appreciating the story, you have to tinker with the video settings first but it seems the "graphic whore" storyfag is a rarity if not a total cryptomythology too. Again, being a CRPG-centric community, it can't be helped but it's so hard to find ONE individual forum poster who would say... JRPGs have a better much streamlined buy system while CRPGs have a richer merchant system.
No, "graphic worse" storyfags end up needing to settle for something like the Saga series or the Harvest Moon series to see attempts at merging a Visual Novel interface with a CRPG interface with a JRPG interface overlayed on top of a relationship based interface combined with a Sim interface in order to have an immersive interactive story in their rpgs. In an ideal world, if I don't like it I should make it, but it still irks me that something like Fallout's interface maybe clunky but I haven't heard any vocal storyfag remark on this. It's often gameplayfags that talk about this as if again, we're not just outcasts, we're a total myth.
Many of the above can apply to many subset of the gaming community though. It's why I emphasize existence. If there's only a minority with these opinions that I can read from time to time it wouldn't bother me so much. Yet to insist: It's nearly non-existant from the vocal members. There will always be silence across the internet but you would think a nickname like storyfag would at least imply a very extreme subset of story based gamers who are truly in it for the stories. Not just the plots or the general text. A subset of gamers that are like a different branch of the lorefags who tinker more with how each strands of hair or each piece of derp may or may not truly be derp and what could have been done to create a more exciting story but I simply haven't seen it. Even at best, the great writers appear to focus on one great aspect of the game but it's the gameplay modders who create such story immersive mods like Full Combat Rebalance, Final Fantasy Tactics 1.3, Some BG mods, the Real Weapon Fallout mod (of which I haven't tried), The Wesnoth mods, etc. etc.
Being a writer in a software industry aside (as that has been discussed), some things I don't understand are:
1. How come even for an elitist fanbase people tend to flock towards more mainstream (in a hardcore sense) games?
I've even read one who praised Aeris' death and KOTOR's revelation about Revan. This is not to say their tastes are wrong and true enough in any popular forum there's a level of disparity leaning towards popular hardcore games. (Anything from Fallout 2 below probably counts) but one thing I found most interesting about games with their story is that it seems if you're not in a game centric forum, people rarely discuss much less impart the story's beauty at all.
Isn't it weird? The games' lore is often what drives the interest for Storyfag who prefer CRPGs or CRPG-lite but if you want to hear about the intricacies of theories and details for why a story is great, it doesn't transfer at all. It's as if even the anonymous internet is sensitive towards imparting their own theories about a set of rarely spoken of games unless it is a plot that everyone knows already. Movie forums have the same problem but it is possible to go to something like IMDB, find the movie, and discover intricacies of what a movie was all about. Even in game centric forums like Gamefaqs, there's a constant struggle to keep Story Faqs stickied and very few people talk about them.
2. It's human nature to let the hate flow more than the love, but how come even for an elitist board people don't defend their positions in details.
I read a Witcher thread where some people were claiming that the Witcher's combat system is boring and while it's a gameplay based thread, as a storyfag, it baffles me why people who like stories in their game rarely defend the fact that "in a realistic game world sense" boring automatic QTE fights are more in line with how sword fights work than intricate 1-6 men strategic battles.
All the defenders could say was that at least the story had more gray morals. When in truth, the longest poster, who recommended the Full Combat Rebalance mod got it right: You should try it and even on the easiest setting the Witcher has a more beautiful combat system that is far more strategic and immersive to the story (even if you're a bad gamer like me) than the wreck that is all other games. Even in highly praised niche games from all criterias, it seems once the gameplay becomes interactive and the create a character screen becomes more PnP then storyfags become less storyfags and more "generalplotpraisingfags".
It's so rare to really hear from the opinion of someone who's truly an interactive immersive story desiring fan in any rpg forums. It's rare for movies but it's even rarer for a gaming community that claims to love stories.This in turn makes it less likely for people to discuss about a game's story at all. Horror fans seem to be the exception but even that is reserved for popular niche games like Silent Hill and Resident Evil. Even things like Clock Tower rarely get mentioned.
3. Why do people claim it's easier/more desiring to make better stories for adventure games?
I think it's in a writing related thread that someone said just look at Legacy of Kain.
Well...if this were a movie, Legacy of Kain would be the Harry Potter compared to true jewels like the plot of the original Silent Hill, 1st saga of Clock Tower, Fear Effect and even Akuji the Heartless if we're talking action adventure games with a pseudo horror theme beats Legacy of Kain plot-wise. (Of course as a game, it sucks in comparison)
It just seems like once again, storyfags are not storyfags but...well I'm not sure what they are called in the context of movies but they come off like Matrixfags. People who appreciate the story of a popular movie with pseudo-depth that everyone also praises in the industry but would hold a higher standard to a lesser known but better presented/alluded movie claiming the lack of pandering to pop icons as being what makes the story worse than <insert popular movie>
4. Speaking of this, why do many elitist who love stories claim things like Planescape Torment or insert almost any game mentioned here beyond one thread as having good stories?
At best, they have more original stories (though still not necessarily original). But are they good? They're typical CRPG muck. You're an all powerful being. One way or another despite your choices you're an all powerful being. If you're not an all powerful being at the beginning then by some fantasy cliche (despite all your choices) you're going to be an all powerful being. You're not going to be wiser. Your baby is just an icon. Your guns are hierarchily built and the only sandbox sense you have is that some areas are suicide spots without you're knowing but in the end, you're all going to become characters that could fit any of the level 1 classes in Diablo 2. (Not just in gameplay domination but plot sense)
It's one thing if the above is a rare opinion but it's not. It's a non-existant one. Some critics may have problems with games like Torment but they never go full storyfag. It's like a board of elitists fully pandering to the elitist crowds. Yes there are disagreements but I've yet to read a true storyfag disagreement in ANY of the major gaming forums I've chanced upon and I don't know the little known forums at all.
5. Why do storyfags not have the equivalent of modding communities?
I'm guilty of this too but considering the capabilities many indy groups are able to produce, it's strange that when a small project comes up, writers are still one of the harder finds for a project maker. Maybe I just don't know the IMSDb of videogames but it just seems outside of Wesnoth, many mods still stick to the bread and butter of games.
Only in Wesnoth have I seen a mod subset where there's fantasy, seafaring, sci-fi, alternate fantasy, genre shift all in one place. Yes, it's easier to make mods for a game with less graphics and this is not to say all those stories are quality but wouldn't it be in the interest of the greater storyfag community to debunk this myth that games are no longer in their infancy but that the gaming community itself and their expectations are what makes it more profitable to make infant games even for the hardcore niche? But no...storyfags are part of the problem. It's not just the silent storyfags. Those, like me, are worthless. I can't even make a primitive game. It's the attitude of the vocal minority of storyfags that makes me scratch my head.
Aside from the other alternate names I wrote above, storyfags seem also guilty of:
1. Entertainmentfag - Often praising games of fantasy. As much as entertainment is cool, the interactive element of games (even visual novels) combined with the ramification of not just actions within a game but actions that impact your impression of the story are what makes for the best games. This doesn't mean such games are immediate 10/10 or above 7/10 immediately. It just means that maybe they can fit a 1/10 under a story category. Yet there's two extremes. If a story actually scratches that in a game like say Portal, even critics who love their stories appear to hail it not just put it int the context of a 3/10 or a 4/10.
2. GTAfag - Yes, it's more gameplay based but like I said above, this is how some storyfags come off. If a game appears to have a thievery system or a stat that opens up dialogue choices, it gets praised for it's story. Yet all these mechanics are simply replacing mindless killing with mindless bribing, stealing, coaxing, conning. The Fallout stat system was original, unique and fun and it wrapped it all in one whole package and the post-apocalyptic setting is Geekfest at it best but that doesn't mean that it somehow made for a richer plot or richer world. It's still rags to riches and it's worse than the common rag to riches of generic JRPGs plot-wise primarily because you're sold a character that isn't supposed to be special at the beginning and then ends up special where as JRPGs often do the reverse which is still bad but in a plot sense the characters at least are born with a special destiny not sandbox gropers.
3. StaticScreenFags - Yes FVA is overrated. Even graphics of today are overrated. They're not clear cut prettier and they take more power from your PC which means in-between appreciating the story, you have to tinker with the video settings first but it seems the "graphic whore" storyfag is a rarity if not a total cryptomythology too. Again, being a CRPG-centric community, it can't be helped but it's so hard to find ONE individual forum poster who would say... JRPGs have a better much streamlined buy system while CRPGs have a richer merchant system.
No, "graphic worse" storyfags end up needing to settle for something like the Saga series or the Harvest Moon series to see attempts at merging a Visual Novel interface with a CRPG interface with a JRPG interface overlayed on top of a relationship based interface combined with a Sim interface in order to have an immersive interactive story in their rpgs. In an ideal world, if I don't like it I should make it, but it still irks me that something like Fallout's interface maybe clunky but I haven't heard any vocal storyfag remark on this. It's often gameplayfags that talk about this as if again, we're not just outcasts, we're a total myth.
Many of the above can apply to many subset of the gaming community though. It's why I emphasize existence. If there's only a minority with these opinions that I can read from time to time it wouldn't bother me so much. Yet to insist: It's nearly non-existant from the vocal members. There will always be silence across the internet but you would think a nickname like storyfag would at least imply a very extreme subset of story based gamers who are truly in it for the stories. Not just the plots or the general text. A subset of gamers that are like a different branch of the lorefags who tinker more with how each strands of hair or each piece of derp may or may not truly be derp and what could have been done to create a more exciting story but I simply haven't seen it. Even at best, the great writers appear to focus on one great aspect of the game but it's the gameplay modders who create such story immersive mods like Full Combat Rebalance, Final Fantasy Tactics 1.3, Some BG mods, the Real Weapon Fallout mod (of which I haven't tried), The Wesnoth mods, etc. etc.
