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KickStarter Shenmue 3

taxalot

I'm a spicy fellow.
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RELEASE DATE ANNOUNCEMENT !!&!&!&!!&!&

"We don't know when the game is going to be released."

"Please stay tuned for next update."

Fuck you.
 

Misco Jones

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From THQ Nordic financial presentation:



kX9mSxo.jpg


aywXLpy.jpg


a0btjNu.jpg


Ii4ygCX.jpg
 
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Suzuki's a hack.
It's unfortunate to call the man responsible for Outrun, Hang On, Space Harrier and Virtua Fighter a hack.

Even if Shenmue 3 turns out to be the worst shit imaginable and he doesn't work on a single new game, he is still up there with the greatest game designers of all time. I would largely credit him for being one of the most instrumental people in the development of hardware that made modern 3D possible. Model 1/2/3 boards were industrial-grade technological marvels that shaped the future.

You can't take this shit lightly.
 

Misco Jones

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First in-game screenshot:

fight_with_thugsqrev6.jpg


The crowdfunding campaign for Shenmue III has reached $7 million with its Kickstarter and Slacker Backer campaigns combined, which has unlocked the “AI Battling” expansion to its battle system:

This control system lets you automatically unleash the perfect technique in response to the opponent’s positioning and distance. R&D for this system is based on Yu Suzuki’s concept for players who are not used to fighting games or for those who want a full immersion battle experience. This battle system is highly compatible with, and will be an extension to the current battle system.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ysnet/shenmue-3/posts/2241883
 
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That's a completely indefensible position. "I bet anyone else could have made X Y or Z" 30+ years after the fact is borderline retarded. No one else did. He did. Hindsight is 20/20.

YS isn't the modern definition of a 'game designer'. He's an engineer. He engineered games, closed systems of interaction with little or no frame of reference. He was as much of a trailblazer as Miyamoto.

Those early games cannot be disassociated from their hardware (including the physical cabinets, which were an integral part of the experience). Tell me, were you around in 1986 when Outrun came out? Do you have any idea how mind-boggling it was to actually sit down on an original deluxe cabinet, with the sound blasting behind your head, with independent accel and break pedals, with the entire thing shifting and vibrating according to the on-screen action? It was like nothing else you had ever seen.

Same for Afterburner - for which he was the main programmer, by the way. Those who experienced that mammoth, tumbling cabinet back when the game was released (and for years to come) could not find a similar experience anywhere. The game was indissociable from the hardware. Home ports, no matter how accurate, would never come close to capturing the feeling of the original machine. The hardware and software were inextricably linked - one did not follow the other. They were made for one single purpose. YS spearheaded the vision. Sure, there were many other people involved in the projects, but downplaying his position by saying 'anyone at the company could have done it' is beyond disingenuous, it's just dumb. In fact, it's more honest to make the contrary argument - that without him, the hardware would have been significantly different and perhaps not even exist at all.

Shenmue 3 is irrelevant. Everyone has their creative peak and YS is way past that, in his twilight years. I haven't played anything decent by him since Outrun 2 (which he co-designed with Daichi Katagiri, who also took over VF after having designed Fighting Vipers). It doesn't matter and it has no bearing on his rightful place as a videogame trailblazer and legend.
 
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Vaarna_Aarne

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That's a completely indefensible position. "I bet anyone else could have made X Y or Z" 30+ years after the fact is borderline retarded. No one else did. He did. Hindsight is 20/20.

YS isn't the modern definition of a 'game designer'. He's an engineer. He engineered games, closed systems of interaction with little or no frame of reference. He was as much of a trailblazer as Miyamoto.

Those early games cannot be disassociated from their hardware (including the physical cabinets, which were an integral part of the experience). Tell me, were you around in 1986 when Outrun came out? Do you have any idea how mind-boggling it was to actually sit down on an original deluxe cabinet, with the sound blasting behind your head, with independent accel and break pedals, with the entire thing shifting and vibrating according to the on-screen action? It was like nothing else you had ever seen.

Same for Afterburner - for which he was the main programmer, by the way. Those who experienced that mammoth, tumbling cabinet back when the game was released (and for years to come) could not find a similar experience anywhere. The game was indissociable from the hardware. Home ports, no matter how accurate, would never come close to capturing the feeling of the original machine. The hardware and software were inextricably linked - one did not follow the other. They were made for one single purpose. YS spearheaded the vision. Sure, there were many other people involved in the projects, but downplaying his position by saying 'anyone at the company could have done it' is beyond disingenuous, it's just dumb. In fact, it's more honest to make the contrary argument - that without him, the hardware would have been significantly different and perhaps not even exist at all.

Shenmue 3 is irrelevant. Everyone has their creative peak and YS is way past that, in his twilight years. I haven't played anything decent by him since Outrun 2 (which he co-designed with Hiroshi Kataoka, who also took over VF after having designed Fighting Vipers). It doesn't matter and it has no bearing on his rightful place as a videogame trailblazer and legend.
I am so happy I've been lucky enough to play the REAL Afterburner when I was a wee little boy.
 

Max Edge

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First two parts was awkward, but original and enjoyable. Third look like a retarded brother. It's still a part of family, but, from my side, it's forced love.
 

mogwaimon

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Suzuki's a hack.
It's unfortunate to call the man responsible for Outrun, Hang On, Space Harrier and Virtua Fighter a hack.

Even if Shenmue 3 turns out to be the worst shit imaginable and he doesn't work on a single new game, he is still up there with the greatest game designers of all time. I would largely credit him for being one of the most instrumental people in the development of hardware that made modern 3D possible. Model 1/2/3 boards were industrial-grade technological marvels that shaped the future.

You can't take this shit lightly.

Emphasis of "one of the", instead of "the single". One man does not equal a team... just ask Mighty no. 9 backers. If Shenmue III, divorced of the original team and company, is going to be bad or conquer its meager budget by virtue of good game design, that's what's going to prove if he's a hack or not.

ps: All those superscaler games like Thunder Blade and Outrun, in my dumb opinion, are not all that special game design wise, and I'm willing to bet that anyone at SEGA could have designed those games independently if Yu Suzuki never existed. The hardware designers, on the other hand, aren't as replaceable.

Inafune wasn't even the father of Mega Man as half the journalists were claiming in their headlines advertising Mighty No. 9, he was just one of the artists. Even then he was only a producer from Mega Man 8 on, not a lead designer or anything like that. He is just a salesman that had the right background and fortuitous timing to be working on a MegaMan-like at a time when Capcom was shitting on the Mega Man legacy. Though I guess I could give him credit for Dead Rising, that franchise was supposedly his brainchild and it was pretty good up until he left and the series went to shit starting with Dead Rising 3.

Suzuki is the man with the vision in Shenmue's case and was actually lead designer on proven classics so he deserves his reputation, I think.
 
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aweigh

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i been binge watching supergreatfriend's shenmue 2 playthrough in order to get hyped!!!
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Virtua Racing is the grandpappy of modern 3D graphics, whether console or computer. These are some really goddamn old arcade games we're talking about when it comes to Suzuki's importance as a pioneer of video games.
 
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aweigh

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Microtexture emulation
by Ian » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:10 pm

This one is for Harry, since I am just building upon the great work he did
icon_e_smile.gif


Sometimes obscure documents can really help us in emulation. Here is one that has some specs about the real3d pro-1000.
http://www.textfiles.com/computers/DOCU ... 3dspec.txt

Microtexture
allows two different texture patterns to be added together and placed
on any surface. The microtexture pattern will emerge as the viewpoint
moves closer to the textured surface. Microtexture is a user-defined

Microtexture was something we weren't sure was used or even existed on the model3. Until one day someone made this screenshot comparison with the real hardware.

y3XTeIy.jpg


Okay clearly a large difference. Digging around in the texture memory we found the missing texture that is blended with the road surface.

jQVsPhu.jpg


Microtextures today would be described as a type of multitexturing.

A small history lesson
icon_e_smile.gif


Back in the early days of computer gfx quake was a pretty popular game. Quake had lightmaps, which was actually a type of precalculated radiosity. Basically bounce some light around a level and catch the output in some textures (or lightmaps). It's actually a very accurate way of doing lighting, but lightmaps were generally pretty low resolution which didn't really work for hard shadows. Lightmaps looked something like this

3colors_00.jpg


Modulate with textures
full_pipeline02_annotated.jpg


The hardware at the time, the 3dfx voodoo1 only had 1 texture unit. It could only draw a poly with 1 texture at a time. In order to draw levels with lightmaps (which require 2), it would have to draw the entire world twice. First pass would be the lightmap pass, where it would draw only the brightness textures. Then in the next pass it would draw only the normal textures, and set the appropriate blending mode to mix them together. Obviously this was pretty expensive drawing everything twice.

The voodoo2 had two texture units, so could draw the entire world in a single pass. First texture unit would read the lightmaps, and the 2nd the textures. So by having a 2nd texture unit you could almost double the fps with the same speed hardware.

Anyway, back to the real3d. The real3d has two separate memory banks for texture memory. Both texture banks were 4meg each (probably split between more chips). Each texture memory bank on the model3 is actually laid out like a giant texture with a resolution of 2048x1024, with the mipmaps living in the lower right portion. Knowing how the physical hardware was laid out helped with the logic to work out how to use the micro textures. On the real3d there are no texture coordinates for the microtextures. They live at fixed memory locations in memory, and share texture coordinates with the base texture, just with a scale set to make them repeat X times over the surface. If a base texture was referenced on unit 1, the microtexture would always come from unit 2, and vice versa. It could never read the microtexture and the base texture from the same memory bank.

Texture memory on the model3 looks something like this
icon_e_smile.gif
Top half is one unit, bottom half is another unit. It's easier to see the mipmaps in the 2nd half because there are less textures.

2CHt8FU.jpg


Anyway the final result looked like this
hKUrtWU.jpg


Near perfect match to the arcade.

Then someone pointed out the flags on LA machine guns at the start looked kinda funny after adding microtexture emulation
l262S0p.jpg


The flag is being mixed with this texture.
WTfw5Gb.jpg


Are the flags supposed to look like that? For a lot of games, only hilariously poor quality videos exist on youtube. Recorded in 240p from a CRT, etc, making actual confirmation very hard if not impossible. I did manage to find this though ..

bc5m8xT.jpg


Clearly very different to what we have. No microtextures here.

The real3d supports 0,4,8 microtextures. And they are all 128x128 pixels. Looking at the texture memory, it's clear the game isn't uploading any microtextures at all, because theres no set of textures that match that format at all. Yet the flag polygon has this attribute set. So why is the hardware not drawing them?

Some time ago Harry suggested that the microtextures were being faded out as a function of distance (or more accurately) LOD mipmap / blended out. He gave this screenshot
CaqRlKs.png


Naturally I was somewhat skeptical. Could it just be a video compression artifact? Hard to tell. Then later on we found this ..

TjXDNKr.jpg


Proper potato quality video, but enough to actually confirm this effect was real. Reading that description again from the text document

The microtexture pattern will emerge as the viewpoint moves closer

I originally just assumed that, that meant they would become clearer as it moved closer, since lower resolution mipmaps would remove the pattern entirely as the resolution of the textures decreases. But apparently they were actually faded out completely.

Anyway correctly (or as close as I can guess how it works) fading out the microtextures

KULPiWF.jpg


Also fixes the flags in LA machineguns
icon_e_smile.gif

kQifIYz.jpg
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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I would largely credit him for being one of the most instrumental people in the development of hardware that made modern 3D possible on consoles

Fixed.
https://segaretro.org/Sega_Model_1
https://segaretro.org/Sega_Model_2
https://segaretro.org/Sega_Model_3

Fool. Suzuki was a purebreed arcade developer.
And we are talking about a time that was such a long-ass time ago that it'd be years before consoles and PCs would catch-up in hardware, since these were huge-ass cabinets with specialized hardware that cost wayyyyy more than either home system did.

Besides, heck even Suzuki's Super Scaler tech games from the 80's are pretty pivotal for foundations of modern 3D graphics.
 

taxalot

I'm a spicy fellow.
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I remember when the original Shenmue came out and I thought it had an interesting story.

How time flies.
 

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