Game News Shadowrun Returns Kickstarter Update #85: Hong Kong campaign concept art revealed

[Morality Games]

I hope the barrier to entry is low. They already have the engine and I am broke. If they ask $15 for a new campaign on the existing engine I will be a little ticked (remember, they asked $15 for the whole game in the first KS). $10 I won't be that ticked, but prob won't pledge. $5, I'm in. I hope they shoot for 30000 people at $5 each instead of 10000 people at $15 each.

There is no way it will drop in price. Most likely it will be raised to $20, but at best they'll stick to $15 and charge $20 for release.

There's a pretty large possibility that certain high stretch goals will entail edits to the engine, though.

 

[JarlFrank]

In fact, from its entertainment value this is worth more than most 40$ AAA games.

 

[naossano]

I hope that they would set a low goal for delivering the story campaign, and then a huge amount of stretch goals to improve the game mechanics, the open-ness, the C&C, the translations, maybe add another campaign like with DF.

So, the more creds we give them, the more content we get.

 

[Dreaad]

Will happily buy this for $40 if it resembles Dragonfall. They have delivered in the past so another kickstarter isn't a big deal, even if I have a worried feeling over the direction things might go if they feel they need to reach a larger audience.

 

[Zombra]

The game changes once you're in the million+ range. Although, who knows if a SR campaign will be a million+ type of project.

Don't disagree. I guess I am worried that HBS are planning on a millions type of deal without bringing anything new except some art assets and another story. To me that would put things on very uncertain ground.

Paying $5 for this game is a shame. Common... people can't get extra $10 for a nice TB AND cyberpunk game these days? Just don't go on Mcdonald's a day or two and you have the money. Jesus, popamolers pay $60 for their yearly reskin while RPG lovers of all people are this cheap? Liked Dragonfall, if they really do an extensive upgrade and new gameplay mechanics, I pay $60 easy otherwise if the campaign is of the same size of Dragonfall, it is still worthy $20 easy.

Shrug, I'm a part-time worker who mainly subsists on shift meals at the bowling alley but pays premium big-city rent, so I can't always conjure $20 at will. Not everyone can pay $60 just because a game happens to be better written than a AAA title. I'm not completely broke, but the difference between $10 and $15 is meaningful to me, and there are a lot of cases like mine out there. The reasonableness of pledge levels also informs my decision. $20 for a reskin of a game I originally paid $15 for? That would look shifty as hell ... I would say, let other people fund it, I'll wait for the Humble version. Enough other people think the same way and poof, KS fails.

In fact, from its entertainment value this is worth more than most 40$ AAA games.

I don't disagree here either, but KS is a different market with different risks. I'd be happy to pay $40 (well, $30) for a released game of SR quality that I'd read reviews for and so forth, but Kickstarting is a worse gamble than a D1P and worse than a preorder. To expect anyone to pay full box price up front for something that won't even exist for 18 months, and might never exist at all, is pretty goofy.

 

[DeepOcean]

I don't disagree here either, but KS is a different market with different risks. I'd be happy to pay $40 (well, $30) for a released game of SR quality that I'd read reviews for and so forth, but Kickstarting is a worse gamble than a D1P and worse than a preorder. To expect anyone to pay full box price up front for something that won't even exist for 18 months, and might never exist at all, is pretty goofy.

But this isn't an ordinary KS, they released a good KS game already and now have the engine and the most troublesome stuff on place, it isn't like they are starting a game from scratch. If they don't get some nice money from this I don't know what a developer should do to build trust.

Shrug, I'm a part-time worker who mainly subsists on shift meals at the bowling alley but pays premium big-city rent, so I can't always conjure $20 at will. Not everyone can pay $60 just because a game happens to be better written than a AAA title. I'm not completely broke, but the difference between $10 and $15 is meaningful to me, and there are a lot of cases like mine out there. The reasonableness of pledge levels also informs my decision. $20 for a reskin of a game I originally paid $15 for? That would look shifty as hell ... I would say, let other people fund it, I'll wait for the Humble version. Enough other people think the same way and poof, KS fails.

It wasn't a personnal attack to you, I don't know how your money situation is and can't even comment on that, but it is kinda sad that well made traditional RPGs are competing at the same price point with "2h long experiences" indie crap. You see this attitude "Ew, this game wasn't made by Ubisoft Montreal and doesn't have one million polygons on screen so it isn't worthy 60 dollars" from ALOT of people and many of them can actually afford to pay a decent price.

 

[tuluse]

Zombra

I'll be upset if they raise the price as well. I think $5 is too low though. Seems they should drop to $10 since it's a single campaign.

 

[Zombra]

But this isn't an ordinary KS, they released a good KS game already and now have the engine and the most troublesome stuff on place, it isn't like they are starting a game from scratch. If they don't get some nice money from this I don't know what a developer should do to build trust.

Trust is certainly an issue, and HBS does have good rep in the bank at this point. I still think it's weird to expect the day one retail price up front. If we invest in the game to make it in the first place and are going to wait 12-18 months for it, I expect a substantial discount. It's also a big deal to me that this KS won't be for a game, but for a DLC. If they're expecting to kickstart half a million for a DLC, I think they are weird.

It wasn't a personnal attack to you, I don't know how your money situation is and can't even comment on that, but it is kinda sad that well made traditional RPGs are competing at the same price point with "2h long experiences" indie crap. You see this attitude "Ew, this game wasn't made by Ubisoft Montreal and doesn't have one million polygons on screen so it isn't worthy 60 dollars" from ALOT of people and many of them can actually afford to pay a decent price.

No offense taken, and I agree with all this. Again, I have no problem with putting a "normal box price" on the game on release day. Kickstarter is a different deal though. If Ubisoft Kickstarted a PC game and asked $60 as a minimum pledge, I think it would (rightfully) crash like the freakin Hindenburg. But when they put $60 on a box on release day, I just think OK, that's how much that studio charges for a game, if reviews are good I may check it out.

Honestly I have felt weird when I see a game I pledged for selling for the same price that I paid, or even less in some cases!

I'll be upset if they raise the price as well. I think $5 is too low though. Seems they should drop to $10 since it's a single campaign.

Yeah, I don't actually expect $5, but if it is $5, I will pledge instantly. At $10, I will have to think about it. $15, I will almost defnitely not pledge.

I think it was Brian Fargo who said something to the effect of, "You don't want 50 people pledging $1,000 each. You want 10,000 people pledging $5 each."

 

[Infinitron]

I think it was Brian Fargo who said something to the effect of, "You don't want 50 people pledging $1,000 each. You want 10,000 people pledging $5 each."

That's wonderful, but what if they don't show up?

You guys are being a bit naive here. It's extremely likely that this Kickstarter will be less popular than the original one. If you've got fewer, but more dedicated backers - the most die-hard fans that you've managed to retain from 2012 - it makes sense to demand more money from them.

 

[Jaesun]

Don't disagree. I guess I am worried that HBS are planning on a millions type of deal without bringing anything new except some art assets and another story. To me that would put things on very uncertain ground.

You are aware that Art costs are the single most expensive cost for a game?

 

[tuluse]

And of course Fargo wants 50k people giving $40 each

 

[Zombra]

It's extremely likely that this Kickstarter will be less popular than the original one. If you've got fewer, but more dedicated backers - the most die-hard fans that you've managed to retain from 2012 - it makes sense to demand more money from them.

Good point. I wonder if they will specifically be targeting people who already have the game, or trying to spread the word farther and wider.

You are aware that Art costs are the single most expensive cost for a game?

Yeah? I would have thought coding and QA and whatnot in a game without VA.

 

[hoverdog]

I still haven't started Dragonfall

 

[GarfunkeL]

Duuuuude, get on with it! You won't regret. It's not the best thing since sliced bread but it's good.

 

[mindx2]

Yeah, I don't actually expect $5, but if it is $5, I will pledge instantly. At $10, I will have to think about it. $15, I will almost defnitely not pledge.

My friend, I will pledge enough to get you a digital copy so regardless of the initial price point you'll have a copy.* Can't have a Codex Bro not partake in the !






* Just remind me of this when the time comes...

 

[Zombra]

Wasn't Dragonfall DC priced at $15? I don't see them going lower than that if they would be cannibalizing future sales.

The Kickstarter price for Dragonfall was $0.00.

My friend, I will pledge enough to get you a digital copy so regardless of the initial price point you'll have a copy.*

I can work with that :D

 

[naossano]

You see this attitude "Ew, this game wasn't made by Ubisoft Montreal and doesn't have one million polygons on screen so it isn't worthy 60 dollars" from ALOT of people and many of them can actually afford to pay a decent price.

Sure, it is a billion times better than a game from EA or Beth, but it cost less too.
Anyway, 60$ for a game shouldn't even happen. When you go to the theather, you pay the same price regardless if you watch a comedy or the last Star Wars.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

No offense taken, and I agree with all this. Again, I have no problem with putting a "normal box price" on the game on release day. Kickstarter is a different deal though. If Ubisoft Kickstarted a PC game and asked $60 as a minimum pledge, I think it would (rightfully) crash like the freakin Hindenburg. But when they put $60 on a box on release day, I just think OK, that's how much that studio charges for a game, if reviews are good I may check it out.

Honestly I have felt weird when I see a game I pledged for selling for the same price that I paid, or even less in some cases!

Yeah, I don't actually expect $5, but if it is $5, I will pledge instantly. At $10, I will have to think about it. $15, I will almost defnitely not pledge.

Are you a traitor or just stupid?
I have a solution to your little dilemma : buy 60$ kickstarter game, pirate 60$ Ubisoft game. Just use your money pool for a good cause, not for companies which make game without you in mind.

 

[Wizfall]

Trust is certainly an issue, and HBS does have good rep in the bank at this point. I still think it's weird to expect the day one retail price up front. If we invest in the game to make it in the first place and are going to wait 12-18 months for it, I expect a substantial discount. It's also a big deal to me that this KS won't be for a game, but for a DLC. If they're expecting to kickstart half a million for a DLC, I think they are weird.

Personally i "invest" in order for the game to be made not to have a discount (which not even matter).
Obviously the discount may be a big deal for some but even for them not sure this is the first priority.
Talking about risk/trust about HBS not to deliver is weird considering there are going to use the same engine (if i'm not mistaken), can't see any except if you hope for something better than Dragonfall (not saying it would not be better but i can't see it worse).

But really talking about DLC about the new game because they are gonna use the same engine and so only wanting to pay DLC price is what bother me the most here.
It's the kind of logic why we can't have better cRPG game, let's change everything (which is more costly) instead of improving the basic formula that works otherwise people won't pay.
Also i guess Fallout 2 is just a DLC as well as Baldur 2.

 

[naossano]

Wrong thread

 

[Wizfall]

You guys are being a bit naive here. It's extremely likely that this Kickstarter will be less popular than the original one. If you've got fewer, but more dedicated backers - the most die-hard fans that you've managed to retain from 2012 - it makes sense to demand more money from them.

I have not be very good at this but i bet they are going to have more.
If they make less i have the feeling the final sales are going to be a big failure.

The Codex crowd is not a good sample but there are much more people here aware/supporting/happy with SRR now than when the fist kickstarter campaign was launched (the unlimited ammo debate hehe).
I can see more codexers backing the campaign this time.

 

[JarlFrank]

Wizfall made a good point. These kickstarters are more than just buying a game you like. You directly support a game you want to be made. You invest in it. And I torrent 99% of my games anyway, so if something I really want to be made comes up at kickstarter, I just spend the price of 3 normal full price AAA games on it because hey, these days it's not all too common that a newly released game makes me think "eh, might want to buy instead of torrent because I want to support the devs". With these kickstarter RPGs, it's become much more common again that I think this game might be worth my money. And I want devs to make games that are worth my money, and my time, and give me fun.

 

[Zombra]

Are you a traitor or just stupid?

It's complicated.

Personally i "invest" in order for the game to be made not to have a discount (which not even matter).

It seems you have more disposable income than I do, and that's not a problem, but some (many, I'd say) can't afford to sponsor others' livelihood. I know that Kickstarter "really is" a sponsorship program, not a store, but I feel that the relationship between creators and backers is such that it's OK for backers to expect a better deal than some joe off the street a year later. The guy who paid to have the restaurant built shouldn't expect to pay twice as much for a sandwich when he comes in for lunch, you know?

Talking about risk/trust about HBS not to deliver is weird

You misunderstood - I said that they have earned trust. It's an issue, but an issue that won't work against them.

But really talking about DLC about the new game because they are gonna use the same engine and so only wanting to pay DLC price is what bother me the most here.

I didn't say that I only wanted to pay DLC price, but until the KS campaign says otherwise, this is going to be a DLC, just like Dragonfall was a DLC. HBS themselves called it a DLC.

But let's not talk out of both sides of our mouths here. If HBS aren't going to build a new engine or anything, they won't need as much money for development. We agree on that? So if Kickstarter isn't a store but a sponsorship program, we as sponsors simply don't need to come up with as much seed money, unless there is going to be 10x as much art or content or whatnot to boost the actual cost.

If on the other hand Kickstarter is just a storefront, why would I pay full price right now? Why wouldn't I wait until release? Preordering is stupid, even for a company with a good track record.

It's the kind of logic why we can't have better cRPG game, let's change everything (which is more costly) instead of improving the basic formula that works otherwise people won't pay.

No, I don't want to see them change everything or build a new engine or whatnot. But if I am going to be the investor paying for the development of something, I want to pay the actual cost of development. I don't want to pay to build a whole new engine unless they need to build a whole new engine.

 

[JarlFrank]

If HBS aren't going to build a new engine, they can use the funds to make the campaign bigger, add more sidequests, add more reactivity, create more art assets (more equipment and enemy variety, more environment tilesets), and so on. No new engine means that, if they have just as many funds as for the first game, they can invest it all in making MORE GAME! That's why I'll likely pledge 30 or more euros because MORE GAME is exactly what I want from them!

 

[Jaesun]

Agreed. ANd *possibly* they could finally do an actual Open World design. That would be awesome.