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So why did the war begin?

neuron

Barely Literate
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
2
Dear friends,
It goes without saying that such topic is not spoiler-free.
I can not find much discussion on the general history behind AOD. If such a topic is a tabu, forgive me for my ignorance. But why did the war start?
I think I got the majority of the lore, heck I even browsed through the dialogue xml files, but I am still confused about the mystery of why everything went wrong?
In the nutshell the quantari found the gods, came to the magi and asked them to bring their gods to earth. Magi, driven by knowledge and confidence that they will control these gods brought them to earth, 7 of them. Then the story confuses me. According to the zamedi demon, the quantari betrayed the magi and started the war over gods. But according to the rest of the story the gods just went out of control and they didn't quite agree on the methods to rule the earth. In this version Balzaar and three friends sided with quantari against Agatoth and two friends. The rest is history.
Please correct me on where is my story wrong and what am I missing?

P.S. I have another question. Where did the abyss god go upon release? Why it doesn't affect the story? Why didn't he stay like Balzaar or Agatoth and how was he so powerful right after waking up compared to the main gods?
 

Malakal

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I think the Magi realized they were played by the Quantari and massacred their expedition what triggered the war ie next fleet coming.

Not sure how the aliens survived tho. Since we know they were responsible it should be that they were worshiped by the Quantari but no idea how they survived between the massacre of the expedition and the arrival of the second fleet. Perhaps they somehow escaped to the Quantari continent?

What always interested me more is the tech level before war and how much Magi had and how much they got from aliens, because that seems all over the place.
 

neuron

Barely Literate
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
2
Thank you very much, Malakal!
I think the Magi realized they were played by the Quantari and massacred their expedition what triggered the war ie next fleet coming.
So the quantari knew about the fact that the aliens/gods will go out of control and will start reigning everyone?
Why did Quantari want to be dominated by aliens, were they promised any good life by aliens?
What instance in the game told you the part that Magi made the fist move and massacred the expedition?
How did it also happen that not aliens supported Quantari but only four?
You call them aliens. Is there information that they are just another civilization on some remote planet? I felt that they live in some other parallel universe with different laws of physics.
What always interested me more is the tech level before war and how much Magi had and how much they got from aliens, because that seems all over the place.
I subscribe to this question.
For all we know, Magi were good enough to build Al-Alkia and that had all kinds of machinery.
I would also bet that the silicon life forms, teleportation devices, power/plasma shields also existed before the aliens, as the zamedi demon seem to have preceded all the events.
The only alien that shared his knowledge was Agatoth and he resided in the ziggurat, which surprisingly didn't have much of anything exceptional, except for the life support system. Given that there was much talk about how Agatoth built the weapons that helped to destroy the the other aliens, and given the flying machine story where the guy from the already crashed ship kept shooting and killed one of the aliens - I would also guess that the flying machines and hellfyre were invented by Agatoth.
The other transdimensional stuff, like the Arch should have also been brought by Agatoth, otherwise Magi didn't really need quantari to figure out that these aliens exist.
 

hivemind

Guest
imo the timeline is something like this

first ships come > magi + quantari work in al akia > gods are summoned > there is a falling out between the magi and the quantari > gods are still kept around but they start to get out of control(one mention of this is the guy who modified his mortal vessel so he could dive deep into the ocean) > quantari army arrives > Balzaar and co join with the quantari as they are powerful enough to do whatever the fuck they want > war happens

I'm not sure why exactly the falling out happened but IIRC it's kinda mentioned in the lore dumps that you can find in al akia.

alternatively the quantari could have send a message back asking for army support even before the falling out happened because they worshiped the voiddwellers as gods and the magi wanted to enslave them from the start

Where did the abyss god go upon release? Why it doesn't affect the story? Why didn't he stay like Balzaar or Agatoth and how was he so powerful right after waking up compared to the main gods?
I think he just wanted to 'sleep'. The way it was described he genocided Maadoran because the thoughts of the people there were annoying him. Galath had a hard life, he just wants to chill.

And the powerlevel could be explained by the fact that Balzaar was brought into a new vessel altogether and Agathoth was in hard coma while the abyss guy was able to interact with you mentally even when he was in the tank and the machines weren't activated.
 

Mozg

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Oct 20, 2015
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I thought the guy under Maadoran was just the vessel. The Cthuluoid spirit thing that had been put into the body had been ejected at some point, leaving a superhuman body behind which has some messed up fragments of the original human mind in it. I assume he either dies after blowing up Maadoran or he's sitting in the ghost town being a crazy ass.
 

Malakal

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I thought the guy under Maadoran was just the vessel. The Cthuluoid spirit thing that had been put into the body had been ejected at some point, leaving a superhuman body behind which has some messed up fragments of the original human mind in it. I assume he either dies after blowing up Maadoran or he's sitting in the ghost town being a crazy ass.

Yes thats more or less how it went and explains the insanity - alien is gone leaving behind a broken but still very powerful shell.
 

hivemind

Guest
I always thought the guy basically ate the alien in the same way you can eat Balzaar.
 

Malakal

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I always thought the guy basically ate the alien in the same way you can eat Balzaar.

That wouldn't really explain the insanity unless he was so badly damaged by fighting him that this happened. But he also doesn't seem to have too much control over his powers.
 

Mozg

Arcane
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Oct 20, 2015
Messages
2,033
As I understand it the abyss itself is a blast crater for some weapon, presumably targeting the guy, which may be what did the ejecting.
 

axedice

Cipher
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465
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- Qantari revere the Cthuloids (Void Dwellers) from other planes as gods, they have basic contact with them through their primitive spirit magic (as opposed to the Empire's more scientific / institutional magic)
- Qantari are informed that there are people across the seas that can bring their gods to their world. I'm not sure if the "gods" or other earthly means gave them the info.
- First Qantari expedition arrives to the Empire. Its kinda like a reverse conquistador thing, where the south americans (Qantari are Aztec) arrive to Europe (a unified Europe since rome never fell, but expanded even more into the Middle East and Persia).
- At first everyone plays nice, Al-Akia is built, explanied in the game. They have problems with the summoning though.

- The Arch was built, so that Ibn-Hadad could pass to the other side in his space suit and have a chat with the void dwellers vis-a-vis (to overcome the summoning problem?). I'm not sure about the timing of this though, the tech at the arch is far too advanced for pre-summoning Empire. Yet, what's the point of building the Arch after the summoning?

- The Qantari and Magus manage to empower the ritual, 3 initial hosts that got killed due to malfunctions were replaced by the Empire's high ranking military officer Legatus Quintus Valerius Corvus (We find his diary in Al'akia).
- The host bodies have wards so that they can take control of the alien minds. The wards don't work though (Qantari sabotage? Never really got this one)
- The Magi learn new things everyday, everyone is happy for some time. Incredible magical and technological advancement, such as fusion reactors and teleportation.
- High Magus Ibn-Hadad starts to suspect the wards are not working and the gods have self control.
- All hell break loose when the Void Dwellers (or at least Balzaar) has full control. They are not pawns but players after all. Although few in number, the Qantari expedition with the help of gods start the war with the empire.
- The Qantari fleet is sailing to the empire to help their gods. They will arrive in full force a year later.
- There is a fallout within the Void Dwellers. Agatoth, probably due to the patronizing manner of Balzaar, has had enough of him and sees an opportunity siding with the empire to overthrow Balzaar. 2 more join him : Galathazor (we see his undead host in Maadoran) and Hassatur (we see his dead body in the mountain facility).
- Galathazor is a replaced soldier (see above) but I don't know for sure if Hassatur and Agatoth have the replaced hosts as well. Maybe the 3 vs 4 thing is just coincidence.
- Agatoth helps humans with new machines weapons etc. to win the war. While he's at his Ziggurat teaching the mages new stuff, Hassatur and Galath are on the field waging war against Balzaar's forces.
- The empire is destroyed in the war. The capital city is nuked and buried benath the sea, geography and climate changes due to the sheer forces unleashed. The Qantari forces are also destroyed with the aid of Team Agatoth.

- Ibn-Hadad decides to remove the connection between planes, thus killing of every single "god" they created. They could've done this earlier and not lose the empire, but Hadad refused due to his arrogance. He thought he could control balzaar through sheer force and we see in game how that worked out for the empire.
- There is a rogue faction within the Magi that believe (or have been enchanted to believe) that killing Agatoth along with other gods would mean the end of human race, since the hostile Dwellers could strike again and this time without any opposition. They build him a chamber so that he could "sleep" through it.
- The connection between planes is severed, all gods are dead, the rogue faction and Ibn-Hadad continue to fight and both sides die (Hadad probably self nuked, to prevent them from nuking Ganezzar).



The abbys god also died during the severing, I believe the remaning host is sort of an undead form due to its reality altering dream powers. But it's not the Void Dweller that it once was, probably some merge of their conciousness. While it is a powerful entity, it has gone mad due to pain, and I don't think it can plan and strategize like Agatoth and Balzaar.
 

Lexxx20

Learned
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Nov 5, 2015
Messages
138
Location
Russia
- Qantari revere the Cthuloids (Void Dwellers) from other planes as gods, they have basic contact with them through their primitive spirit magic (as opposed to the Empire's more scientific / institutional magic)
- Qantari are informed that there are people across the seas that can bring their gods to their world. I'm not sure if the "gods" or other earthly means gave them the info.
- First Qantari expedition arrives to the Empire. Its kinda like a reverse conquistador thing, where the south americans (Qantari are Aztec) arrive to Europe (a unified Europe since rome never fell, but expanded even more into the Middle East and Persia).
- At first everyone plays nice, Al-Akia is built, explanied in the game. They have problems with the summoning though.

- The Arch was built, so that Ibn-Hadad could pass to the other side in his space suit and have a chat with the void dwellers vis-a-vis (to overcome the summoning problem?). I'm not sure about the timing of this though, the tech at the arch is far too advanced for pre-summoning Empire. Yet, what's the point of building the Arch after the summoning?

- The Qantari and Magus manage to empower the ritual, 3 initial hosts that got killed due to malfunctions were replaced by the Empire's high ranking military officer Legatus Quintus Valerius Corvus (We find his diary in Al'akia).
- The host bodies have wards so that they can take control of the alien minds. The wards don't work though (Qantari sabotage? Never really got this one)
- The Magi learn new things everyday, everyone is happy for some time. Incredible magical and technological advancement, such as fusion reactors and teleportation.
- High Magus Ibn-Hadad starts to suspect the wards are not working and the gods have self control.
- All hell break loose when the Void Dwellers (or at least Balzaar) has full control. They are not pawns but players after all. Although few in number, the Qantari expedition with the help of gods start the war with the empire.
- The Qantari fleet is sailing to the empire to help their gods. They will arrive in full force a year later.
- There is a fallout within the Void Dwellers. Agatoth, probably due to the patronizing manner of Balzaar, has had enough of him and sees an opportunity siding with the empire to overthrow Balzaar. 2 more join him : Galathazor (we see his undead host in Maadoran) and Hassatur (we see his dead body in the mountain facility).
- Galathazor is a replaced soldier (see above) but I don't know for sure if Hassatur and Agatoth have the replaced hosts as well. Maybe the 3 vs 4 thing is just coincidence.
- Agatoth helps humans with new machines weapons etc. to win the war. While he's at his Ziggurat teaching the mages new stuff, Hassatur and Galath are on the field waging war against Balzaar's forces.
- The empire is destroyed in the war. The capital city is nuked and buried benath the sea, geography and climate changes due to the sheer forces unleashed. The Qantari forces are also destroyed with the aid of Team Agatoth.

- Ibn-Hadad decides to remove the connection between planes, thus killing of every single "god" they created. They could've done this earlier and not lose the empire, but Hadad refused due to his arrogance. He thought he could control balzaar through sheer force and we see in game how that worked out for the empire.
- There is a rogue faction within the Magi that believe (or have been enchanted to believe) that killing Agatoth along with other gods would mean the end of human race, since the hostile Dwellers could strike again and this time without any opposition. They build him a chamber so that he could "sleep" through it.
- The connection between planes is severed, all gods are dead, the rogue faction and Ibn-Hadad continue to fight and both sides die (Hadad probably self nuked, to prevent them from nuking Ganezzar).



The abbys god also died during the severing, I believe the remaning host is sort of an undead form due to its reality altering dream powers. But it's not the Void Dweller that it once was, probably some merge of their conciousness. While it is a powerful entity, it has gone mad due to pain, and I don't think it can plan and strategize like Agatoth and Balzaar.

I wish I could bro-fist you. Perfectly written reply which sums up all we know and answers OP's questions.

Thank you!
 

Shadowfang

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Road to Arnika
Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
I think the wards to keep the gods in check were just bolas.
That's what i would use if i had to think of a more godly item that solves all conflicts.
But notice how it doesn't work against Agatoth. Clearly the gods learnt how to avoid bolas.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I think the wards to keep the gods in check were just bolas.
That's what i would use if i had to think of a more godly item that solves all conflicts.
But notice how it doesn't work against Agatoth. Clearly the gods learnt how to avoid bolas.
That's because the godly item's a hammer.
 

Shadowfang

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Road to Arnika
Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
It's very hard to tell what technology the Empire held when the Qantari contacted them.
The Guardian at the Zamedi Tower reveals that the overheard his master talking about plans to bring the gods into the world and the hardships involving it.
This either means that the Empire had the technology to produce the guardians before the gods or that the gods transmitted some of their technology before entering physically the world.
The Guardian also shares that his appearance was based on the Apsis squadron (or whatever), winch make me wonder if the power armor was already available before the Gods.
 

Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It's very hard to tell what technology the Empire held when the Qantari contacted them.
The Guardian at the Zamedi Tower reveals that the overheard his master talking about plans to bring the gods into the world and the hardships involving it.
This either means that the Empire had the technology to produce the guardians before the gods or that the gods transmitted some of their technology before entering physically the world.
The Guardian also shares that his appearance was based on the Apsis squadron (or whatever), winch make me wonder if the power armor was already available before the Gods.

Yep, they definitely had the technology before the gods were brought in.

I would add that it was the Qantari who sabotaged the wards. When the initial subjects were toast, they used the substitutes, and the Qantari don't implement the wards properly.
 

axedice

Cipher
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Messages
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Mersin
What's the deal with the failsafe device in Quintus' diary? I've never understood that part. Is it an obvious reference to the wards getting sabotaged by the Qantari that I fail to see? Here is a quote:

"It worked! The blasted, thrice-accursed, misbegotten whore of a machine worked. And it would have been my greatest triumph if not for the meddling of those knuckle-dragging primitives! The High Magus told me – me, a Legatus! – to oversee the installation of a “fail-safe” device as if I were some lowly mechanus.

"I delegated the task to the Qantari chief. Our translator, the only man other than the High Magus fluent in their abrasive tongue, had expired from the sting of a desert insect the week before, so that some few details may have been miscommunicated. In any event, the barbarian grinned at me with his filed teeth and assured me that my will would be done."

"Obviously, the device malfunctioned – truth be told I suspect they all knew it would not work. This drivel about a fail-safe was like as not a ploy to shift the blame to me – and the Power surge turned the three “champions” to charcoal. I thank whatever Gods the Magus is praying to that he wasn’t there to see it.

"I had a few of my personal slaves clean everything up and replaced the erstwhile champions with three soldiers under my command. Take note, dear reader, of the difference between a leader and a talker. I made this project work and when we ran into a problem, I found a solution. And unlike the great and mighty Magi it didn't take me years to do so."
 

Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
What's the deal with the failsafe device in Quintus' diary? I've never understood that part. Is it an obvious reference to the wards getting sabotaged by the Qantari that I fail to see? Here is a quote:

"It worked! The blasted, thrice-accursed, misbegotten whore of a machine worked. And it would have been my greatest triumph if not for the meddling of those knuckle-dragging primitives! The High Magus told me – me, a Legatus! – to oversee the installation of a “fail-safe” device as if I were some lowly mechanus.

"I delegated the task to the Qantari chief. Our translator, the only man other than the High Magus fluent in their abrasive tongue, had expired from the sting of a desert insect the week before, so that some few details may have been miscommunicated. In any event, the barbarian grinned at me with his filed teeth and assured me that my will would be done."

"Obviously, the device malfunctioned – truth be told I suspect they all knew it would not work. This drivel about a fail-safe was like as not a ploy to shift the blame to me – and the Power surge turned the three “champions” to charcoal. I thank whatever Gods the Magus is praying to that he wasn’t there to see it.

"I had a few of my personal slaves clean everything up and replaced the erstwhile champions with three soldiers under my command. Take note, dear reader, of the difference between a leader and a talker. I made this project work and when we ran into a problem, I found a solution. And unlike the great and mighty Magi it didn't take me years to do so."


The meaning I took away from that diary was that the Qantaris sabotaged the process. They intentionally toasted the 3 people who had been properly prepared; "the device malfunctioned - this drivel about a fail-safe was like as not a ploy to shift the blame to me". Then, without the translator or any magi supervision, the Qantaris processed the soldiers in a way that ensured their gods would be free.

I reach that meaning because the other texts and holograms say that the Qantaris worship the gods and want them to come rule. Also, the Qantaris immediately side with the god-rebellion, and were no doubt complicit in it the whole time.
 

Shadowfang

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It's very hard to tell what technology the Empire held when the Qantari contacted them.
The Guardian at the Zamedi Tower reveals that the overheard his master talking about plans to bring the gods into the world and the hardships involving it.
This either means that the Empire had the technology to produce the guardians before the gods or that the gods transmitted some of their technology before entering physically the world.
The Guardian also shares that his appearance was based on the Apsis squadron (or whatever), winch make me wonder if the power armor was already available before the Gods.

Didn't Ibn-Hadad built The Arch first so he could go and chat with the Gods? Then he returned with the solutions. Althrough there's the problem of how he built the arch first before summoning the Gods - would he have the tech for it? The Arch is helluva advanced.
And the empire probably build it with instructions from the Gods through the Qantari. I guess they had to be quite advanced already which led the Qantari to them.
 

Black

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Messages
1,872,592
They're actually vault-dwellers. Obvious self insert if you think about it. They're no gods even tho Quantari worshipped them as such, 'just' powerful creatures living in another dimension (?) usually called the void.
Maybe kind of like Star Control 2 Orz, except VDs managed to get through and have some fun.
 

kwanzabot

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it began because of the growing comflict between the republic, the ncr and the soviet space station
 

Trashos

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Some very good analysis here. I have a few minor objections, but I need to doublecheck them. (eg, did the gods revolt without provocation or only when they found that the Magi were thinking of terminating them?)

What is doing my head in is the 4vs3 thing. I would expect that the 3 replaced vessels were without wards and would be the ones that revolted. But we find out that 4 gods revolted. Actually, it looks like the vessels without wards were the ones that did NOT revolt. Maybe they were friendlier because they had no wards to piss them off? Or because they used to be very devoted soldiers? But I see no sufficient evidence to support these claims.

Another idea is that the 4 revolted because they were controlled by the Qantari (through the wards). In this scenario, the Qantari had been planning the attack all along. However, they couldn't control the 3 gods that were without wards. The 3 gods sided with the Empire out of their own free will. Actually, I like this scenario a lot. Any arguments against?
 
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