Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Discussion in 'Strategy Gaming' started by Turisas, Apr 12, 2014.

  1. Art Vandelaygender: ⚧ Arbiter

    Art Vandelay
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    just play Alpha Centauri...
     
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  2. Space Satangender: ⚧ Arcane

    Space Satan
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    Forced myself and tried several parties. Tried hard to have fun but failed. The game simply too boring and dumbed down to be at least somehow appealing. They still have ony TWO options for promotions - +10% to combat str. or instant healing. Combat is bland, techs mostly boring aтв all victory modes are still an utter bullshit. So no, no amount of patches will fix it.
    it horrifies me that there are people, who pay money for this crap. Especially given that Firaxis set price so high on BE and addons.
     
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  3. MadMaxHellfiregender: ⚧ Magister

    MadMaxHellfire
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    there aren't only people who pay for this. there are a lot of people who PRAISE this.
     
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  4. Space Satangender: ⚧ Arcane

    Space Satan
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    Fortunately RT got shitty ratings at Metacritic.
     
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  5. tulusegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    tuluse
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    Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    So Steam Spy's venn diagram maker is pretty coo. Did one with Civ3,4,5, and BE http://steamspy.com/audience/3900/8930/65980/3910

    Interesting that Civ3-5 have huge overlap especially when compared with another strategy series like Heroes of Might and Magic:



    Also interesting is absolutely 0 overlap between Civ 3 and Beyond Earth. I find that hard to believe since I think there was a Civ bundle and surely some of those bundle buyers bought BE*. Still, very slight overlap between 4 and BE too. Talk about leaving your core audience behind. To be fair though, this could be the change of setting from historical to scifi.

    To anyone looking for hope, there is a slim chance BE has to be huge disappointment compared to Civ5. Yeah, it was clearly a rush job, but still dropping from 8 million sales to 1 million has to sting. Counting physical copies, Civ4 has probably outsold BE.


    *Checked after I wrote this. The diagrams are apparently not accurate with more than 3 games. Removing Civ 4 does show 125k overlap between Civ3 and BE (http://steamspy.com/audience/8930/65980/3910).
     
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  6. Jaedargender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Jaedar
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  7. MilesBeyondgender: ⚧ Savant

    MilesBeyond
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    Worth noting that this could at least partially be caused by many people owning GOG or physical copies of many 4X games. Actually Civ is one of the few series I do have on Steam - and even then it's because getting Civ III and IV on sale for a couple of bucks was less effort than trying to remember where I put my CDs
     
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  8. tulusegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    tuluse
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    Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    Sorry about that. I even tested the urls, but apparently my cache saved me.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Space Satangender: ⚧ Arcane

    Space Satan
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    CivV popularity came from Steam and digital distribution. CivIV had this atrocious GaySpy, which resulted in near-nonfunctional multiplayer, plus it had to be bought on discs when it came up.
     
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  10. Morblotgender: ⚧ Savant Patron

    Morblot
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    They also gave you a copy of Civ V for free for preordering XCOM: Enemy Unknown. That's how I got it. Don't know how many copies that accounts for, though.

    Now, Beyond Earth. Does it have any redeeming qualities? I already know it's not Alpha Centauri, but I admit to liking Civ V, though it is not without its faults.
     
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  11. Zboj Lamignatgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    It's a reskin of V so if you like it then I guess...?

    BE is V with less civs, less units and so on. Some new stuff like "quests" and affinities tacked on. The sf side of things is a complete joke, the gameplay is 100% V so on normal speed you spend dozens of turns building stuff that gives you +2 food and harnessing super mysterious alien resources that give you +1 production.

    There's a demo so try it. I'm not sure if the recent expansion improved things a lot and the demo doesn't include it obviously.
     
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  12. Morblotgender: ⚧ Savant Patron

    Morblot
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Are the "quests" as interesting as they are in the base game? I'm referring to those pesky city states begging me to build a road or a trade route or whatever for some negligible influence.

    Thanks for the tip about the demo. And regarding the expansion, it sure sounds like a ton of fun!:
     
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  13. MadMaxHellfiregender: ⚧ Magister

    MadMaxHellfire
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    absolutely not. it manages to be much worse in every way possible.

    quests in be are "you built this? pick one of those two boni"
     
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  14. tulusegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    tuluse
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    Oddly, my friends and I had way easier time with Civ4 multiplayer. You could just do direct IP, it worked with hamachi, we could play games where 2 people where in one house and other players were in another. Plus you could play modded games in multiplayer.

    I do agree the first 100% digitally distributed Civ made Civ5 more popular.

    But I didn't mean to point out the growth in popularity from 4 to 5 but the correlation of ownership. Basically everyone who owns Civ 3 owns both 4 and 5, almost none of them own BE.
     
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  15. Make America Great Again cvvgender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    This. Civ5 in the current state is very good actually. BE was boring, drab and uninspired at release and it seems for the addon they replaced the trace amounts of interesting stuff with more boredom and spreadsheetiness.

    Civ5 and XCOM were salvaged by addons and mods. Seems this crap is beyond repair.
     
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  16. Aziragender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Azira
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    I see what you did there. :hahyou:
     
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  17. Morblotgender: ⚧ Savant Patron

    Morblot
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Well, I played the 100 turns of the demo. It wasn't horribad, but it wasn't good either. The technologies and virtues seemed underwhelming, the little diplomacy I experienced was standard Civ V fare and for some reason it was really hard to see that damn miasma on the map. The music was pretty good though.

    No way am I paying 39.99 € for the full version.
     
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  18. Monaldiniogender: ⚧ Literate

    Monaldinio
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  19. Asherygender: ⚧ Prophet

    Ashery
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    So, I got into this quite heavily and I've got some feedback.

    First off, map settings:
    Code:
    Huge
    Marathon
    Raging Barbarians
    No Tech Brokering
    No Expansion or Fan Expansion Factions
    Half of the victory conditions removed.
    
    This is pretty much my classic SMAC setup when playing as the Gaians (Well, SMAC maps are larger, so I generally stick to normal sizes there), and while I know the more aggressive mindworms favor the Gaians, it feels as though things are completely broken in the mod.

    So, the Gaians get a +1 Nutrient bonus for Xenofungus in both versions, but in SMAC this is damn near useless in the early game and only gradually ramps up to being powerful at the very end of the tech tree once you've unlocked the other Xenofungus resource bonuses due to the fact that Xenofungus overrides all innate tile production. But in CoC, not only does Xenofungus retain the resources production from the tile underneath, but you also benefit from the +2 resources from the Energy/Mineral/Nutrient Bonuses. On top of *that*, you can outright build Field Labs on top of strategic resources without removing the Xenofungus. My capitol had two tiles producing four food right out of the gate (Nutrient Bonus and Monolith; both in Xenofungus) and the running average for every other tile worked was also around two food. I had serious health issues in the early game so my capitol's size was limited a bit initially, but once I unlocked the various health boosting strategic resources and expanded aggressively (More on that later), it's been in a constant population boom: 17 people and I've still got a surplus of +7 with one pop working as a specialist.

    What's more, however, is that I seem to be the only faction capable of fighting the natives. Lal got knocked out very quickly; I'm hestiant to say that it was in the first dozen or so turns, but it sure felt that way. Miriam lost her capitol in the early/mid game transition. And everyone else save for Santiago is stuck on three or four bases...While I'm now sitting on twenty and with plans for five more. But even in Santiago's case, she might have seven bases but one of them is a five pop base that still hasn't expanded its boarders. Earlier in the game colony count was a bit closer to parity, but the combination of my absurd Planet Attitude (+8 early on; now +9) that gave me +24% vs native life and the innate double movement Gaian units get in Xenofungus meant that no one could compete with my rate of expansion.

    Back in the early/mid game transition (I had just produced a couple Isle of the Deeps; a tech I got by blowing a Transcend immediately after researching the prior tech), I saw University sending a massive fleet of Gun Boats my direction. We had open boarders at the time, but I thought for sure he was heading over to backstab me. Turns out that the other factions simply need more than a dozen ships in a fleet in order to stand a chance against native life, especially the Fungal Towers. I, however, only needed to produce a couple Isle of the Deeps, use their starting experience to give them the Empath Song ability (+25% vs native life, 100% chance to capture native life when they're defeated), and in conjunction with my absurd Planet Attitude I was on my way to having a fleet of 61 Isles that cost no upkeep once I got the technique down. At the very least, Empath Song shouldn't have a 100% chance to capture native life.

    Which brings me to my second major balance gripe: Unity Pods are incredibly broken when it comes to providing technologies. As it stands, they will provide you with a full free tech...despite the fact that the cheapest tech I can research costs a bit over 11k tech points. This is an issue that's come up largely because of the map size (More pods) and aggressive native life (AI has difficulty getting them), but it's definitely something that needs to be addressed. My suggestion would be to scale their bonus based on the tech's tier, and to apply the bonus to the tech you're currently researching instead of a random tech. For the bonus, I'd suggest something like 50% T1, 33% T2, 25% T3, etc., with a minimum bonus of 10%. Of course, these bonuses would need to scale based on the speed of the game as well (10% is nothing on Quick), but they'd make a good starting point for Marathon. It's a dramatic nerf for sure, but it's absurdly broken at the moment and it's still significantly more useful than a Unity Foil in the middle of half a dozen Isles. Hilariously, the bonus credits I get as a result of Hypnotic Trance are what's keeping my economy afloat. Despite currently hemorrhaging 106 credits each turn and 50+ for most of the game, I'm still sitting on a stockpile of 10k+. Some of that came from selling tech, but I'm sure I'd still have a modest stockpile without that trading.

    tldr: Gaians OP, Empath Song OP, Tech from Unity Pods OP.

    Other thoughts:

    Monoliths are buggy when it comes to native lifeforms as they give Morale 1 instead of Lifecycle 1.

    Centauri Preserve wonder feels pretty useless right now. Sure, it gives an immediate +1 Planet Attitude, but it does nothing to actually keep it up. But maybe that's just because the jump from 8 to 9 PA feels less meaningful than the jump from -0.4 to 0.6 PA.

    The University being able to avoid the No Tech Brokering setting seems really gamey. It's useless when the setting isn't used, and is horribly OP if used when the player is playing as University.

    Other factions often seem really underpowered. Lal is the big one here.

    Genejack Factories feel a bit overpowered. The +2 production bonus for Technicians means that they're producing as much as tiles with average productivity ("Productivity" being a combination of food and minerals) and makes them one of the best choices for your free specialists. Or, god forbid, you happen to play on settings like mine and get 7+ Technicians in a single city as a result of Supply Trawlers.

    There needs to be more information available on the new victory conditions introduced. I'm reluctant to pick up my original game again due to not understanding the new victory conditions.

    The AI needs to be flagged to defend Material Supplies it sends back to its towns. Despite my aggressive exploration, the only one I was able to grab was stolen from Hive's doorstep. Not sure if this is really possible, but it's worth looking into. This might've been some fluke, however.

    Ridges seem a bit useless for Hybrid based economies. Your only non-PV hurting option is Windmills and Solar Collectors. Best idea I've come up with is to focus on putting potential Mines and Farms on ridges in order to maximize the amount of low lying terrain you have available for Xenofungus or Hybrid Forests. With weaker conditions, you're better off not even improving the ridge tile and just making the pop a specialist.

    The -2 PV for Edens seems to be a bit excessive. Either scale the -PV growth back (0.5 -> 0.75...->1.25) or drop the initial -PV down to 0 (0 -> 0.5...->1.5). As it stands Edens have a -PV that's equivalent to a god damn *borehole*. Hell, combining the two might be best (0.25 -> 0.5...->1.0).

    On a similar note, bump the -PV up for Mines (0.75 would likely be ideal, but 1.0 might also work depending on how Farms get balanced) and boreholes (Between 2.5 and 3.0).

    Not sure how I feel about food being used for the production of Formers and native units.

    ----------
    Pretty sure that about covers things. It might seem like I'm overly critical of the mod, but I've been enjoying the hell out of it this past weekend.
     
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  20. Make America Great Again The Brazilian Slaughtergender: ⚧ Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    Need to grab this.

    The native life is indeed quite powerful, especially on the sea.
    One feedback I wanted to give a few years ago was exactly that. Ever try playing Pirates? Good luck! Its pretty much SMAX: Pirates vs Worms. Even Empaths and Trance become useless. And because the Flowering Counter keeps rising, they just get stronger. The seas are infested with native life, to the point even exploiting sea resources get ultra-annoying because your base keeps having IoDs move in their coasts.
     
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  21. Make America Great Again Renegengender: ⚧ Arcane

    Renegen
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    Hey Ashery, nice to see you playing the same old games as before. One question for the latest version of best mod of Civ4, does it have the dumb Mass Effect factions in?
     
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  22. Monaldiniogender: ⚧ Literate

    Monaldinio
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    thank you very much for your detailed review!
    you were not too critical .
    Your Critic will find def. the Way into the mod! Thanks you!
     
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  23. exegender: ⚧ Savant

    exe
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    Technicians and Engineers both give +2 minerals, 2 buildings boost the technician up to +6 but there is no boost for engineers. Why not have the buildings give a bonus to both? No engineers are useless after you get a genejack factory.
     
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  24. Monaldiniogender: ⚧ Literate

    Monaldinio
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    On the l
    On the list!
    I think it would be the best 1 builing boost the technican, the other (genejack) boost the engineers.
     
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  25. Asherygender: ⚧ Prophet

    Ashery
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    <3

    Not sure if they're the ME factions or not (I've never played the series), but both the official expansion and fan expansion factions can be disabled on map setup. It might affect the balance and/or gameplay adversely as the new factions get introduced upon researching some important T3/T4 techs and likely chance the game dynamics, but I've played enough SM:AC that I just default to disabling them right off the bad.

    Guess that just cements my criticism that high PA setups are OP. I was poking around my game last night, and I realized that I had only trained a single Isle of the Deep the entire game; everything else was captured. Not having your issues with the Flowering Counter, though. In fact, my issue is the exact opposite as I've yet to really see the counter rise significantly despite the fact that I'm well into the mid game. Maybe it's the fact that I'm running on Marathon game length.

    Also, the documentation on what techs speed up the research of others seems to be spotty. When you're prompted to research a new tech, it'll display "Sped up by <x>." for various techs, but when you go to the actual research menu (F6), there's nothing displayed. That makes things a bit difficult to plan one's research path around.
     
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