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Skyrim is worse than Oblivion in every way

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
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32,828
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Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Something of value?
Most of them wouldn't resort to banditry if they had something of value.

You know, that "may pay off my bounty this time, walk into city as free man" thing some mutter when not in combat?
so whats the catch? it cant be that perfect.

its incompatible with half of my mods?, it will burn my processor over time??
There is even Requiem 1.8+ patch for it:

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/58141/?
 

Luzur

Good Sir
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
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Swedish Empire
4rZKSLf.png
 
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
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Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
Jesus Christ, just something that would have made clearing it out worth my while. Would have been happy with a few arrows and some lockpicks.

Wait, you got literally nothing then? Because just clearing one camp will get you a few hundred moneys if you loot everything. Even the losers hanging behind Whiterun's castle have some nice stuff.
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
627
Location
Seattle, WA
Skyrim was so banal, and linear, for hiring on so many level designers, it felt linear in compare to a modded out Oblivion.

Back to Dark Souls.

Blood Dragon, with its backwards flying dragons, says it all. EPIC is so over used, it needs a beating with sharp sticks nowadays.
 

Machocruz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
4,374
Location
Hyperborea
So this is probably useless at this point, but I've done some testing on the game using my 'optimal role-playing' method which entails making various builds and running through the game doing only that content which is relevant to each build. I've distilled the game to its most worthwhile elements so as to save new players from wasting time on all the rubbish in this game.

First, you're going to want to focus on the following skills: Enchanting, Sneak, Archery, Light or Heavy Armor, Illusion. These are the best the game has to offer.

Illusion is the most interesting spell school in a game that is completely underwhelming in the spell department in terms of selection and effects. And even then, you only really want mass fury, mass calm, and invisibility.

Archery, combined with a high Sneak, is the most fun form of combat in the game. Dovhakin Sniper.

Take Sneak, but forget Lockpicking. There is nothing good in chests of any level. This isn't Morrowind.

Enchanting replaces all the other spell schools, pretty much. Now, because the spell selection and effects are what they are, don't expect much out of this. No levitation ring for you. But it's still useful to beef up your character.

I didn't list One Handed. Take it if you want or need it, I guess. Archery with x times damage from Sneak and perks is your bread and butter.

As far as any builds you may have in mind: it doesn't matter. The experience changes only slightly and superficially, so don't even bother. The most interesting thing you can make would be some kind of Night Blade character, which is an assassin who uses Illusion school. It's fun to frenzy or fear a group and then sneak behind and slit their throats with a dagger. If you don't want to sneak around, then just make a two-handed fighter who uses heal spells and archery.

The way you're going to want to play the game is to go full hiking sim. Wander the earth and get into shit as it interests you. Don't bother investing in guild questlines unless convenient. Do the main quest up until the first dragon you fight, then go nomad. The Illusion school will help liven things up as you can manipulate NPCs with it for some MGS style sandbox fun. Take radiants if and when you want. The point is to discover what's in the world, fight shit, cause trouble. That's the best you can do in this game. I missed a bunch of stuff following the script. Didn't even find any Standing Stones or Dwemer ruins until I went nomad.

Bethesda are just too conservative to make anything truly interesting anymore. They lack flair. Everything is pretty average, milquetoast. No sky splitting spells or good treasure or ambitious dungeon layouts. No flexibility in quest solutions. I think they need to pick a focus and go the extra mile: either combat crawl with majestic spells and luscious loot, or narrative focused with multiple approaches to quests. Of course, your average Xbox scrub is fine with things the way they are, but my words aren't for the lower classes.
 

Caim

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
15,704
Location
Dutchland
I found Paralysis to be a very useful Illusion spell as well when dealing with single opponents: hit them with it and they're dead meat.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,854
I found facerolling on my keyboard to be the best tactic in vanilla for combat and to get the best gear, it also works in dialogue.
 

JesusGreen

Novice
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
14
Arena:
- Innovative hear one thing at a time soundtrack (and resultant get surprise gang-banged by a horde of everything gameplay)
- Fucking huge, but repetitive due to procedural generation
- God awful combat even by 20 years ago standards
- But it gave us TES so I'll forgive them a little.

Daggerfall:
- Also fucking huge and less noticeably obvious in its repetitiveness, so can be played for forever and a day pretty satisfactorily
- Combat is pretty clunky by today's standards but it was good when it came out
- Story is actually worth mentioning here since the quests and background feel more real and fleshed out, though you still lose immersion from the rather obvious shit
- Has the kinda shit nerdy RP fucks like me enjoy like buying your own house just for the hell of it
- Had a pretty fucking brilliant balance of starting off feeling like you're not sure if you can rely on your past D&D/other RPG/previously read-up knowledge or if it's going to fail you and violate you with a rake when a bunch of the skills you choose end up being worthless - then going to pretty epic dominating bastard that destroyed everything over the course of the game. Most games now just try to keep the balance the same throughout the game, or even increase the difficulty as you go - if you ask me, a good RPG you should start off feeling like a crippled blind toddler trying to find your way in the world but end up feeling like a god/destroyer of worlds, it makes for more build variety and progression
- HALT! HALT! HALT!

Morrowind:
- In my opinion the best ratio of attention to detail to amount of landmass, the map was smaller than the other games but aside from when you were in the emptier parts of the ash valleys you were always 5-6 metres from some cave or building or village or secret item or quest NPC, I still find random shit today that makes me go "Wtf how was this right here all along"
- I know not everyone liked it but I think they handled what was in its core essence a really cliché main story concept by turning it into something that was gradually sprung onto the player over a series of gradual steps starting with little discovery quests and books leading up to the eventual realisation that oh all that shit they were talking about is actually deeply related to you and why you're there, and for that reason it still pulled it off pretty fucking well if you ask me
- Dunmer/Vvardenfell culture was pretty nifty, you gotta admit, had a weird Silk road/ancient China meets stereotypical sci-fi Alien planet vibe.
- Animations were terrible and dialogue while being awesome in content was bloody jarring at times with how every single NPC in one town would give the exact same line when asked about something, EVERY single time
- Combat relied on stats not player skill and although I was one of the people bitching about it at first after I figured out it wasn't fucked hitboxes and I was missing due to low agility/fatigue/weapon skill I started to enjoy it and it's a shame because I feel like it's the least likely thing to ever come back in a future TES game because so many people whined about it
- Levelling was terribly broken if you didn't want to min-max but had even the slightest OCD, but the redeeming factor for me was that it made RPing a Telvanni mage who'd be the kinda guy to research and plan out everything beforehand more fun when I *was* planning each and every level out manually before going and getting the levels. Masochistic though.
- Soundtrack A+++++
- Awesome UI. I know it was an *ugly* UI, but functionality wise it pretty much had everything we needed except for a better map and for smaller text on lower resolutions. Otherwise it's resizable, can show everything at once, any of the elements can be pinned to show when the menu is down at any time, I kinda shudder thinking about the new UIs when they had the concept down just fine already in TES III and just needed to make it look less ugly.
- It was nice that some enemies were levelled but some weren't, so some areas were naturally dangerous while others scaled, though I think the way they separated it out by creature encounters all being levelled and NPCs all being set levels was odd. (at least that's how I remember it being done)
- Now that the game's had a solid amount of years of the modding community making it better and better, with the Sound & Graphics Overhaul and a few other must have mods this one's my favourite in the series overall, I just wish the game world was larger.


Oblivion:
- The hype was real, real enough to get me to build an entire computer just to be able to play this on high settings, and at the time I was very glad I did. Though now Oblivion looks pretty crappy to me without a ton of graphical mods, too much bloom and moon-face
- Combat was smoother and better animated but like I said before I still prefer an entirely stat-driven combat system, if my character has the dexterity of late-stage parkinsons I shouldn't be able to hit everything so easily, if my character on the other hand is well trained then sure
- Actually hearing voices everywhere was pretty huge in terms of the difference it made to just reading the text as it was back in Morrowind, and honestly for me this was the biggest thing that made me sink so many hours into Oblivion, I just felt more like I was present in the world than having to try to remember the guy's last "Outlander" or "N'Wah" so I could emulate the voice in my head while reading the text
- What the fuck did they do to Argonians.
- The setting was refreshing as was the size, but the world between towns did feel kind of empty compared to what I'd been used to from Morrowind
- Main quest story core idea was kind of mediocre but the finer detail added to it was pretty awesome and I really like the lore that got added here, plus Shivering Isles was awesome
- Soundtrack was slightly less epic when compared to Morrowind's but still a solid A++++
- UI isn't great but is at least decently usable on both PC and console
- Why are these bandits wearing better armour than all the guards now. The economy in Cyrodiil must be worse than ours.

Skyrim:
- This was one of those titles that made me feel really iffy about it at the start and I wasn't sure whether I liked it or not, I felt like it was taking the things I didn't like so much about Oblivion, but after going back to it a few times and sinking a few hundred hours into the game I'm honestly liking it more than Oblivion and in some ways as much as Morrowind.
- UI is fucking terrible unless you're using a controller/console
- I feel like the environmental attention to detail came back here, while I didn't find the dungeons to be too new in their layout/look (other than some of the unique hidden spots that you'd find by say using whirlwind sprint etc) they were still well designed and had some nice little details about their occupants and what was going on inside with every dungeon usually having its own back-story, the same is true for almost every location in the over-world, and the landscape in between while obviously being somewhat limited by the icy climate of the province still has more variation than Oblivion's by far
- The cities/towns were disappointingly small, though the themes and layout of them were pretty awesome, I just wish more of them were like Markarth where they at least gave an illusion of bigger size where there wasn't any
- I spent a *LOT* of time hating the new levelling/perks, but, I'm gonna be honest, they've grown on me, and I actually think it's a good direction that'll allow for the kind of skill diversity that they had in Morrowind/Daggerfall while not throwing a bunch of redundant skills on new players who don't know what they're doing at the start, especially once they've improved it in future games. To add to that I'm glad they don't make you pick anything beyond a name and race at the start because I honestly thought they'd taken out the racial bonuses as a result and started just playing races that I wanted to play rather than letting my anal OCD take over and pick based on stats, and I had more fun as a result, especially since I normally spend 2139821983 hours planning a character before I play, and here I've never had to do that, but still end up with a similarly detailed build, it just grows as I play a character
- The levelling feels more natural here than Oblivion, particularly because the bandits don't look like they're trying to set up a bling enterprise in all their shiny shit like they did there.
- The sort of cinematic elements of the story where events occurred for the first time (climbing High Hrothgar, the first dragon fight etc) were well set out and actually had me taking note of those moments to praise later.
- Graphically the game is solid and the character creation is too, but I feel they need some more slider freedom like Oblivion (just not quite as much), as mods like RaceMenu that add it really make it 10x easier to get a nice looking character (and that'd do a lot for the game if it was applied to most of the NPCs, many of whom look a little too alike)
- Unfortunately I feel like they made the solutions to puzzles/quests a bit more one-track in nature here than previous games, for example there's a certain quest where you solve a murder much like the Ripper murders from Whitechapel in England, well my first time arriving there I'd guessed who the killer was right away, snuck into his house, found his fucking journal where he admitted to killing people, and still I had to progress through like 10 steps of investigation before the quest eventually allowed me to arrest someone, who wasn't even that guy, only for me to have to hop online, find a walkthrough, realise you have to get to that stage and then go to an entirely different guy and tell him he's suspect (when he blatantly isn't the killer) before you even get the option to investigate further, then you have to catch the guy red-handed.. So basically, a random shop-keeper accuses a highly noble in the Jarl's court of murder and I just have to accuse him and he's carted off, but I find said shop-keeper's written murder confessions and I can't question him, or tell anyone about it. Shame, these instances had some really good ideas but they were always executed in a very exact manner if you wanted to complete them, no freeform element, particularly with the civil war situation where you only really had one opportunity to change sides if you weren't happy with your initial siding.
- Main story is similar to the last games in many respects, but I like how it was handled
- Soundtrack was great of course, I like it as much as Morrowind's, particularly now that Morrowind tracks themselves have returned with the Dragonborn expansion.

Just my thoughts on the series as a whole.

I enjoy everything from Daggerfall onwards personally, and Morrowind is the one that will always stand out to me as the hallmark of what a TES game should feel like, but Oblivion tried a lot of new things, some it executed well, some pretty awfully, but I feel they actually had some balls with Skyrim and rather than just ditching the stuff people complained about in Oblivion they took the new concepts and improved them - I think in most areas Skyrim was an improvement on Oblivion, the only major downside when comparing the two is how small the towns in Skyrim tend to feel, or the environment colour since it has almost a slight sepia tint to everything and snow can get boring pretty quick if you don't travel far enough to be rid of it.
 
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,876,057
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
So I was looking around the wiki and discovered that there's unique dialogue for that minuscule window of time where jarl Balgruuf says he'll lead you to the court wizard on the next room, in case you run ahead of him like a spastic ADHD millennial and initiate the dialogue yourself.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Farengar_Secret-Fire


Note: You can run ahead of Jarl Balgruuf, skipping the above dialogue, and tell Farengar directly "The Jarl said you had a project you needed help with." He will respond "Hmm? What? Project? You think you could help me? I really don't think so." However, depending on your magic skills, you may be able to persuade him that you could be useful:

Dialogue | Option Condition | Farengar's Response

"Hmm. I think you're overheating that essence of spriggan sap..." | Alchemy >= 25 | "What? I'm not even... ah, I see. You have some knowledge of the alchemical art."

"Isn't it dangerous to leave filled soul gems near an unwarded pentacle?" | Enchanting >= 25 | "Where? I would never... ah, I see. You are a fellow enchanter."

"Look out - you're about to step in your own Shock Rune." | Any magic school >= 25 |"What? I never even cast... ah, I see. You have some knowledge of the Higher Art."

"Never mind. I'll wait for Jarl Balgruuf." | "The Jarl can be found in the Great Hall, probably sitting on his Jarl's throne. Not over here in a wizard's laboratory."

There are even skill checks, too...the rune one is a bit "[Intelligence]" though, since the caster can't accidentally trigger his own runes. Also it's called Lightning Rune. But still...

Todd...y u do dis?
 

Caim

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
15,704
Location
Dutchland
So I was looking around the wiki and discovered that there's unique dialogue for that minuscule window of time where jarl Balgruuf says he'll lead you to the court wizard on the next room, in case you run ahead of him like a spastic ADHD millennial and initiate the dialogue yourself.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Farengar_Secret-Fire

Meaningless C&C

There are even skill checks, too...the rune one is a bit "[Intelligence]" though, since the caster can't accidentally trigger his own runes. Also it's called Lightning Rune. But still...

Todd...y u do dis?
 

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