Atlus So I'm playing SMT: Nocturne

[Average Manatee]

There's pretty much no need for more than 2 of your party to have Pierce, you can swap turns around just fine and keep attacking with those who do. Others can be used for support.

Not that it wouldn't be satisfying to unleash 4 focused deathbounds with full buffs/debuffs though. Would probably kill everything but the true final boss in a single round. But that's just damage compression, not really helping your damage rate.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Plz recommend best endgame demons - magician/healer and tank one.

Depends what route you are pursuing. If it's the True Demon Ending, you pretty much need a bunch of Fiends or top-tier demons that are immune to Death/Expel and all status ailments. Having the Pierce skill on one party member (likely the main character) helps a lot; two is even better.

I went with:

Spoiler

Main Character lv >99
-Pierce
-Freikugul
-Endure
-Gaea Rage

(I accidentally deleted Focus way back in the beginning)

Daisoujou lv >99 (sacrifice)
-Prayer
-Debilitate
-Endure
-Dekunda
-Dekaja

Metatron lv 96
-Mediaharan
-Debilitate
-Dekunda
-Dekaja
-Endure

Beelzebub lv 98
-Pierce
-Focus
-Debilitate
-Arbitrary High-Tier Physical Skill
-Endure

You want to be able to resist the nasty status effects the TDE boss throws at you in the second and third phases, so top-tier demons are a must (or Fiends). Being able to debuff the boss quick is also helpful, so Debilitate is probably going on an Elemental/Mitama (if it wasn't already). Endure helps because, in the third phase, Root of Evil plus critical hit spam is a possibility and can end a run if he does it to the main character. Having two Pierce-equipped attackers will help the battle move along at a quick pace, but isn't necessary.

This wasn't the first team I faced off against the TDE boss with, and I probably could have beaten him with my turtle plus mana drain strategy, but that would have taken longer than gaining 20-ish levels (mostly for Daisoujou because all of the sacrifices readily available put him over level 99) in the "training room" granted to you by opting for the TDE and fusing up an A-Team. For real, it took under an hour...Nocturne was very gracious in giving the player tools like these. Digital Devil Saga 2...not so much.

Anyway, Louie isn't really that hard, and can be beaten with less-than-optimal tactics, so feel free to try it out and play to what strategies you enjoy. Nocturne is very open, especially for a blobber.

Is there any fiend worth fusing besides Daisoujou?

Daisoujou is the probably best Fiend...that you fuse.

But most of them are worth it if you are doing the extra content alongside "normal" content. Matador was pretty good, and Hell Biker was pretty excellent with his unique skills. The Riders are kinda crammed together temporally, but generally one or two of them will fit nicely in any team. Mother Harlot is quite the versatile attacker and can carry you through a lot of the endgame. The only one I didn't take a liking to was the Trumpeter, but he shows up at a pretty bad time, when high-tier demons with immunities/stats comparable to Fiends start popping up all over the place.

Generally, they're pretty good if you want something with excellent stats/immunities and some powerful unique skills to build upon.

 

[Jasede]

Well, of course he isn't "that hard" when your main character is level 99. >_>

But that's the thing with RPGs, isn't it?


I do agree with Murrow here that you only need 1 demon with pierce, maybe two. Unless you are a pretty high level the other ones are buffing or healing anyway.

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

Forget to mention - I'm about half of da game (last boss / fiend I killed was Ongyo-Ki / Red Rider) but intend to collect most useful skills just right now, so asked in advance.

I abandonned Focus early, is there a possibilty to use this skill on Demi-Fiend by some demon? Or is there any similar one?

Pierce, Deathbound, Spiral Viper or Freigukel?


BTW this game is much better survival horror than 99% of the genre and the lack of voice-acting only makes the atmosphere scarier.

 

[TigerKnee]

I abandonned Focus early, is there a possibilty to use this skill on Demi-Fiend by some demon? Or is there any similar one?

Nope, sorry, you're fragged. Focus is a "cast on user only" skill.

Get it on your 2nd playthrough or something.

Pierce, Deathbound, Spiral Viper or Freigukel?

Pierce is a passive, if you can have access to it, which means that you're going for TDE, it's pretty much a requirement.

Freigukel and Spiral Viper are a single-target skills, the former is better. Deathbound is multiple targets, get both I suppose... although my favourite multi-target skill is "Deadly Fury" from Satan magatama instead.

 

[Average Manatee]

Deathbound is supreme IMO because multi-hit attacks are great for skill and stat compression.

Use it on an enemy party and you'll usually hit all of them, use it on a boss and you'll hit 1-3 times, and hitting anything more than 1 time should deal more damage than other skills. So you only really need 1 skill to be a top-notch fighter in both normal fights and boss fights.

Also it's the type of physical skill that scales with your max HP (only HP, nothing else), so you can give yourself and your demons Life Surge for +30% HP, boost vitality and ignore strength, suddenly you've got 999 HP around level 75 and have maxed damage and survivability, while other physical attacks have weaker stats, defense, and will need to keep leveling up for ages to catch up to your damage numbers. Meanwhile you have tons of stat and skill space left over to diversify and pick up support and magic.

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

Playing on hard, game is suprisingly easy so far, Daisoujou with Meditation / Makatora is like infinite MP supply depot for whole party, MC's Deathbound breaks any boss unless he/she is immune to physical attacks like Skadi was.

Last boss / fiend killed - Seraphs trio / Trumpeter so it's time to finish the Kalpas 3rd, 4th, 5th. I hope 60+ lvl team will be able to take out Beelzebub.

After finishing 5th Kalpa, any past / future Reason choices will be meaningless due to True Demon Ending, right?

 

[Jasede]

Correct.

Unless you already entered the final dungeon; entering it locks in your ending.

 

[TigerKnee]

Nocturne's difficulty is really overrated by a lot of people. It's mostly because most JRPG players abilities has been completely hindered by the dead easy difficulty of Final Fantasy that Nocturne seems super tough, when in reality battle strategy is only slightly harder than FF (except for gimmick bosses)

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Last boss / fiend killed - Seraphs trio / Trumpeter so it's time to finish the Kalpas 3rd, 4th, 5th. I hope 60+ lvl team will be able to take out Beelzebub.

You haven't done the 3rd Kalpa yet? I always did Labyrinth levels (and Fiends) as soon as they were available; the "extra" content is generally much more interesting and I wanted to experience with as little level advantage as possible.

You'll probably stomp through the Third Kalpa, though I'm certain one sequence will give you some fits. The 4th Kalpa is probably the best dungeon area in the game. Going into that one blind was a bit of a shocker; I had to bust out the grid-paper in a few instances. Good times. Very good times. The boss of the fourth is pretty excellent as well. He killed me twice, once with his signature attack and once with his propensity for Focused Criticals aimed at the main character. And when I did beat him, it was by the skin of my teeth. Given that you know who he is, he probably loses a lot of his edge, especially if you spoiled yourself on his abilities.

The Fifth Kalpa is kind of a letdown. The dungeon design is much less interesting than the Fourth and the boss in there isn't too difficult either...well, the guy you can pick up in the Fifth Kalpa sure makes quick work out of that floor's boss (he joined easily for me; I guess that's one of the good things that can be taken away from having played DMC2).

Nocturne's difficulty is really overrated by a lot of people. It's mostly because most JRPG players abilities has been completely hindered by the dead easy difficulty of Final Fantasy that Nocturne seems super tough, when in reality battle strategy is only slightly harder than FF (except for gimmick bosses)

Like Dark Souls, the difficulty of Nocturne is greatly overrated by casuals but also underrated by the hardcore crowd. If you go through Nocturne with minimal spoilers* and grinding it will present a good deal of difficulty on Hard mode. You'll be punished for mistakes and improper preparation, but most fights have at least a couple of "solutions", so it isn't merely trial & error. Dungeons, and the numerous encounters therein, will tax your resources and provide a challenge...unless you get cheeky and slap Mana Refill on a Mitama around level 40ish . But even that isn't all that broken in terms of obviating resource mechanics in blobbers given the high random encounter rate in dungeons (even with Repel constantly active).

I can't think of many RPGs more difficult that don't rely on randomization, reflexes, or extremely cheap/linear gating encounters that are harder. Certainly Nocturne isn't the hardest game, but it's definitely on the right tail of the RPG Difficulty bell curve.

*The only real spoilers I had were some vague hints:

-"Keep the Pixie"
-"Do extra content as soon as possible"
-"Get all the Magatama"

and a fusion chart.

 

[Average Manatee]

I agree. It's an RPG that requires you to pay attention and understand the not immediately intuitive combat and fusion system. This alone is enough to make it seem hardcore to the average player. But once you do, it's a pretty smooth ride.

he joined easily for me; I guess that's one of the good things that can be taken away from having played DMC2

Dungeons, and the numerous encounters therein, will tax your resources and provide a challenge...unless you get cheeky and slap Mana Refill on a Mitama around level 40ish . But even that isn't all that broken in terms of obviating resource mechanics in blobbers given the high random encounter rate in dungeons (even with Repel constantly active).

Ohh... I do that around level 20 . And I do much worse.

I've always found Tornado makes the midgame far too easy given how economical it is even on a mildly magic-focused character.

 

[Jasede]

Ya, Murrow knows the truth again.
Woo! Brofists all around.

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

Finally some challeging bosses - Samael & Ahriman. Noah wasn't hard, just fukken anoying due to physical repel ability, I debilitated him to the limits so his attacks were pathetic but battle was just too long and boring as fuck.

I'm right before 2nd Thor fight but need 15 levels up to fuse Metatron, best grinding spots?

 

[Jasede]

I recommend not grinding that high level, but if you really want a Metatron...

The best spot is the final dungeon (not the Kalpa, the dungeon); the second-best spot is the place with the three temples. But if you have access to the final dungeon that's where you should grind.


Still, my soul stirs with anger at the very idea of grinding so high that you can just fuse some uber crap and steamroll the final boss. :<

 

[TigerKnee]

Is he even playing on Hard Mode? On Normal mode you don't even need the high level dudes, just having Defense Buffs and Attack debuffs on the enemy is enough.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I recommend not grinding that high level, but if you really want a Metatron...

The best spot is the final dungeon (not the Kalpa, the dungeon); the second-best spot is the place with the three temples. But if you have access to the final dungeon that's where you should grind.


Still, my soul stirs with anger at the very idea of grinding so high that you can just fuse some uber crap and steamroll the final boss. :<

That has always been my problem with these games. You need to grind a bunch of levels for the really cool summons, and then they are so overpowered and your stats are so overpowered that you can destroy heaven and hell with a single glare.

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

Is he even playing on Hard Mode? On Normal mode you don't even need the high level dudes, just having Defense Buffs and Attack debuffs on the enemy is enough.

Hard mode. I'm gonna fuse Metatron to unlock demon with Pierce and make Mitama, then make Beelzebub's fly form and march towards Baal Avatar. It's the whole grinding I planned.

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

Aaargh, finally finished it. Kagatusuchui was a bitch because of Infinite Light (and my lack of Rakukaja) but managed to kill it on the second try, then Lucifer was a pushover.

Brilliant game, is Digital Devil Saga at least half as good as Nocturne?

 

[Jasede]

What the fuck? You had a harder time with the boss before Lucy than with Lucy? Well, I'll be damned.
I hope you didn't grind out your Metatron.

 

[TigerKnee]

Lucifer is a push-over really. Kagutsuchi isn't that hard either but if you don't have Rakukaja like he said, his Infinite Light move can build to the point of one-shotting Demi-fiend.

As for DDS... Eh, half-half.

The out of battle strategic layer that Nocturne of recruiting demons and careful fusion aren't there anymore in favor of the Mantra system, which is basically FFX Sphere Grid. The only advantage I think it has is that you can reselect "old" abilities unlike Nocturne's "once you drop, it's gone forever", but it just doesn't give the same feeling as fusing a demon with stronger than usual skills and shit because it's just so... controlled. This is basically the biggest weakness of the game compared to Nocturne IMO.

DDS2 had a better mantra system and introduces a "Ring accessory" mechanic that makes char customization more interesting, but unfortunately the game had some questionable decisions that means you won't be able to fully appreciate the improvements. Think Pools of Radiance's primitive but well-designed gameplay vs certain later Goldbox's additional classes/quality of life improvements but sloppier design.

In battle, outside of the drop to 3 characters, I actually thought there were additions that make it more interesting. Unlike Nocturne, you can't fuse a billion elemental immunities to your characters innately and you can't control their weaknesses. Instead you have "Shield" spells that you can cast to prevent damage. You got to weight whether using up that turn is more important than whatever else you want to do. There's also combo attacks that takes up 2/3 character turns to cast a stronger spell, Chrono Trigger style. Sometimes they're worth the turn expenditure, sometimes not.

The Plot's pretty JRPG. I thought it had some potential at the start, but once you get to the end game in DDS2 things really take a turn for the extremely stupid. Actually I think that applies to the entire end-game of DDS2 really. Lazy last dungeon design, Megaman boss fight gauntlet, wtf ending.

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

What the fuck? You had a harder time with the boss before Lucy than with Lucy? Well, I'll be damned.
I hope you didn't grind out your Metatron.

I underestimated Kagatsuchi until it used Inifinite Light, first wave killed everyone (despite my 4x or 5x Debilitate), Endure resurrected them but the second wave... over. Next time I focused on Tarukaja'ing my party during 1st form fight and managed to kill Kagutsuchi 2nd form just after first Infinite Light. Lucifer... 3, 4 Debilitate / Tarukaja + Freikugel / Deathbound and that's all, he was able to use High King / Root of Evil only once.

My team was:
Demi Fiend above 99 lvl
Metatron 95 lvl
Shiva 96 lvl
Trumpeter 98 lvl
Pixie 90 lvl
Fly Beelzebub 96 lvl
Dante 90 lvl
Daisoujou 83 lvl

 

[Jasede]

/feels smugly superior for beating the game at level 79 or some shit.

/WHEN I WAS A KID WE WALKED BAREFOOT UPHILL IN THE SNOW

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

http://www.siliconera.com/2014/05/06/shin-megami-tensei-nocturne-now-ps2-classic-playstation-3/

 

[Humanity has risen!]

At $9.99 this is a steal, one of the best games of all time, and one worth playing again and again. You'd be a fool not to buy it. You're seldom going to find a better gaming deal.

 

[Kuhrazy]

I only played strange journey and I got to what might have been the end boss before I gave up and wept. I thought the plot was some low rent anime stuff and I never understood the fusion system at all, anyhoo how does Nocturne compare?