Game News Shadowrun Returns Alpha Gameplay Footage

[JarlFrank]

Low budget game is low budget. Take it for what it is, Codex.

It's called mid-budget, bro, and it definitely looks like mid-budget, not low-budget.

 

[Frusciante]

Can't believe how good this looks. It looks very polished allready, also suprised how good the UI looks.

Typical codex reactions in this thread. After years of Skyrim, Dragon Age and Mass effect, a tactical turn based crpg emerges with cool 2d backgrounds and portraits. Yet some people here feel the need to whine about loot and death animations. What is this place? Bioware social network 2.0?

 

[MasPingon]

I'm still looking forward to it, but it feels like a mobile/tablet game a little bit too much for my taste.

My first impression - looks like a facebook game

Have you actually played a FB game? Because this looks million miles better than any FB game.

WTF is it with people who have no fucking clue about Shadowrun, bitching and moaning about NOTHING? FFS, at least understand what's the source material before you start whining like 6-year old girl.

Are you really that stupid? I was talking about presentation of this game, not mechanics. Try not to piss yourself. God damn fanboys this days

 

[General Maxson]

Can't believe how good this looks. It looks very polished allready, also suprised how good the UI looks.

Typical codex reactions in this thread. After years of Skyrim, Dragon Age and Mass effect, a tactical turn based crpg emerges with cool 2d backgrounds and portraits. Yet some people here feel the need to whine about loot and death animations. What is this place? Bioware social network 2.0?

No, it would be Bioware social network 2.0 if we were just without anyone criticizing, or commenting anything. A well placed critic is always welcome (well it should be, at least) on how to improve a game. It would be a good guide for them what to do/add in the future, instead of stuff like, for example, quest markers that some other people would want to have in the game.

 

[Yoshiyyahu]

Seems pretty good, never really played Shadowrun before but it looks like the combat will be fun with all the different styles of character available. Combat music was pretty badass too

 

[Infinitron]

It's called mid-budget, bro, and it definitely looks like mid-budget, not low-budget.

I'm not talking about how the game looks. And less than two million is pretty damn low.

 

[JarlFrank]

I'd still call it mid-budget, low-budget would be fully indie games like Underrail and AoD.

 

[grdja]

What I'm scared of is that they went "XCOM didn't have inventory and loot and sold well, lets copy everything about it".

Wait, what? Are you saying that their "role model" X-Com game is this new shit X-com? I thought they referenced to old X-Com games...

Have you watched the video? Cover system, 2x move or move and shot unit actions... Everything about combat mechanics is screaming XCOM. Sadly.

 

[Wizfall]

What I'm scared of is that they went "XCOM didn't have inventory and loot and sold well, lets copy everything about it".

Wait, what? Are you saying that their "role model" X-Com game is this new shit X-com? I thought they referenced to old X-Com games...

Have you watched the video? Cover system, 2x move or move and shot unit actions... Everything about combat mechanics is screaming XCOM. Sadly.

Dude i'm sure you consider fallout 1/2 awful cRPG because combat system here is 10 times more deep (and i'm damn generous).
Also about looting.
In the Shadowrun PnP games you almost never loot.
It can looks like an excuse for the game but it's true.
You never loot because when you create your archetype you can easily start with the top equipment for all that is weapon and armor.
Guns/armor are "cheap".
Very few weapons (like 1/20) or highly specialized armor are not available right from the start.
You don't become stronger by having better guns/armors because you already almost have what it's the best.
So how can you "feel" your character going stronger except by skills increase ?
You have a substitute for better equipment and for looting : Cyberwares and Biowares for everybody except awakened character.
And you have plenty of those (you have a whole book only for that). It's huge fun.
Almost all the customization of your combat character will come from his cyberware and bioware (except for his skills/attributes of course). And unlike guns cyberwares and biowares are 1) hugely expensive 2) not lootable by definition. All you need for those kind of character are money, a huge amount of money and knowing a discrete doc...
The only things worth "looting" are vehicules/drones for the rigger (quite uncommon and difficult) or magical items for awakened character (very uncommon and difficult, very few magical items in Shadowrun except for the most basic consumable fetish).
That's why you don't loot in the PnP games, you will almost never find find better equipment. You are a pro right from the start, not like stupid JA 2 where professional mercenaries start the game with awful pistols and armors :D
You are the guys with the better equipment most of the time and you can almost only improve that by 1) spending money and 2) knowing the right "contact" who can get you that highly illegal stuff that you want (even more difficult than having money, a bit like in real life after all. I guess if you really want a sniper rifle the main obstacle will not be the money but knowing someone who can get you that discretely).
Now unfortunately i don't expect them to implement 1/10 of the cyberwares/biowares available in the PnP. I just hope that it will have the most important ones, just enough to have 2 or even better 3 viable characters build by class possible.

 

[Aeschylus]

There were RPGs made in the 80s for less than $1.2 million that had looting systems. Accept that you will gladly take cuts in systems for improvements in graphix in your little party-based turn-based RPGs.

Geez, at least try to maintain some semblance of objectivity while tossing your wet blanket around. You know that inflation has almost quadrupled what that budget would mean since the 80's, right? You're aware that basically everything that is done to create a modern video game (aside from writing and design) is both significantly more expensive and more time-consuming than anything made in the 80's, right? At least you accurately reduced their budget to account for KS/Paypal fees, and reward fulfillment, though $1.4-1.5m is probably closer to the actual number.

 

[Jaesun]

Roguey has never heard of the concept of inflation.

 

[winterraptor]

No, it would be Bioware social network 2.0 if we were just without anyone criticizing, or commenting anything. A well placed critic is always welcome (well it should be, at least) on how to improve a game. It would be a good guide for them what to do/add in the future, instead of stuff like, for example, quest markers that some other people would want to have in the game.

It's a fine line between 'well placed critic' and , though. This loot crap is probably going to be troll-bait here for a small eternity.

 

[General Maxson]

What I'm scared of is that they went "XCOM didn't have inventory and loot and sold well, lets copy everything about it".

Wait, what? Are you saying that their "role model" X-Com game is this new shit X-com? I thought they referenced to old X-Com games...

Have you watched the video? Cover system, 2x move or move and shot unit actions... Everything about combat mechanics is screaming XCOM. Sadly.

Dude i'm sure you consider fallout 1/2 awful cRPG because combat system here is 10 times more deep (and i'm damn generous).
Also about looting.
In the Shadowrun PnP games you almost never loot.
It can looks like an excuse for the game but it's true.
You never loot because when you create your archetype you can easily start with the top equipment for all that is weapon and armor.
Guns/armor are "cheap".
Very few weapons (like 1/20) or highly specialized armor are not available right from the start.
You don't become stronger by having better guns/armors because you already almost have what it's the best.
So how can you "feel" your character going stronger except by skills increase ?
You have a substitute for better equipment and for looting : Cyberwares and Biowares for everybody except awakened character.
And you have plenty of those (you have a whole book only for that). It's huge fun.
Almost all the customization of your combat character will come from his cyberware and bioware (except for his skills/attributes of course). And unlike guns cyberwares and biowares are 1) hugely expensive 2) not lootable by definition. All you need for those kind of character are money, a huge amount of money and knowing a discrete doc...
The only things worth "looting" are vehicules/drones for the rigger (quite uncommon and difficult) or magical items for awakened character (very uncommon and difficult, very few magical items in Shadowrun except for the most basic consumable fetish).
That's why you don't loot in the PnP games, you will almost never find find better equipment. You are a pro right from the start, not like stupid JA 2 where professional mercenaries start the game with awful pistols and armors :D
You are the guys with the better equipment most of the time and you can almost only improve that by 1) spending money and 2) knowing the right "contact" who can get you that highly illegal stuff that you want (even more difficult than having money, a bit like in real life after all. I guess if you really want a sniper rifle the main obstacle will not be the money but knowing someone who can get you that discretely).
Now unfortunately i don't expect them to implement 1/10 of the cyberwares/biowares available in the PnP. I just hope that it will have the most important ones, just enough to have 2 or even better 3 viable characters build by class possible.

So, loot will be scarce, but we'll be able to put cyberwares/biowares (i.e. some form of bought augmentations, instead of better weapon, you for example get a better targeting microprocessor put in your head?) in our character, and thus "upgrade" and customize him/her/it? With the customization that will come with leveling up, of course...

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Roguey has never heard of the concept of inflation.

What? Sure she has. Inflatable Sawyer doll right on her bed. Duh. We've all seen the picture.

 

[vorvek]

What I'm scared of is that they went "XCOM didn't have inventory and loot and sold well, lets copy everything about it".

Wait, what? Are you saying that their "role model" X-Com game is this new shit X-com? I thought they referenced to old X-Com games...

Have you watched the video? Cover system, 2x move or move and shot unit actions... Everything about combat mechanics is screaming XCOM. Sadly.

Have you? All of the characters had 3AP. That's 3x move, or move, shoot, move, or shoot, shoot, move, or connect to the drone, move the drone, shoot with the drone, shoot with the drone, disconnect from the drone, shoot...
Also, the elemental summoned by the troll could have different amounts of action points, so, yeah. Have you watched the video?

 

[winterraptor]

What? Sure she has. Inflatable Sawyer doll right on her bed. Duh. We've all seen the picture.

Now with adjustable Grimoire Slam action.

 

[Burning Bridges]

You are a pro right from the start, not like stupid JA 2 where professional mercenaries start the game with awful pistols and armors :D

Why do you have to say "stupid" JA2? I can understand that some people don't have the patience for it, but JA2 would not have been JA2 without the long term motivation to slowly find better equipment. I actually fell in love with it only when I realized how slow it was.

I am willing to give Shadowrun the benefit of the doubt that it can still be a great game without loot, because story, style and tactical combat look right up my alley. But there are also strategic aspects that people are fond of in almost every "normal" RPG, and items / inventories is such a major thing. The whole point of strategy in RPGs is to become more powerful, and the means is character development, and finding and using equipment. You can also have a system that allows for great tactics but it must work on top of characters and equipment.

I fully support the idea that having no equipment system is better than having one that is entirely broken (e.g. Oblivion). And I understand that the philosophy is in line with the classic shadowrun game. But it was an arcade game! Since Kickstarter I still want to see new games, not just retro-lite, but a re-birth of classic, gameplay driven rpgs. Or was the intention never to draw in people who ignored the original Shadowrun because it was too arcadey at the time?

I think this will evolve with time, but I also think it's permissible to be a bit disappointed by the absence of loot. You can call that whining if you wish, it's what people have done as long as the internet exists, to call whining when someone questions their sacred cow, and the other camp will call it whining about whiners, it leads to completely pointless discussions. Actually, hearing the term whining is a brand new thing on rpgcodex, it reminds me of other communities I frequented in the past (e.g. flight sims). Hey folks, rpgcodex has always been mostly about whining, i.e. criticizing anything that is short of perfection!

 

[winterraptor]

Plus you could just hire some of the better mercs for their equipment (which is of course not the best but better than the pistols), for one day (especially day 1), smoke through that one day like a hot knife through butter, then let them go, keeping their equipment.

 

[Burning Bridges]

That was exploit-ish, but also very expensive (you can exploit one merc max with your money at the start), so I find it ok as long as you don't cheat with more money.

 

[Wizfall]

Burning Bridges Shadowrun was not an arcade games
It's a PnP games with dozens of books, some only for describing the setting (like a whole book about Seattle, another only describing the corporate world).
And don't misunderstood me, JA 2 1.13 is one if my favorite game, i would have change nothing about it because the slow progression and stealing a scope x7 rifle from an elite in iron man is just awesome.
It works perfect gameplay wise but it's absolutely ridiculous for a mercenary (even cheap one) to go make war with a pistol and a leather jacket
Moreover i was speaking about the PnP games, not the cRPG games.

 

[Wizfall]

Also like i explained you have plenty of room to make your character stronger and character development.
Shadowrun is a fucking PnP games dude, way more complex than any cRPG...and one the goal of any PnP is to make your character stronger... half a dozen of complementary books introducing new way to make your character stronger.
Some of you don't know at all what they are talking about.
I'm just saying that from a PnP perspective looting bodies doesn't really make sense (it's not the way you gain better equipment) so it's not too bad not being able to do it in the cRPG.
Now about the cRPG, what is important is the amount of various equipment,cyberware, bioware and even nanoware implemented
Unfortunately i'm quite sure just the minimum cyberware/bioware and other equipment will be implemented.
An "AAA" game would not be enough to implement even half of what the PnP have.
I just hope you will have enough stuff implemented to make 2/3 viable build for each class.

 

[Shannow]

I like how "no looting corpses in alpha gameplay video" became "THIS GAMES HAS NO LEWTS!"
But I understand where people are coming from. Bloodlines was awful because enemies didn't explode in fountains of loot upon death. And the best parts about NeverwinterNights was checking every barrel, box, crate and chest. And waiting for the loot to appear upon enemy death.

I'd suggest waiting with the bitching until the info's more complete... but where would be the fun in that.

 

[vorvek]

An "AAA" game would not be enough to implement even half of what the PnP have.

Are we talking about Shadowrun? Any Computer RPG could have way more complex mechanics than any PnP RPG if so it was desired. As a human being (that I'm assuming you are) you are very limited when it comes to computing, and most PnP RPGs are aimed towards humans, thus creating -easy- mechanics that can be computerized in a matter of minutes. If it's not done, it's not because the mechanics can be modeled. You could add grappling in a DnD game, but most times you just won't want to, because the mechanic itself is obnoxious, and creating a different model for your game would only give you in return butthurt tears. There's nothing in the Shadowrun manuals when it comes to game mechanics that can't be modeled in a videogame. Just compare to the aforementioned (by you) JA2. Do you really think the mechanics for calculating whether a shot hits or not in JA2 are simpler than those from Shadowrun?

Obviously, in PnP you get something that you can't achieve in RPGs; doing whatever you want inside the game construct. Now, that doesn't depend on the game mechanics themselves, and probably there's no rule in the manuals stating what happens if you decide to defect from your party in the last moment before the final shootout, for example. The fact that most cRPGs don't allow you to do that kind of stuff either, is because the plot is often totally linear, and offering two or three different outcomes for each random fedex quest is enough to claim the game has "branching storylines where your choices matter". But it certainly could be computerized as well with some procedural plot generation. Unless your DM can prepare every single outcome of every single action or non-action in your PnP session beforehand, the results shouldn't differ that much.

 

[almondblight]

You know that inflation has almost quadrupled what that budget would mean since the 80's, right?

In what currency? Because that certainly hasn't been the case with US dollars.

 

[Volrath]

I'd suggest waiting with the bitching until the info's more complete... but where would be the fun in that.

On the codex?