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Atlus So I'm playing SMT: Nocturne

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Jan 7, 2012
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14,152
gsdx_20120825183432.jpg

That is a lovely lady.
 

Chateaubryan

Cipher
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
369
Just started playing Nocturne and am currently at the Ginza Underpass. The main problem I have with the combat is that I'm lacking MP after a few fights and subsequent heals; right now the main aspect of difficulty comes from MP management as opposed to tactics making the game more a war of attrition than anything else. When I get to town should I buy as many chakra drops and other MP refillers as possible? Does this change?

At the beginning, skills like Pulinpa, Shibaboo, Marin Karin, Sexy Gaze or Panic Voice are very good for controlling a fight without expending too much MP. Usually you have to spend massive amounts of MP to quickly reduce the number of enemies and reduce their damage output, but if you use mind skills, you don't need to do that as much. Those spells are a godsend in the Hard difficulty.

Also, if you are at Ginza Underpass, you should be able to fuse Megami Uzume, which comes with the invaluable Mana Refill + Media skills. Allowing you to heal after each fight without much cost and *SPOILERS*

Are you playing in hard or normal ?
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
I have a SMT:Nocturne .iso waiting for me, but I still have to finish up the Persona games I started :mad:

Demons: gotta catch 'em all!
 

eric__s

ass hater
Developer
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Jun 13, 2011
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I gotta brag. . .

Sorry

Everyone always talks about how hard the matador is, but I didn't realize it was a special encounter until after I talked to my friends about it. I spent the first turn casting buff spells on my guys, and I had an arahabaki (evolved from a momonofu or whatever they're called) use charge. In the second round, the arahabaki attacked the matador, got a critical and killed it in one hit. That was the matador fight for me.

MAN I want to play this game again. I wish I had time (and didn't give my disc away to a friend : ( )
 

eric__s

ass hater
Developer
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
2,301
Just started playing Nocturne and am currently at the Ginza Underpass. The main problem I have with the combat is that I'm lacking MP after a few fights and subsequent heals; right now the main aspect of difficulty comes from MP management as opposed to tactics making the game more a war of attrition than anything else. When I get to town should I buy as many chakra drops and other MP refillers as possible? Does this change?
There's this demon called daisoujou that I used for like 2/3rds of the game specifically because of this problem. It's this mummified Buddhist monk that you fight as one of the optional bosses. After you beat it, you can fuse it (I think there's some special requirement and I can't remember what it is), but it gets two very, very good skills. The first is one that completely heals everyone in your group. The second is one that drains MP from enemies. Using these skills together means you can fully heal yourself as much as you want and use other monsters exclusively for fighting and buffing. I think by the point you're at, you should be able to fuse it so if you haven't fought it yet, you should look for it.


aaa Ginza Underpass is way before where I thought it was. Yeah, this is a problem in the beginning of the game but it will go away after a while. Just keep fusing new demons, experimenting with strategies and messing around. The problem will mitigate itself to an extent, but definitely look for daisoujou when you get around to it.

oh man, Ginza Underpass is where matador is, isn't it? One thing you might want to do is to try to get a momonofu (those Chinese soldier-looking guys) and level it up a few times. It will evolve into an arahabaki, which reflects all physical attacks. Good luck ; )
 

Whisky

The Solution
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera
MAN I want to play this game again. I wish I had time (and didn't give my disc away to a friend : ( )

Oh man, never do that. I've got more than a few things completely lost because I lent them to friends who I lost contact with. I remember being pissed off for a long time because I lost my copy of FF8 through this (Though since my opinion of the game has decreased in years, I'm not too broken up about it now).

Arahabaki was one of my my used demons. I used him up until a few dungeons before the final, because even though his stats were lagging behind, his Void Dark/Expel/Phys was chipping away at enemy's turns so well. Never used Daisoujou and I'm not sure why.

Better add this game to the must replay list. I only finished it once (Musubi route) and that is not enough.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,152
I gotta brag. . .

Sorry

Everyone always talks about how hard the matador is, but I didn't realize it was a special encounter until after I talked to my friends about it. I spent the first turn casting buff spells on my guys, and I had an arahabaki (evolved from a momonofu or whatever they're called) use charge. In the second round, the arahabaki attacked the matador, got a critical and killed it in one hit. That was the matador fight for me.

MAN I want to play this game again. I wish I had time (and didn't give my disc away to a friend : ( )

Considering that the level at which you fight Matador is around level 18 (I have to grind a bit usually to get there and pick up Uzume), that Momunofu is a level 24 demon that only appears after the boss fight, and that to get arahabaki you would need to level up momunofu several times, I'm pretty sure that you are, to use the phrase, full of shit.

Bragging about finding Matador easy is par for the course for SMT3 players, but at least stick to something reasonable :lol:
 

eric__s

ass hater
Developer
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Messages
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I'm pretty sure I was higher than 18. My friend and I started playing Nocturne together two days ago and we just got to the shopping mall section of Ginza and we're 14, so we'll probably be higher than 18 by the time we get to the underpass. I don't remember the specific combinations, but I've seen several momonofu fusions when I was skimming through the cathedral of shadows. It was definitely lower than 24, it might have been 20. We'll definitely get one to see how many levels it takes to evolve it. No guides bIaTcH
 

Hirato

Purse-Owner
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Codex 2012 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Looking at my own playthrough (got about 3000 screenshots), I was level 24 when I entered Mantra HQ, and I apparently also had a Momunofu on my person then, he's level 20.

And looking at my companions (level 22 makami), I think I was around level 21 when I fought and defeated the matador.
In conclusion, with proper use of sacrificial fusion, cboyardee probably could've gotten an arahabaki before the matador fight...
 
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Christ, I'm usually against the Matador when I'm level 16 and need to grind up some. What are you guys doing? It would take hours for me to grind up to level 21, at level 18 you get like 2% of the exp needed for a level per battle. And I'm not skipping areas or anything, 100% exploration.

Apparently level 24 is the level you need to get Momunofu to evolve, not the level you get him. Still really high, considering demons need more XP to level than you do.

In conclusion, with proper use of sacrificial fusion, cboyardee probably could've gotten an arahabaki before the matador fight...

You still can't sacrifice fuse a demon to a higher level than you are, so he needs his own level to be way high.
 

Hirato

Purse-Owner
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Codex 2012 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
The only explanation I have is typical first playthrough silliness,
In other words, getting lost, heading back to heal and it turns out you were literally right next to the next rest stop, etc.
I did also grind a bit so I could get access to the "Fog Breath" skill, which was my gambit to finally defeat the matador. :oops:
I really was level 20/21 when I did.

As much as I'd love to start a new playthrough or at least finish my previous one, I don't have a controller with which it would be comfortable to play....

You still can't sacrifice fuse a demon to a higher level than you are, so he needs his own level to be way high.

Fair point, in that case he can only be as crazy as the people he admires, or alternatively it's his second playthrough (or he had someone else's demon compendium).
 

deuxhero

Arcane
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Jul 30, 2007
Messages
11,328
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Flowery Land
If you need to grind for some strange reason before Matador, take the bridge before entering the underpass. The enemies over there are non-threatening or weak to stats effects and or instant death.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,999
Location
Platypus Planet
Just started playing Nocturne and am currently at the Ginza Underpass. The main problem I have with the combat is that I'm lacking MP after a few fights and subsequent heals; right now the main aspect of difficulty comes from MP management as opposed to tactics making the game more a war of attrition than anything else. When I get to town should I buy as many chakra drops and other MP refillers as possible? Does this change?
There's this demon called daisoujou that I used for like 2/3rds of the game specifically because of this problem. It's this mummified Buddhist monk that you fight as one of the optional bosses. After you beat it, you can fuse it (I think there's some special requirement and I can't remember what it is), but it gets two very, very good skills. The first is one that completely heals everyone in your group. The second is one that drains MP from enemies. Using these skills together means you can fully heal yourself as much as you want and use other monsters exclusively for fighting and buffing. I think by the point you're at, you should be able to fuse it so if you haven't fought it yet, you should look for it.


aaa Ginza Underpass is way before where I thought it was. Yeah, this is a problem in the beginning of the game but it will go away after a while. Just keep fusing new demons, experimenting with strategies and messing around. The problem will mitigate itself to an extent, but definitely look for daisoujou when you get around to it.

oh man, Ginza Underpass is where matador is, isn't it? One thing you might want to do is to try to get a momonofu (those Chinese soldier-looking guys) and level it up a few times. It will evolve into an arahabaki, which reflects all physical attacks. Good luck ; )

I fused my Daisoujou into an endgame demon by giving him War Cry and Fog Breath. Even beat Lucifer with him. Later on I made Metatron who's Debilitate was a bit more functional than having to cast two separate debuffs.

As for Matador, my first encounter with him was quite lucky. I had pumped ALL my stats into strength. Used focus with Demi Fiend and got a crit on Matador. He was pretty much dead after that one hit.
 

nihil

Augur
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Jun 11, 2006
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490
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Sweden
Project: Eternity
Sorry if this was answered earlier in the thread, but should this be played on hard or not? Does it mean more tactics or just more grinding?
 

Jasede

Arcane
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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
It does mean more tactics in that everything murders you if you don't bring the right demons.
But in a way that also means more grinding since often you run into a boss, only to find out: shit, can't bring anyone weak vs X, so you have to catch/fuse new/better demons.

It's a toss up...

I played Hard on my first time. It's... well, it's insanely brutal and required some grinding (because of my then low skill level) to get past Matador. The game stayed extremely difficult from that point on until the very end, with random encounters easily wiping you out if you bring the wrong demons.

Grinding helps a small amount but it won't save a flawed strategy - it's really about bringing the right demons and skills. If that seems like grinding to you I can't recommend Hard.

On the other hand, I always warned my spouse that this is a difficult game and so they played on Normal and it was almost a bit too easy, for anyone genre-savy. Matador, for example, was pretty much a pushover. Of course me handing out advice liberally may have trivialized the experience.
 

Rahdulan

Omnibus
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Messages
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Sorry if this was answered earlier in the thread, but should this be played on hard or not? Does it mean more tactics or just more grinding?

I wouldn't recommend it, at least not for the first run. Some say you need to know the game inside and out or that you need a guide for the hard mode, but it basically boils down to understanding how the combat works and playing by the boss' rules or they'll bitchslap you. A lot of people are dumbfounded by SMT games because, unlike most JRPG where they're utterly useless except for few gimmick fights, status affecting spells are actually king over there.
 
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Messages
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Sorry if this was answered earlier in the thread, but should this be played on hard or not? Does it mean more tactics or just more grinding?

Normal is certainly pretty easy, I think it's something like -33% damage taken (edit: 50% actually, wow) and similar buffs against status effects. Haven't actually tried it, but that would seem to make a majority of fights trivial. Matador is the only point at which I would say "you will likely will need to grind a few levels at this point" on hard (mostly because your level going into that fight is just below the point where you start getting some powerful skills and demons). The other hard mode boss battles can be beaten by returning to a save point and fusing demons to counter what you've fought.
 
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Daisoujou was ridiculously OP. The game becomes cake when you get him. I think I beat Lucifer with him, Dante, and maybe Thor.
 

SCO

Arcane
In My Safe Space
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Feb 3, 2009
Messages
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Fuck persona, fuck SMT, fuck charts, fuck their autism, fuck their random encounters, fuck it.
 

Jasede

Arcane
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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Don't bother or you end up like me, endlessly trying to get to a high enough level to fuse the "good" demons, getting bored with it and fighting the TLB with your random group of demons you were trying to get to level up high enough to fuse into the endgame demons - and winning.

It was a long fight.
 

TigerKnee

Arcane
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
1,920
Tank basically means "Has lots of resistances" doesn't it? I would go with Black Frost for that.

Magicians don't really do much end-game, it's a physical fest then. Anyone can become a healer once you dump Mediarahan on them or whatever it's called. Daisoujou works fine as a healer.

Just about every fiend is useful if you get them at the first time they appear, but physical focused fiends lose their strength over time because the damage formula for physical attacks is overly dependent on their actual levels (which mostly affects Matador and Hell Rider, but those guys are nice for eventual sacrifice fusion fodder). Mostly the biggest advantage of fiends is their plentiful resistances, as usual. So if you want an end-game one, I dunno, Mother Harlot?
 
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Skills reign supreme more than anything else really. Physical is the strongest along with pierce, but with 8 slots per demon you should be able to cram in a few elemental spells for exploiting weaknesses. You can make just about any demon pretty awesome with good skills + cover whatever weaknesses it has + stat buffs from Mitama.

Also keep in mind that you can give any demon exponential amounts of experience through sacrifice fusions. This makes it quite possible to continue using certain low-level demons you like all the way to the end game, which is something that I'm rather disappointed that you can't do with many other SMT fusion systems.
 
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