Skyrim is worse than Oblivion in every way

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Prediction: Fallout Online on HEROENGINE 2014

Free2play. Pay2win.

I hope it's Free to Play, so I can at least whine about it documented.

Another thing that Daggerfall has, which other TES games do not.

If you join a disreputable guild - Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood - and/or if you sink deep enough into the villain reputation and/or if you don't have a high personality - people stop talking to you. Completely! That is a terrible consequence in a game where you need to talk to people to find quest locations or to obtain work.

People know who you are, they don't like you, and they don't want anything to do with you. They already know that the last time you casually asked where someone lives, he ended up robbed or dead. You can't approach a single person, because they are shaking in fear at the sight of you. Words don't come out of their mouths, because they freeze. So simple, but so effective.

This is something which is totally missing and totally necessary in later TES games. There should be a negative consequence for the near impunity and abuse of power and privilege you get by being a high ranking assassin and thief. There is also a threshold point beyond which authorities don't care if you did your time, if you paid up for past crimes, or whatever. You commit too many serial crimes and they will kill you on sight.

Doesn't Charm or Fortify personality help?

Yeah sure, but isn't that still a price to pay. You must cast a spell or carry a magical item before talking to anybody if you are a disreputable character.

problem is that Guards often end up as annoyence when you get high enough level rather then something to be feared when you are Evil Darklord level 89 with full set Daedric armor and swords.

Oblivion better than skyrim in every way? Yep, that's the codex high on nostalgia juice again. It's amazing how quickly that stuff starts to work, I thought it only worked for games pre-2000. I think it is getting more potent.

Dozens of pages of people disagreeing, some even saying Skyrim's pretty good, and almost nobody apart from the OP thinking it's actually worse in every way... but it's in a thread title, therefore it is what THE ENTIRE CODEX THINKS OMG HIVEMIND, right? Amazing how that works.

Well in Morrowind being a vampire have similar results, no one wants talk to you besides some mages or other vampires, you can't trade, use transport (only phylons in fortreses), to bad only its so little to do as a vampire (only one vampire clan short quest line)

Yeah, sure. I think that mostly the people that support the idea, are just trying to be edgy.

Bahamut said

The same reason that EA and lucas Arts created TOR online because they think that there is money to be made from it plus it is something that elder scrolls fans have been asking for, for years now. Zenimax media want a piece of the pie and look like they've been listening to der fans.

too bad they listened to the wrong fans though...

Another evil of democracy than.

Luzur said

yep

Commissar Draco said

yep again.

Not a big fan of MMORPG so don't care if it lives or dies, I am like Switzerland on this; neutral

By the way, they really need to get more innovative with the daedric artifacts in this series.

The Sanguine Rose serves the exact purpose it did in Daggerfall from 1996.

Making the same reward for each game for 15 continuous years? That's just a bankruptcy of ideas.

Not even that - just backpedal and keep swinging.

Given that you only get rep hit once guard's attack actually connect it's the way to fuck everyone over.

Also lycanthropy.

What if you're really fucking subtle with your killing or stealing? What if you don't let anything connect you with your crimes?

That's the problem I have with "people know you're in EEEVIIIL secretive guild and don't like it".

Yeah, I liked how Daggerfall didn't magically reset your legal reputation once you've served your time.

Morrowind wasn't as good in this regard, but at least if you fucked up hard you had death penalty, not "serve your time and all is forgiven".

Shit's got nothing on Holy Grail, mang.

DraQ
Some of those elements are already there. In some form, I guess.

There were serious consequences other than prison time. You could get exiled from a province, and be told that if you ever return, you will be killed on sight. Same as Morrowind, right?

When I was in the Thieves Guild, I botched a robbery by bothering to kill the other competing Rogues who were in the room where I was stealing a gem. Whereas I was supposed to just get the gem and get out of there without entering confrontation with the other Rogues. Consequence was being told to get out of town and not getting paid. Now that is harsh.

Also, I think I was a pretty unsubtle assassin in that I had no problems with guard massacres once I killed the target in the Mages Guild or a Palace. Even though I had Invisibility and Stealth and could have left without a fight, I made the wrong choice, and I think the punishment was being known as a mass cop killer. Apparently, the game expects you to avoid killing guards and run away, irrespective of how strong you are. Maybe if I avoided fighting, this reputation loss would never happen. (That said, maybe the consequence is the same even if you avoid it?)

On an unrelated note, Morrowind's Find the Dark Brotherhood quest was good. Damn good. Way better than the Oblivion or Skyrim equivalent, obviously, but also better than the Daggerfall one. A Brotherhood assassin comes to kill you. You tell the guards. They send you to Ebonheart, near Seyda Neen. The captain of the guard and a councillor mage advise sending you to the city of Mournhold on the mainland part of Morrowind, away from the volcanic island. Then you search around the fairly large city of Mournhold until you find a sewer entrance. Then it's a race in the branching sewer network to find them. Very well done.

Also, Morrowind had one very very simple, but very very interesting quest. A kidnapped tax collector is held in a Telvanni Wizard's home. You find the collector imprisoned in the basement. And you find a summoning room with Daedroth and Dwemer Centurion guarding a Telvanni Wizard. Ask him about his tax non-payment and his forced detention of the people there. The wizard tells you he was there in the town before the Imperial soldiers ever came. He was there before Gnisis was formed. He was there before the previous kingdom ruling the area was established. In his centuries of long living, he saw empires and kingdoms come and go in his area. And he doesn't owe them a single thing, because he was the one who settled there long before anyone else. And he could just kill everybody in town if he felt like it, Imperials included, but he doesn't do so, because he tolerates them. How can you argue against that - he was totally right. He wasn't under the town's protection or its mercy - it was the other way round.

I am saying all this, because I think my Morrowind thread was made whilst eclipsing all the good moments from the game. Truth be told, I still feel some discomfort at the slowness of the game - compared to the rapid pace of Daggerfall and Arena. But wow, these moments. Such as seeing Vivec for the first time and all that. What an only-one-of-its-kind game, even though I think it sucks.

Well, the Morrowind quest is not really comparable to those in the other games, as the Dark Brotherhood is an opponent of the player in Morrowind. Morrowind's Dark Brotherhood equivalent are the Morag Tong.

Absolutely. I meant as in the exposure or introduction to the group for the first time.

I look forward to the day where someone says Skyrim is better than TES Online, when everyone knows the latter is actually a much better game. This is going to be hilarious.

Most interesting quest he gave you was the one researching the Dwemer disappearance. He's only one of the most interesting NPCs in the game (well, all Telvanni are). Compare him to that clown Dwemer researcher in Skyrim.

I know what you meant, but the comparison doesn't make any sense. The Dark Brotherhood doesn't technically even exist as faction in Morrowind, the game. Your only exposure may be some writ given to you during a Morag Tong quest. What you were describing was the beginning sequence of the first big expansion pack of the game, which better be a bit more special than a standard guild quest start.

I don't agree at all with this thread's title, Skyrim is a modern days TES game and hence more of character-action game than a rpg at all but it is a vast improvement to Oblivion, forgeting that wicked interface of course (who the hell came up with the idea of those freaking constelations for skill treess?? not that the rest of the interface is any good, but man that tree is very likely the worst idea in the long history of utter interface failures, lmao(in that regard Oblivion was so MUUUUUUUCH better).