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Sherlock Holmes: The Devil's Daughter

Vaarna_Aarne

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That screenshot of the trapeze minigame has me trying to deduce whether or not I'll get this on Steam after I've upgraded my computer at some point during the summer, or on a console. It looks suspiciously like it'll be a real pain on a keyboard.
 

Norfleet

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I cannot imagine how anything could somehow be worse when you have an actual keyboard vs. when you can only manipulate things with your thumbs. Besides, nothing stops you from plugging your shitty controller into an actual computar. ALWAYS GET REAL COMPUTAR. Where you been, anyway, Vaarna?
 

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That screenshot of the trapeze minigame has me trying to deduce whether or not I'll get this on Steam after I've upgraded my computer at some point during the summer, or on a console. It looks suspiciously like it'll be a real pain on a keyboard.
same, except nothing about consoles
 

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Zombra

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I was surprised to see a $50 sticker price. Even Steam's 20% preorder discount left me in a "no way" frame of mind. But ... I checked green man gaming ... their sticker is $44.99, with 20% preorder discount and a further 20% off for voucher 20OFF ... I was thinking $30 and this brings it below that. Even if there are moles to be popped and a feeble "save the child!!" story beat, reviews are saying that the deductions and interrogations are as good or better than in Crimes & Punishments. So yes, I just contributed to industry decline by preordering.
 

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:flamesaw:
 

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https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/06/10/sherlock-holmes-the-devils-daughter-review/

Impressions: Sherlock Holmes – The Devil’s Daughter
John Walker on June 10th, 2016 at 5:00 pm.

Frogwares’ Sherlock Holmes games have always been very weird. From the early awful fan-fiction-like conflations of Doyle’s work with his contemporaries, complete with evil staring Watson, to the more recent third-person festivals of terribleness, they’ve not managed to be good, but they’ve certainly managed to be strange. And yup, that’s not changing here. The Devil’s Daughter [official site] is like a fever dream, but a fever dream that’s been really badly made. Here’s my impressions of the first half, because good grief.


Goodness me, time has done well for Holmes and Watson. Eight Sherlock games in, suddenly the titular hero has become a man possibly in his late 20s, with for the first time a brand new young’un’s voice, while the formerly terrifying teleporting Watson has shaved off many decades and become a slim, rakishly handsome fellow with complicated facial hair. Both look distinctly 21st century, despite living in a 19th century world of bonnets and “good sire”s. However, this hasn’t extended to moving to new, trendier digs – it’s the very same flat as in previous games, complete with telescope, although this time it can no longer exclusively be used to perv on the voluptuous lady living across the street. (These games are really weird.)

dev01.jpg


Beyond these sudden, unexplained physical changes, much remains the same following Crimes And Punishments, with Sherlock’s world made of observational minigames and speculative open-ended cases. There remains the good-idea-but-terribly-implemented neuron connections as you put the evidence of your case together, refusing perfectly reasonable connections between directly related subjects, yet sometimes freeform and allowing any answer to be acceptable. And indeed their remains the wildly contradictory insistence that all evidence be found in a scene in the correct order before you can move onward, despite having all necessary information. Once again you can observe characters’ appearance to discern topics to ask them about, or contradict statements they’ve made. And once again you can get these “wrong”, be told your necessarily wild guessing is wrong, but then never be allowed to change those conclusions despite the person being stood there in front of you. Oh, and you have to object a statement they’re making before they’ve actually finished saying it, or time runs out and you’re stuck with accepting the spoken sentence at face value. It’s a game whose logic is entirely bizarro-land.

Sherlock’s investigatory skills enter all-new territories with his ability to eavesdrop on conversations to gain salient facts. Which makes sense, right up until you actually do it. You’re after the identity of a man who’s given a “special job” to your client’s father, and find out whoever it was hangs around in a local pub. So you sit at a table near two chatting fellows, and after keeping two floaty cursors inside a circle with your mouse and WASD keys for a few seconds (no, really), you can hear a single sentence of what they’re saying. “The man who gives the special jobs never drinks alcohol,” one of them says, at which point you instantly stop listening lest you find out anything more. Then you must wander until you find another hotspot, and listen in to the conversation of two others. “The man who gives the special jobs has mutton chop whiskers,” a fellow improbably says to his chum, before you break away to ensure a name or something more useful isn’t overheard. What? Just what?

dev07.jpg


Early on you’re faced with a seemingly interminable stealthy pursuit, where you play as one of Holmes’ Baker St Irregulars, following Mr Mutton Chops through the streets of Whitechapel in what I suppose was supposed to be something a bit like Assassin’s Creed, but instead is a clumsy prescribed route via it’s shopping trolley third-person controls. You must duck into cover (spots marked literally with the word “Cover”) as this complete lunatic incessantly turns around, stands still, and stares behind him. But at certain points there are obstacles, like some mean boys, meaning you have to deviate to the rooftops – could this be fun? No! It’s once again the unique pre-determined path, annoying to navigate, while being told off for losing the suspect despite having been forced to go this way. There’s a ridiculous balancing-on-a-plank minigame, and then as if in parody of itself, a chimney sweeping minigame (yes, you stop to sweep a chimney during your pursuit), and then a shoe-shining minigame.

Oh, and Sherlock Holmes apparently has an adopted daughter. WHAT? I’ve played every Frogwares Sherlock game apart from The Testament, and cannot remember their introducing a daughter character. They certainly didn’t in the last game, and no conceivable explanation is given upon her introduction in this one. On first meeting this wretched creature I immediately wondered if she was the Devil’s Daughter of the title, so demonically presented, her terrifying swivel eyes, and a voice so clearly provided by an adult woman that it felt like a possession.

At which point I began to wonder whether this was some sort of meta-story, a tale told in the head of Watson’s dog after a nasty fall. At any moment Santa would be in a boxing match. (Now there’s a specific reference.)

dev02.jpg


The game drags you by the nose through its so-called investigations, telling you to go to one location and refusing all others, not letting you progress until you’ve hunted around the rooms for every interactive hotspot, telling you what must be done next via your tick-box list… And then, nothing. So often it suddenly stops giving you any direction at all, the tick list ticked, the locations explored, and you have to guess which previous place might have added a new conversation, or that you’re supposed to be “researching” a topic via Holmes’ files. There’s no rationale to this. Find out about a secret meeting, find a map to that meeting, hear that someone is about to set off to that meeting, learn about the history of the place in which the meeting is taking place, but oh no, that location isn’t added to your map after all that. Instead you must stumble about clicking on things you’ve already clicked on in places you’ve already been. And ah, of course, despite having a map of the forest in your documents, and the more specific map of the meeting, you had to guess to click on a map on the wall of Sherlock’s abode to play yet another execrable minigame to get anywhere. Oh, and then connect some neurons. And then get your foot stuck in a beartrap. Honestly, all this is true, but I really think at this point I could say anything.

dev04.jpg


A lot of this gibberish could end up being kitschy hilarity, a game we play with eyebrows raised, wincing at the dreadfulness, but for how laborious it is. The third-person movement remains far better than the completely terrible first-person, but is still like trying to move around while holding a plank out lengthways in front of you. The game decides when “run” will be available to you, meaning you’re far too often forced to trudge about while smearing your face along the walls in case of vital hotspots. And good grief, the load times – they were terrible before, they’re terrible now. Even for one-room scenes – it’s bewildering to know what’s taking it so long.

Cutscenes often begin a few words in, at one point for me the graphics started glitching with chunks of textures flickering white at random around me as if I were having an epileptic episode, and while the voice acting for the main cast is decent, some of it is so bad that it made me regret my decision to have ears.

dev08.jpg


Oh, and it makes you play lawn bowls. But lawn bowls with outrageously ridiculous physics. And a crowd of toffs that actually boo and hiss when a ball finishes too far from the jack. Who boos at bowls?! Three stinking rounds of bowls, idiotically easy, but played at the pace of… well, bowls.

And it never relents with its strangeness. Immediately after the bowls, I meet my new neighbour, a pretty young woman who has taken fondly to Sherlock’s mystery daughter Katelyn. She asks if Katelyn can come to her home to practice piano occasionally, to which you’re given three possible responses:

Refuse: Kate’s education
Refuse harshly
Refuse: Blame piano music

None of the three makes a lick of sense in this contextless moment, let alone the peculiarity of not saying, “Yes please, that sounds splendid.” But forget that, because you’re imminently investigating a murder apparently by a metal Mayan statue.

dev10.jpg


And so it continues, reasonably entertaining if utterly preposterous mysteries with very pretty graphics delivered extraordinarily dreadfully, spoiled by laborious play, terrible controls, no internal logic, and monotonous minigames. One minute you’re playing an axe-chopping-down-a-door minigame, the next a QTE for dodging objects on a staircase, moments earlier or later likely some wildly idiotic DDR-style button timing to forge a sword in a foundry. You play as a dog, you have to switch between Watson and Holmes in a shamingly embarrassing attempt at a Tomb Raider-style block-pushing puzzle delivered via its clodding interface at a glacial pace, you have to do a cog puzzle like it’s pre-rendered 1996. It features a monstrously awful lock picking puzzle again and again, it forever forgets to give you any direction, and oh god it’s sooooo damned slow.

So no, I haven’t finished it. Part of me is completely intrigued to continue, to see how it can get any worse. It is so very similar to Crimes & Punishments, complete with lavishly crafted locations used for throwaway moments, usually completely wasted because all you remember is how Holmes couldn’t walk around a corner, or got stuck on a hatstand, or wouldn’t look at the really incredibly obvious piece of evidence, or any of the several million different ways it manages to be so devastatingly annoying. So no, again, I probably won’t finish it, no matter how perversely intrigued I might be to see where this adopted demon daughter bullshit is heading, because I only have so much hair left and I’ve no desire to meddle with my blood pressure.

Nu Watson and Holmes look dangerously close to Downey Jr and Law, five years too late, and their new voices are bizarrely unenigmatic, if competently delivered. It’s not a reboot, nor a refresh, right down to the repeated locations and character models of the likes of Lestrade, but rather the weirdness of the series continuing its morbidly fascinating spiraling descent into lunacy. If I find myself carrying on, I’ll certainly let you know what happens next, but in the meantime, yeah, avoid.

I’ve played every Frogwares Sherlock game apart from The Testament, and cannot remember their introducing a daughter character

lul
 

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http://www.pcgamer.com/sherlock-holmes-the-devils-daughter-review/

SHERLOCK HOLMES: THE DEVIL'S DAUGHTER REVIEW

If you’ve played any of Frogwares’ other Sherlock adventures, the first thing you’ll notice in The Devil’s Daughter is how Holmes and Watson have changed. Sherlock now looks so much like Mad Men actor Jon Hamm that it has to be intentional, and his faithful colleague’s curiously sculpted facial hair makes him looks like Jude Law at a steampunk convention.

It’s feels like they’ve tried to make the duo look younger and cooler to broaden the appeal of the game, but it just doesn’t fit the characters. Sherlock is far too rugged and handsome, and Watson doesn’t feel like the same person without his bowler hat and moustache. Change is good, and characters can be reinvented, but these new designs almost feel like they betray the characters.

The game is supposedly a prequel, explaining their more youthful appearance. But if that’s the case, why do supporting characters like Mrs. Hudson and Inspector Lestrade look exactly the same?

The previous entry in the series, Crimes and Punishments, was superb. A smart, atmospheric crime adventure, and one of the best detective games on PC. The only thing I didn’t like were the clumsy action sequences and mini-games, and I was disappointed to discover that there are even more of them in The Devil’s Daughter.

The story begins in media res with an injured Sherlock running through a snow-covered forest being shot at by an unseen figure. Then we jump back in time to Baker Street as a tearful boy asks him to find his missing father. Immediately you can tell Frogwares are trying to be more cinematic with this game. Some may prefer this, but for me Sherlock is supposed to be cerebral and slow-paced, not an action movie.

The detecting itself hasn’t changed much. You poke around a series of impressively detailed environments for clues. Then you leap inside Sherlock’s mind and piece what you’ve gathered together. And it’s entirely possible to jump to the wrong conclusion and accuse the wrong person if you haven’t found all the evidence. This is the game’s greatest strength, giving you some genuine agency over how the case unfolds.

I also love that you can choose if you want to find out whether you accused the right person or not. At the end of the case you can press a button to reveal the truth, and are given the option to retry if not.

But then, inevitably, you’re dragged away from being a detective to take part in some clumsy, awkward set-piece or mini-game. One minute you’ll be stalking a suspect as a sooty-faced street urchin, the next you’ll be playing an achingly slow game of lawn bowls.

And the chase through the forest I mentioned earlier is a maddening slog that never seems to end. You lurch from tree to tree, taking cover from a pursuing gunman, using your detective vision to pick a path through a swamp. These scenes are almost entirely boring, frustrating, and badly designed.

You can skip them if you want, which makes me wonder if even the developers knew they were a bit shit. And even then, bypassing them only solves one problem.

Another is that the cases aren’t particularly compelling or well-constructed, especially compared to Crimes and Punishments. Many of the conclusions are abrupt and unsatisfying, and the game’s occasional foray into the supernatural feels hokey and out of place.

In most cases key areas are linked by a limited open-world of sorts. You’re free to wander the cobbled streets of Victorian London, and it’s clear a lot of effort has gone into its construction. There are some nice details here, like an under construction Tower Bridge.

But all it’s really used for is the occasional environmental puzzle where you locate someone’s house with their street name and number. It’s ultimately an unnecessary addition, and I wish they’d used those resources to tighten up and polish the other parts of the game.

There are glimmers of earlier Sherlock games here, with a couple of cases that almost—but not quite—reach the heights of Crimes and Punishments. But overall it’s an inferior sequel that relies too heavily on scripted set-pieces, QTEs, and mini-games. I really wanted to like The Devil’s Daughter, hoping the developers would build on the many things the last game did well, but it’s actually a step backwards in many ways.

HE VERDICT
59

SHERLOCK HOLMES: THE DEVIL'S DAUGHTER

An increased focus on action and unsatisfying cases overshadow the decent bits in this detective adventure.
 

Crooked Bee

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Man, this game really is crap. I never enjoyed this series much, but instead of a traditional albeit mediocre adventure game like the previous Sherlock Holmes ones, I got a subpar popamole hybrid with QTE-based "action" and chase scenes that are also too drawn out for their own good. TellTale are masters of pacing compared to this game.

At least it lets me shoot people in the face, I guess.

14893.jpg


(Sorry about the image quality, I'm playing this on my laptop which only meets the minimum requirements.)
 

Crooked Bee

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So I finished this last night. It does have some good bits. I actually enjoyed the Mayan Temple puzzle sequence, in contrast to most players judging from Steam reviews. The puzzles were easy but nice enough, and I just like puzzles sequences in general I guess.

The action sequences continued to be terrible though. The "stealth" segment was a joke. The QTEs are better left unspoken about.

One thing the game really suffers from, popamolization aside, is the complete linearity. Investigations just can't work like that. It's nice that you can opt for a wrong conclusion (sometimes very early in the case), but those are too obviously wrong and the process of investigation itself - as in exploring A then B then C etc. - is too linear and, frankly, boring. No NPC has anything helpful to say about new evidence after the game decides you've completed their interrogation. Everything is also just way too easy; the difficulty level only influences stuff like hotspots and QTE/timed stuff, which doesn't really matter much.

Oh, and the ending was cringeworthiness central. No idea who thought dialing up the melodrama like that was a good idea, but they have terrible taste.

Basically, everything that's Telltale-like about this game is terrible and much worse than actual Telltale's stuff - I guess it's mostly about pacing and QTE design (I had no idea QTE design was a thing until I played this game). Some puzzles and situations are decent to good. But the linearity of exploration and investigation, and just how static it is, really brings it down. I bought it full price because I just wanted to play something quick and easy, but generally I'd recommend waiting until it's 50 to 75% off.
 

Zombra

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I intended to write a full review of this game, but since I abandoned it after completing only 3 of the 5 cases, I never finished the review either.

tl;dr: Despite some improvements, disappointing after Crimes & Punishments. Holmes is boring now, the daughter is an annoying bitch, and the mysteries are very silly stories about robots and ninjas and impossible to take seriously or solve rationally, completely wasting the series' greatest innovation.

Since I will likely never finish this, here are my incomplete and disordered review notes for anyone who cares. Sadly the gorgeous screenshots I took are lost.
Background:
I recently played and (to varying degrees) enjoyed a few of Frogwares' other Sherlock games: Sherlock Holmes: Crimes and Punishments (2014), Sherlock Holmes versus Jack the Ripper (2009), and The Testament of Sherlock Holmes (2012). I played Devil's Daughter on the Master Sleuth difficulty level. I assume that some of the new features are less challenging at the Keen Detective level.


Music:
During cutscenes and the main menu, the music makes a few nods to earlier centuries (you hear violins), but in general the presentation is decidedly modern, with strong rhythms, heavy processing, and pandering arrangements. It takes no imagination at all to sense the dubstep just beneath the surface. I will not be putting the soundtrack on my iPod.

Ambient music during gameplay is thankfully much subtler and less obnoxious.

A few pieces are done with period instruments and without much processing – these are delightful. The theme that plays during the bloodhound sections is wonderful.


UI, Scripting, and Controls:
The UI is minimal and controls are straightforward. The game is usually very clear about what direction you need to take next; if your “Search the House” objective has not been ticked off the list, then there is still more searching to do, but once it is ticked, you know you can move on.

However, sometimes this fails, as the scripting generally requires you to find every bit of evidence in exactly the right way before allowing you to proceed. In one case, I found a hand drawn map along with a note that shouted, “Plot critical meeting at this place and time!”, yet the game would not allow me to actually go to that location before scouring previously explored areas for an inobvious trigger point.

General movement feels a little more natural with mouse and keyboard, but many of the minigames were clearly designed for a controller. The game automatically detects which you are using at the moment, and switching back and forth is seamless. Unless picking up a controller and putting it back down makes you angry, there is no reason not to simply use both.


Action:
As promised, Frogwares has imbued Sherlock with a somewhat greater emphasis on action, but honestly not to the detriment of or distraction from the excellent investigative gameplay of Crimes. Most of your time is still spent searching for clues and interviewing suspects. Don't be fooled by the heart-pounding chase in the opening cutscene; it but foreshadows a short action climax to the slow, methodical casebuilding we're used to from previous games.


Graphics and Performance:
The graphics are a bit more vivid and colorful, and the textures a bit more detailed. In short, Daughter looks even better than Crimes.

My experience agrees with the reviews I have seen elsewhere citing poor framerates during (unskippable) cutscenes. Apparently these scenes are prerendered, so adjusting settings didn't help. Proper in-engine gameplay ran smoothly on my power rig at highest settings.

Some reviewers have complained about loading times, but I did not find them long enough to be worth mentioning. Perhaps they are more egregious on slower machines. As in Crimes, the game allows you to review your casebook and go to the deduction screen while loading a map – some players may therefore prefer to connect the dots while traveling instead of immediately upon encountering new evidence.

Characterization:

I very much enjoyed the cold, dry Holmes and the stodgy Watson of Frogwares' previous efforts. Devil's Daughter takes a new tack. Despite the fact that the series timeline appears to linearly mirror the release dates of the games, both characters now appear younger, stronger and, well, hipper. One supposes that this game takes place in a “universe next door” to that of the previous games; one in which prior events were substantially the same, but experienced by these more energetic characters from the beginning.

I was prepared to be disappointed by these stylish young men; pleasantly, the effort to instill them with charm was successful. Even Watson's silly facial hair, which I hated in the previews, is fitting for this more boyish version of the character. In fact, I prefer the new Watson – he has more dimension and nuance than the predictably and perpetually flummoxed conservative of previous games. Sadly, the new Holmes, though pleasing enough, is blander and less compelling than the masterful, cynical Holmes I'm used to.

Disastrously, there is nothing good to be said about the new character central to the story. Introduced in Testament as Holmes' adoptive daughter for no evident reason, the shrill, precocious Katelyn is instantly unlikeable, and not just because I resent the shameless emotional manipulation that she represents. Even if “It's your family so you care” was appropriate in Fallout 3 (it wasn't), it's certainly out of place in a Holmes story; and no one wants to see a heartwarming sitcom about a brilliant criminologist who's got a lot to learn about parenting. Who is this for?

Katelyn. It's a name that oozes the dignity of 19th Century Britain, isn't it?


Gameplay:
Detectiveness: As hoped, the best parts of Crimes & Punishments have been improved upon.

There is a wonderful new challenge when meeting important characters. During visual inspection, Holmes must now make judgment calls about what he sees. Is a young boy's arm crippled due to malnutrition or injury? Does a scar on a subject's wrist denote a violent accident, or a suicide attempt? On the Master Sleuth difficulty level, your examination is on a timer - you can't stare at someone forever. Even at Keen Detective difficulty, the guesses you make about what you see will permanently factor into Holmes' appraisal of the case. If you decide that the child is injured, you cannot query him about his poverty. The game will tell you if you screw this up by stamping your casebook with an [IMPRECISE CHARACTER PORTRAIT] brand, but you cannot go back and reexamine a character to erase your mistake without returning to a previous checkpoint (which I completely approve of). Likewise, if you catch a character in a lie, you have but one chance to contradict them on the basis of correct evidence. None of this is critical to solving a case, but remember that this game does not hand-feed you correct solutions, so every missed opportunity is one more blank you'll have to fill in yourself.

Minigames: there are a lot of them. During my time with DD, I enjoyed/endured such diverse activities as:
Balance Beam
Eavesdropping
Shadowing (as Wiggins)
Chimney Sweeping
Shoe Shining
Traditional Stealth
Tracking (as Toby)
Lockpicking
Dodging Gunfire*
Lawn Bowling
Pickpocketing
Translating Ancient Text
Breaking Down a Door
Advancing in Cover while Under Fire
Blocks & Ladders
QTE Chain Swinging
Forging with Blacksmith's Tools
Gear Puzzle
Tile Stepping Puzzle
Pull the Levers in the Right Order Puzzle
Perpetual Motion “Shoot the Gap” Deathtrap
Navigating a Building with Dead Ends for No Reason
Time-Based, Poorly Telegraphed “Step in the Right Place” Deathtraps
Rush across a Collapsing Bridge on the Strong Boards Only
Perform CPR

*It is good to know that Sherlock Holmes can take seven rifle rounds to the center of his back and keep moving.


Writing:
The cases are more farfetched than in the previous games, with themes ranging from sober and believable to hopelessly outlandish. It is frustrating when the lines blur from historical detective fiction into outright science fiction. When Holmes and Watson assemble a functional clockwork killbot in the office of a mad scientist, what am I to think? Am I to believe that this is a reasonable method of murdering a man? Could it have a tracking system? Can it climb walls? Who knows?

There's nothing wrong with science fiction, but in this case it works against the greatest strength of the game and its predecessor: making the player responsible for determining the truth. Crimes & Punishments explored the subtleties of human motives, rewarding me for thinking about the people involved. Devil's Daughter sometimes uses whimsical ninja smoke bombs and shrink rays to make things very difficult to take seriously, or think about seriously. As a result, I lost all motivation to try to make sense of the evidence, and ultimately gave up on the game altogether.


Misc.:
There is more atmosphere, including snatches of color conversation by NPCs as you pass them.

The game does not work nearly as hard as it should to trick the player into choosing the wrong solutions. In the second case, when I selected what seemed the most likely interpretation of the bizarre and implausible evidence, the game treated me to a 22-second cutscene with just four lines and a flat denial by the suspect. This lack of effort made it obvious that I had made the wrong choice.

Another big problem is that the game insists on telling you how many people picked the same solution that you did. Since there is a correct answer to every case that can be easily verified in-game, it's a major spoiler to be told that 4% of all players made the same choice.
 
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HoboForEternity

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
i hear it is alot shorter too than C&P

C&P was fun. a bit clunky and flawed. anyway how is the logic system at least? i had fun connecting pieces of evidence and information to reach a certain conclusion. it almost didnt have any handholding in the process. you're either wrong or right and that's twhat the best part.
 
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I got C&P as a Christmas gift from a friend a few years back, and ended up really enjoying it. Was pretty pumped about Devil's Daughter when it was first announced because my first thought was, "How could they screw this up? Literally just make more cases and it'll be great."

Well, here we are. I hadn't heard about the new system regarding character portraits, which is very cool. Shame they screwed the pooch on the story, mini-games and whatnot. Might still end up picking this up for five to ten bucks in a year.
 

Zombra

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anyway how is the logic system at least? i had fun connecting pieces of evidence and information to reach a certain conclusion. it almost didnt have any handholding in the process. you're either wrong or right and that's twhat the best part.
I really felt like Crimes & Punishments was fair about it. There was a lot of secondary information and once I understood how the game worked (I screwed up the first couple cases) I nailed every solution with a lot of careful thinking.

Devil's Daughter feels random to me. Like, "Here are a bunch of clues, here are a bunch of suspects, now guess". Maybe I got dumber or the game got harder, but somehow I doubt it. It felt like I was throwing darts and that made me not want to bother.

Let me tell you about the second case. Major spoilers.
Seriously, if you're thinking about playing this, I am about to ruin 20% of the game.
The victim is apparently killed by a statue that throws a spear at him. Strange.

Holmes and Watson find a clockwork robot workshop. In the workshop is a robot that looks exactly like the statue and is specifically built to throw spears with killing force. It has no other function.

The man who built the robot is innocent. The robot has nothing to do with the crime scene. Its existence is a red herring and an outlandish coincidence. The real murderer wasn't trying to frame the robot maker - nobody knew he was doing this. No one remarks on how strange it is that a guy is building murder bots. Holmes doesn't even talk to the guy again to ask what's up. Silly me, I thought there was a connection.
After that I checked out mentally. I tried one more case. It was less ridiculous but still didn't give me enough info to make a decision, so I stopped caring and stopped playing.
 

Abu Antar

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
anyway how is the logic system at least? i had fun connecting pieces of evidence and information to reach a certain conclusion. it almost didnt have any handholding in the process. you're either wrong or right and that's twhat the best part.
I really felt like Crimes & Punishments was fair about it. There was a lot of secondary information and once I understood how the game worked (I screwed up the first couple cases) I nailed every solution with a lot of careful thinking.

Devil's Daughter feels random to me. Like, "Here are a bunch of clues, here are a bunch of suspects, now guess". Maybe I got dumber or the game got harder, but somehow I doubt it. It felt like I was throwing darts and that made me not want to bother.

Let me tell you about the second case. Major spoilers.
Seriously, if you're thinking about playing this, I am about to ruin 20% of the game.
The victim is apparently killed by a statue that throws a spear at him. Strange.

Holmes and Watson find a clockwork robot workshop. In the workshop is a robot that looks exactly like the statue and is specifically built to throw spears with killing force. It has no other function.

The man who built the robot is innocent. The robot has nothing to do with the crime scene. Its existence is a red herring and an outlandish coincidence. The real murderer wasn't trying to frame the robot maker - nobody knew he was doing this. No one remarks on how strange it is that a guy is building murder bots. Holmes doesn't even talk to the guy again to ask what's up. Silly me, I thought there was a connection.
After that I checked out mentally. I tried one more case. It was less ridiculous but still didn't give me enough info to make a decision, so I stopped caring and stopped playing.
Such a shame. I had really high hopes for Devil's Daughter. Add more polish and new cases. I might still try it some day.
 

Crooked Bee

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I really felt like Crimes & Punishments was fair about it. There was a lot of secondary information and once I understood how the game worked (I screwed up the first couple cases) I nailed every solution with a lot of careful thinking.

Devil's Daughter feels random to me. Like, "Here are a bunch of clues, here are a bunch of suspects, now guess". Maybe I got dumber or the game got harder, but somehow I doubt it. It felt like I was throwing darts and that made me not want to bother.

I just finished it recently and Crimes and Punishment was too easy about this, in my opinion. I got all the cases right, and I've no idea who would've gotten any of them wrong, except for someone completely brain-dead. And don't get me started about C&P or DD's "gameplay" or writing, which feels like some potato farmer set out to write some Sherlock Holmes fanfiction.

C&P was still a bit better than DD though, but meh, that's honestly not saying much. Neither comes even a little close to a decent adventure game.
 

Zombra

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I just finished it recently and Crimes and Punishment was too easy about this, in my opinion. I got all the cases right, and I've no idea who would've gotten any of them wrong, except for someone completely brain-dead.
How did you feel about the challenge level of TDD? I agree that C&P could have been a little tougher, but I felt good about it anyway because it at least made me think hard enough to feel smart when I got it right. TDD made me feel dumb both for getting things wrong and for trusting the game to be reasonable in the first place. The guy built an army of goddamn killer robots for chrissake, and then I'm supposed to believe it had nothing to do with the murder of a guy who got killed by a killer robot. Coincidence! Was I really being that stupid?

Where I think both games fail is in ambiguity - not enough of it in the endings. Too often, when you correctly accuse the perpetrator, there is an angry confession and suicide attempt or action scene. The first case in TDD actually does a good job of this, when you're confronted with two guys each with their own story in a tense scene, but one story just doesn't hold up as well. The rest of the game has long involved ending scenes of yes I did it, now my secret ninja accomplice will jump out of the umbrella stand .. or 10 seconds of what, I'm innocent, you shouldn't have accused me, which is obviously wrong. At least that's how the next two cases go - I lost interest after that. I'm happy to get it wrong, but let me wonder about it either way - don't tell me to try again until I get the ending that says YOU GOT IT RIGHT in 18 foot letters.
 

Crooked Bee

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How did you feel about the challenge level of TDD?

FWIW I thought C&P felt much more fleshed out. I believe that's where the perception of TDD's higher challenge level may come from. It felt rushed and not as detailed when it comes to NPC dialogue, descriptions, etc. At least that's the way I remember it - the cases were pretty forgettable so I don't remember much other than the all-too dramatic main plot. C&P is definitely better in that regard. It also had a more neutral (and less dramatic) tone, which is a good thing. I still found it too easy (it is essentially a casual adventure game) and disliked the writing and characterization and the overall 'feel', but that's a different story.

Also, agreed about ambiguity.
 

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