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So, Arx Fatalis...

Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,182
I completed this old beast yesterday for the first time, well, sort of completed. In order to play it, I had to install the Arx Libertatis community mod, as the default game is buggy as hell and just doesn't run properly on more modern machines. When I first tried running it, the movement was all sped up, with your character strafing and moving at light speed for example, but the mod fixed all of that. However, I guess it introduced some of its own bugs, as the final battle went very "interestingly" for me. After unloading on you with his tractor beam/damage/summon demon minion barrage at the beginning of the fight, Akbaa stops attacking and just stands there while you strike him the rest of the fight. Not very satisfying, I dare say. Apparently it's a known bug on the mod website, but it's marked as having been patched/resolved back in 2013, and I am pretty sure I am using the latest version, so ... Oh well, since I can't fix it, and I did defeat him and saw the final cinematic, I will just chalk it up as completed.

So, the game itself. I really like AND really hate it. It does certain things so well that in the end, on the balance, I will have positive memories of it, but at the same time, some parts are just so frustrating.

One of the things I really love about it is the game world. Most RPGs consist of mostly empty space, with dense settlements or points of interest in between, but in Arx, you have an extremely dense world filled to the brim with content, which is locked away behind walls, secret doors, and puzzles. When I first started playing it, I saw the map with eight blank levels and how much space I already covered doing the early tutorial stuff on goblin prison level and the one below it, and thought to myself, this game is tiny! But what I didn't realize at the time is how the levels actually consist of many separate areas, not necessarily connected to each other (or at least not in obvious ways). So later on, I came back to those levels in different places, and discovered a shit-ton of other stuff.

Another thing I love is how "active" the game is. NPCs tell you only very high level instructions, and it's up to you to figure everything else out, using exploration, hints, logic, and sometimes trial and error. This is a far cry from the modern hand-holding approach with quest compasses and high prescriptive quest journals, and make you feel very satisfied when you are able to progress.

The graphics are very pretty, even for such an old game (the NPC graphics and animations for example, put Morrowind, which came out at around the same time, to shame), and I've really enjoyed the magic system, with runes that you can collect and that combine their base effects logically with each other to create spells, as well as having to draw the rune symbols in order to cast. Not very deep, but does make you feel like an actual magician.

The story is nothing special, yet another variation of a hero saving the world from a great evil, but the setting is really cool, and I think based on the closing cinematic and the idea of Guild of Travellers, they had some cool plans for it in the future. The world interactivity is also awesome, although I feel like it should've been used more in quests than it was.

Then we come to the puzzles, which is where my love/hate relationship with the game really takes off. Puzzles are a huge part of Arx, and you will have to solve (or look up online) many of them in order to get anywhere. Like many games that heavily feature puzzles, Arx is a mixed bag when it comes to their quality. I feel like the game is at its best when the puzzles are organic, that is, are just some natural obstacles in the game that can be overcome with observation and logic. For example:

- There are some closed rooms on the first floor of the crypt, with a statue standing in front of them with an empty bowl, and a name plaque. Nearby there is a grave with the same name that describes this person as a vampire, and there is a vial of blood nearby. So using a little bit of logic, you pour the blood into the bowl, and voila, the doors open.
- The Goblin King won't see you to open the room with the troll idol, but you find a note describing his allergy to alcohol, so experimenting, you add some wine to his cake dough before the cook bakes it, causing him to run out of the locked throne room to the shitter.
- Getting to the ice dragon area by levitating to that whole hidden away part of the level, then levitating around and using stalactites to get around the cavern, then using common sense to melt the ice blocking the hallway with fire, and finally researching the dragon scale number in the kingdom library to know what to bribe him with.
- Trapping the black beast on the dwarf level in the magma pit.

There is a whole bunch of these in the game, and they are great. But then there is the dark side of puzzles, the ones where you have to examine every inch of every wall for secret buttons or levers, or areas where there are 10 different levers and it's unclear what they do exactly, so you have to run around for hours experimenting with all this tedious stuff. Or stuff that's really not very obvious at all, and almost requires a guide or online info. Things like:

- In Temple of Akbaa, in order to shut down the security system, one of the notes you get says "first locks the second", which apparently refers to the first pair of doors in one of the hallways needing to be closed to open the second one. Wtf? Given the vague description, would anyone get this on their own without trial-and-erroring stuff for ages?
- On the third level of the crypt, to get to the Shield of Ancients, you need to put the carved rocks you find on the stumpy pillars with the opposite symbol to that of the clan. This makes no sense at all, because the narration tells you to honor the clans. How are you honoring them by putting the opposite symbols?
- To get the fifth Akbaa Rock to open the final fight room, you need to use a candle on the skull on Iserbius's desk. But again, this is a really stupid puzzle, because there is no logical reason to do this, other than I guess the candle was there, the skull was there, and the skull is highlighted, so let's just trial-and-error everything clickable with everything nearby. Really bad design approach.

I am a pretty patient person and not the worst in the world when it comes to puzzles (used to be really good at it when I was younger), but these days, my patience is too short for this kind of bs. So yeah, love/hate it is.

Overall though, I really enjoyed Arx. Not a perfect game by any means, bugs, shitty combat, some frustrating as all hell puzzles, but a very different experience.
 

Shadowfang

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What kind of character did you play?
I didn't care much for the sucky combat so a pure (overpowered) mage was the most satisfying way of blasting through it.
 

Anthedon

Arcane
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
After unloading on you with his tractor beam/damage/summon demon minion barrage at the beginning of the fight, Akbaa stops attacking and just stands there while you strike him the rest of the fight. Not very satisfying, I dare say. Apparently it's a known bug on the mod website, but it's marked as having been patched/resolved back in 2013, and I am pretty sure I am using the latest version, so ... Oh well, since I can't fix it, and I did defeat him and saw the final cinematic, I will just chalk it up as completed.

I had the same problem a few months back, that was the only issue I noticed though. The rune drawing started to annoy me rather quickly, otherwise the magic system is pretty neat. Never really tried melee combat.
 

Tao

Savant
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
346
To this day i still havent play a better Magic system in a game that the one in Arx Fatalis. Really inmersive, powerfull and with ACTUAL utility other than blast people away or make the game spanw a dog or some shit.. The Elder Scroll saga could take a hint or something.

That's all i can tell because i played this game like a life ago. When i was 12ish
 

Ash

Arcane
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Oct 16, 2015
Messages
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Arx has to be one of the most underrated RPGs of all time. Even among the Looking Glass fanbase it is rarely mentioned. I don't think that many people have actually played it. Myself I love the game dearly, it is up there with System Shock 2, Deus Ex and the rest in greatness in all but story, but even that has its charms.
As for your problem with those specific puzzles, it's been a while so I don't remember the specifics of those particular puzzles but I'm sure there's logic and intuition designed into them somehow, just as there is in all the other puzzles in the game. But maybe not. I remember being completely stumped on the Crypt crest puzzle even on a replay, but that may have been my fault for not being perceptive enough rather than a fault in design. I don't recall the specifics though so I don't really have a say.
 
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Reapa

Doom Preacher
Joined
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Germany
now you have to play "The Void", lest your skill at drawing magic rusts away.
 

valcik

Arcane
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I didn't care much for the sucky combat so a pure (overpowered) mage was the most satisfying way of blasting through it.
I'd advise any mage to put 8 points in Strenght anyway. This way you can wear chainmail and wield scimitar, which is really powerful combination against pesky goblins. This won't make you any worse mage, you can still see all the hidden doors and fry Ylsides with a pair of well-placed fireballs!
 

Tito Anic

Arcane
Shitposter
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One of the things I really love about it is the game world. Most RPGs consist of mostly empty space, with dense settlements or points of interest in between, but in Arx, you have an extremely dense world filled to the brim with content, which is locked away behind walls, secret doors, and puzzles.

:bro:

One of the greatest dungeon crawlers(literally), it is System Shock 2 in the underground, clearly 10/10.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
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What kind of character did you play?
I didn't care much for the sucky combat so a pure (overpowered) mage was the most satisfying way of blasting through it.

Yeah, same thing. I read before playing that pure fighters might have problems with some enemies, like the Ylsides, and the melee combat is crappy. They put in different kinds of strikes (slashes, thrusts, etc), but I am not sure if they do anything differently, and holding the button down to power the attack up for ages is really bad in an action combat system. It was OK in 1992 for UU I guess, but by 2002 you had to come up with something better. So I went pure mage, collected most of the runes, and used Fireball 99% of the time in combat. They could've made the power curve better for magic, but it had a lot of nice utility spells (Heal, Levitate, Telekinesis, Speed, Armor, Trap Stuff).

To this day i still havent play a better Magic system in a game that the one in Arx Fatalis. Really inmersive, powerfull and with ACTUAL utility other than blast people away or make the game spanw a dog or some shit.. The Elder Scroll saga could take a hint or something.

It could be better in terms of complexity (like spell counters as in AD&D) and the power curve (where level 3 Fireball wasn't as good as it got pretty much), but in terms of collecting runes and logically combining basic effects into compound spells, and drawing the symbols, it WAS really cool.

One of the greatest dungeon crawlers(literally), it is System Shock 2 in the underground, clearly 10/10.

I dunno, I love SS2 and despite some frustrations, enjoyed Arx, but they are different games. Aside from setting differences, Arx is a much more active game. In SS2, you are given a LOT more instructions about what you should be doing, and there is a lot less puzzles or things for player to figure out. When it works well, that makes Arx feel a lot better than SS2, with a lot more satisfaction, but when it doesn't, it feels much worse. So a lot of highs and lows I guess.
 

*-*/\--/\~

Cipher
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
912
Heh, I couldn't play a mage in Arx because it took me like 60 years to draw the runes with my mouse. Still, I really liked the atmosphere and feel of the game with it's cramped levels full of stuff, as opposed to the modern 'open world' aka large stretches of emptiness and/or randomly generated boring stuff. Closest thing to UU I played... I wonder why no one ever created a remake.
 

Tito Anic

Arcane
Shitposter
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I dunno, I love SS2 and despite some frustrations, enjoyed Arx, but they are different games.

I think they have more similarities than diffences:

1. take place in multystorey closed spaces(dungeons)
2. have evil entity as a antagonist(Akbaa, Shodan)
3. reward resource management(degradable items, scarce resources)
4. include stealth
5. have horror elements
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,556
The format is "System Shock 2 in the underground" because System Shock 1 was Ultima Underworld in space, Arx Fatalis being an Underworld spiritual sequel. As with all the classic "Immersive Sims" there are tons of similarities and tons of differences, but they are unmistakably of the same glorious breed.

Arx Fatalis is notable in many ways, but one special point for me is it being the only game ever to adapt System Shock 2's fantastic grid inventory & "use mode" hybrid system, and it innovated upon it too. There's still so much incline left untapped in the genre...I'd mod 'em all if life permitted it.
 
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Invictus

Arcane
The Real Fanboy
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Messages
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Location
Mexico
Divinity: Original Sin 2
The format is "System Shock 2 in the underground" because System Shock 1 was Ultima Underworld in space, Arx Fatalis being an Underworld spiritual sequel. As with all the classic "Immersive Sims" there are tons of similarities and tons of differences, but they are unmistakably of the same glorious breed.

Arx Fatalis is notable in many ways, but one special point for me is it being the only game ever to adapt System Shock 2's fantastic grid inventory & "use mode" hybrid system, and it innovated upon it too. There's still so much incline left untapped in the genre...I'd mod 'em all if life permitted it.
Hey Ash this game could use a bit of the love you gave to Deus Ex, it doesnt have any "worst" issues but tweaking its melee and and maybe adjusting the AI would be great. It still such a great game...I remeber in one of my first jobs trying to read the first reviews when it came out and daydreaming of buying it since it was a fairly limited release and hard to get in Mexico
 
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Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
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is cold
Drawing spells mechanic would be okay if symbols didn't have to be drawn with pixel-perfect precision. And sometimes even that wasn't enough, so you would just hope it's your lucky day (punk). I finished it with melee char, but used some of the runes from time to time. Can't imagine playing it as pure mage and having to wave all those complicated figures, while being bullrushed by evul knight things.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,556
Hey Ash this game could use a bit of the love you gave to Deus Ex, it doesnt have any "worst" issues but tweaking its melee and and maybe adjusting the AI would be great. It still such a great game...I remeber in one of my first jobs trying to read the first reviews when it came out and daydreaming of buying it since it was a fairly limited release and hard to get in Mexico

I agree. It's on my radar, but like I said...life. Furthermore after pushing so hard for the incline and design progression in my last project for years only for it to meet 3% the downloads that the low quality Revision mod got, well my heart isn't in non-profit as much as it used to be. It's not what I bring to the table that matters, ultimately.
 

Shadowfang

Arcane
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Messages
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Location
Road to Arnika
Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
Drawing spells mechanic would be okay if symbols didn't have to be drawn with pixel-perfect precision. And sometimes even that wasn't enough, so you would just hope it's your lucky day (punk). I finished it with melee char, but used some of the runes from time to time. Can't imagine playing it as pure mage and having to wave all those complicated figures, while being bullrushed by evul knight things.
You could store up to 3 spells and have them at ready through quick keys. I would cast as i went and have some spells like fireball or invisibility stored for those times where i panicked and needed something fast.
 

Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
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It still means you have to draw them first. It would be okay gimmick if well executed, but pixelhunting the right pattern just to have your mundane fireball ready is bleh mechanic.
 

ColCol

Arcane
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
1,731
I remember having to stab final boss five million times with my sword.
 

Invictus

Arcane
The Real Fanboy
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Messages
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Location
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Divinity: Original Sin 2
Hey Ash this game could use a bit of the love you gave to Deus Ex, it doesnt have any "worst" issues but tweaking its melee and and maybe adjusting the AI would be great. It still such a great game...I remeber in one of my first jobs trying to read the first reviews when it came out and daydreaming of buying it since it was a fairly limited release and hard to get in Mexico

I agree. It's on my radar, but like I said...life. Furthermore after pushing so hard for the incline and design progression in my last project for years only for it to meet 3% the downloads that the low quality Revision mod got, well my heart isn't in non-profit as much as it used to be. It's not what I bring to the table that matters, ultimately.
Yeah well I played it snd it was amazing the sort of mod which breaths new life a 20 year old game to replay with a smile on your face. If you managed to get a team of moders together to do your own thing I would back it ina ny second, you are artist and even though you didnt mod for money or glory, but Some recognition woukd have been welcome. Still give it some time...
 

Electryon

Savant
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Stuck on Axeoth
The rune-drawing is a fairly useless gimmick, but since you can store 3 spells it's not too much of an issue. The key to Arx Fatalis is the dungeon design, which is phenomenal. It was designed and intended to be Ultima Underword 3, they just couldn't end up getting the license in the end for whatever reason. So while waiting the year or more Underworld Ascendant is going to take to come out, the 3rd game in the series has existed for years already.
 

Siobhan

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It still means you have to draw them first. It would be okay gimmick if well executed, but pixelhunting the right pattern just to have your mundane fireball ready is bleh mechanic.
The pattern recognition works fairly well in Arx Libertatis once you realize that small gestures get recognized more easily than large ones.

More importantly, what you consider a bleh mechanic meant that it was important to plan ahead, and that certain boss fights where you needed more than your three pre-buffered spells could get really intense. In addition, it wasn't just a random mapping of runes to spells, there was a compositional system in place and if you studied that you could discover spells on your own. That beats the standard boring-ass "find spells and pick them from a list" mechanic hands-down even if the implementation is sometimes finicky.

If there's something to complain about, it's that they didn't go far enough since a compositional system is perfect for creating an infinite set of expressions while they still stuck with a finite number of spells. Until somebody takes that final step, Arx Fatalis has one of the best magic systems around. Damn, just talking about it got me in the mood to fire up an old save to hear the familiar chants of aam mega yok, aam mega yok, aam mega yok.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
7,049
It's a pity that the development of Arx Libertatis seems to have stalled.
 

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