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Shadowrun Shadowrun: Hong Kong Pre-Release Discussion [GO TO NEW THREAD]

How much HBS is going to get for his Hong Kong campaign ?


  • Total voters
    161
  • Poll closed .

Ellef

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Has anyone backed this game that wasn't a big fan of the first two? They felt like introductions to a good system, but were severely limited in combat options and tactical play (I didn't notice all the supposedly MASSIVE IMPROVEMENTS in dragonfall)

I imagine I could get 10-15 hours of decent gameplay out of it so i'll probably back it at $15, but I wonder how many Shadowruns we're away from the real deal.
 

imweasel

Guest
I didn't notice all the supposedly MASSIVE IMPROVEMENTS in dragonfall
k8aYOL5.gif


Well maybe you should look again then.
 

Ellef

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I don't know, the lack of combat options and builds is still prevalent, the small areas with little branching, still no way of fully customising party members. Still feels like 'complete mission, click here to begin next mission'

To be honest I put more hours into the first one because I couldn't be bothered finishing Dragonfall when it didn't improve where it counted. I realise I'm not in the majority there.
 
Joined
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I don't know, the lack of combat options and builds is still prevalent, the small areas with little branching, still no way of fully customising party members. Still feels like 'complete mission, click here to begin next mission'

To be honest I put more hours into the first one because I couldn't be bothered finishing Dragonfall when it didn't improve where it counted. I realise I'm not in the majority there.

While I certainly agree with you that the combat and gameplay is still lacking, you can't deny that Dragonfall ooze atmosphere and have quite a good narrative with above average cast of characters.

That's the improvement that everyone is talking about.
 

GarfunkeL

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Insert clever insult here
I don't much care about the added campaign. I would have preferred an "improved AI" goal. Cyber, magic and matrix will be improved, but AI is still stupid.
Make the AI generally more aggressive; fix npc casters; allow AI to use grenades against single foes; have AI concentrate fire to take out party members faster; allow enemy teams to take actions out of order; have them use combat stims; allow AI to use all their AP etc. etc.
It will be a free 4 hour dlc with bloated skill checks and tanky enemies.
Hey drek-head, if you could be bothered to pull your head out of your ass, you would already know the following:

1. HBS has consistently estimated gametime extremely conservatively. So when they say that the mini-campaign is 4-5 hours, it's quite possibly double that in reality. Unless you skip all text and dialogue and bumrush from scene to scene.

2. You would know that Director's Cut already improved the AI in some aspects:
-2a Due to added flanking mechanism, it is more important for enemy to seek cover than to be aggressive, otherwise they would be suicidal.
-2b What's wrong with npc casters? They attack, they buff, they heal.
-2c AI shouldn't waste grenades on individual foes, there is pretty much always a better action to be taken. You did know that they don't have unlimited inventories?
-2d AI concentrating fire on a single party member would very easily lead into a situation where a weak team member is always killed on turn 1/2 OR into a cheap exploit where you place your tanky character nearest to enemy so they always target that. Personally I find it much better that enemies attack the Runner who is most dangerous to them.
-2e Disrupting order of actions would be awfully blatant cheating if you don't allow it for player, plus it's completely against the P&P rules. Delaying actions should be included but that's it.
-2f That's one where I agree. They really should pop drugs.
-2g Enemies DO use all their AP. The problem is that, except for bosses, they only perform 1 attack in a turn and use the second action for moving, though spellcasters occasionally cast a second spell. Considering how fluid most battles are, due to fairly small sizes, I don't think that limiting them to just one attack is actually a bad thing - though the AI should be coded to evaluate whether it would be better to attack a second time or to move.

Hope this helps on your path to enlightenment, chummer!
 
Last edited:
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Another day's funding has finished, and it's back up from the day before's drop: $19,099

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/webeharebrained/shadowrun-hong-kong/#chart-daily

For those who can't be fucked taking a look at kicktraq and/or others, here's how the funding has progressed day by day so far:

Day 01: $267,945
Day 02: $134,007
Day 03: $65,359
Day 04: $34,093
Day 05: $23,049
Day 06: $18,734
Day 07: $18,344
Day 08: $18,841
Day 09: $17,517
Day 10: $27,145
Day 11: $26,747
Day 12: $20,514
Day 13: $13,981
Day 14: $19,099
 

krist2

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Codex 2013 Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
It has now reached 700K
Revamped Matrix: Art and Gameplay!
...
More is just added fan fiction tier stuff and bullshit nobody interested in.
This is worse in games and movies because you can tell a story in 10 minutes what takes 5 to 10 hours to read, even for fast readers.
...
tell that to peter jackson :lol:

Someone already did: https://tolkieneditor.wordpress.com/

(Remember kids: Torrenting is wrong and you shouldn't do it).

4 hours? A decent editor should be able to get it down to 2.5.

yeah, but not before this fall when the extended BluRay of Battle of five armies comes.
Keep your eyes on this place:
fanedit.org. They have really good versions of An unexpected journey and Desolation of Smaug. Removed 1h40min from those 2 films put together :).
 

Darth Roxor

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there will also be places in the story where you’ll travel through distinct areas of cyberspace to “sculpted systems”

yyyyyyyyeeeeessssssssssss

i demand a system based on the Knight-Kings of Wossnamia!
 

Sykar

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Turn right after Alpha Centauri
I don't know, the lack of combat options and builds is still prevalent, the small areas with little branching, still no way of fully customising party members. Still feels like 'complete mission, click here to begin next mission'

To be honest I put more hours into the first one because I couldn't be bothered finishing Dragonfall when it didn't improve where it counted. I realise I'm not in the majority there.

Name me a cRPG with much "deeper" combat from last year please.
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

Kamelåså!
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Probably conna copypasta the weaboo sculpt of the Renraku Arcology seeing as we get a Red Samurai team member.
 

roshan

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Messages
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I don't know, the lack of combat options and builds is still prevalent, the small areas with little branching, still no way of fully customising party members. Still feels like 'complete mission, click here to begin next mission'

To be honest I put more hours into the first one because I couldn't be bothered finishing Dragonfall when it didn't improve where it counted. I realise I'm not in the majority there.

Name me a cRPG with much "deeper" combat from last year please.

Banner Saga. Not that Dragonfall's was bad, it was actually well done and miles ahead of, for example, Fallout 1/2.
 

Darth Roxor

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That they have some (graphical) theme associated to them and not just TRON grids.

Like the system would be wapanese themed, where the entire grid would look like a japanese palace, the ICs would be patrolling samurai, info nodes would be manuscripts with calligraphy, etc.
 

SarcasticUndertones

Prospernaut
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Messages
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I don't know, the lack of combat options and builds is still prevalent,

Really?

I have to admit, that's not a complaint that's ever crossed my mind about this game.. and from my point of view, quite the opposite actually.

I found the combat very satisfying and each class plays very differently and they combine well also, with obvious exceptions.

Different horses I suppose.
 

SarcasticUndertones

Prospernaut
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Messages
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That they have some (graphical) theme associated to them and not just TRON grids.

Like the system would be wapanese themed, where the entire grid would look like a japanese palace, the ICs would be patrolling samurai, info nodes would be manuscripts with calligraphy, etc.

That's an interesting idea, but it would be a crazy amount of extra work, 'inner' and outer tilesets... It is however an excellent suggestion for where that extra $300,000 should go, instead of on a very small secondary module (can't call it a campaign at that duration).
 
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
That they have some (graphical) theme associated to them and not just TRON grids.

Like the system would be wapanese themed, where the entire grid would look like a japanese palace, the ICs would be patrolling samurai, info nodes would be manuscripts with calligraphy, etc.

That sounds cool!
 
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Ulminati

Kamelåså!
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It was a running theme in SR2 and SR3. Smaller setups would use the usual "tron" setup. But bigger systems would be "scuplted" to look like whatever the coroprate culture was like the place they were employed. A Sculpted system would give a bonus on all matrix skills to people who were used to working it corresponding to the rating of the sculpt, while giving a similar penalty to people who weren't familiar with it (IE: deckers trying to break in). If there's a corp who's going to be the antagonist on 2-3 runs, it may be worthwhile to give them a unique matrix sculpt. Especially if it's one of the triple-A megacorps that would also make an appearance in their next campaign. (Again, my jewgoldz are on it being Renraku).
 

veevoir

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
That they have some (graphical) theme associated to them and not just TRON grids.

Like the system would be wapanese themed, where the entire grid would look like a japanese palace, the ICs would be patrolling samurai, info nodes would be manuscripts with calligraphy, etc.

I really hope that matrix deception/spoofing comes along with that, eg. getting software that allows you to look like locals (for obvious reasons).

And of course - not knowing what is IC and what is files without legwork/recon/skills. That's how it worked in SR2/3 - it was often the case that things that looked like files in sculpted systems would eat you, mimic style.
 

Sheepherder

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Feb 4, 2014
Messages
657
I don't much care about the added campaign. I would have preferred an "improved AI" goal. Cyber, magic and matrix will be improved, but AI is still stupid.
Make the AI generally more aggressive; fix npc casters; allow AI to use grenades against single foes; have AI concentrate fire to take out party members faster; allow enemy teams to take actions out of order; have them use combat stims; allow AI to use all their AP etc. etc.
It will be a free 4 hour dlc with bloated skill checks and tanky enemies.
Hey drek-head, if you could be bothered to pull your head out of your ass, you would already know the following:

1. HBS has consistently estimated gametime extremely conservatively. So when they say that the mini-campaign is 4-5 hours, it's quite possibly double that in reality. Unless you skip all text and dialogue and bumrush from scene to scene.

2. You would know that Director's Cut already improved the AI in some aspects:
-2a Due to added flanking mechanism, it is more important for enemy to seek cover than to be aggressive, otherwise they would be suicidal.
-2b What's wrong with npc casters? They attack, they buff, they heal.
-2c AI shouldn't waste grenades on individual foes, there is pretty much always a better action to be taken. You did know that they don't have unlimited inventories?
-2d AI concentrating fire on a single party member would very easily lead into a situation where a weak team member is always killed on turn 1/2 OR into a cheap exploit where you place your tanky character nearest to enemy so they always target that. Personally I find it much better that enemies attack the Runner who is most dangerous to them.
-2e Disrupting order of actions would be awfully blatant cheating if you don't allow it for player, plus it's completely against the P&P rules. Delaying actions should be included but that's it.
-2f That's one where I agree. They really should pop drugs.
-2g Enemies DO use all their AP. The problem is that, except for bosses, they only perform 1 attack in a turn and use the second action for moving, though spellcasters occasionally cast a second spell. Considering how fluid most battles are, due to fairly small sizes, I don't think that limiting them to just one attack is actually a bad thing - though the AI should be coded to evaluate whether it would be better to attack a second time or to move.

Hope this helps on your path to enlightenment, chummer!

HBS gametime is good.

-2a aggressive doesn't mean bumrushing out of cover to take potshots with a pistol. Advancing on player positions, working as a team, making more use of weapon specific abilities (I've never seen an enemy use the SMG one which removes cover) etc.
-2b [Turn 1.] Caster casts Aim on himself. Takes cover. [Turn 2.] Depending on caster type either offensive spell or heal/buff. Repositions. [Turn 3.] Caster casts Aim on ally. Repositions. [Turn 4.] Aim has run out. Caster casts aim on himself. Repositions.
Now repeat. If a shaman, summons a spirit on turn one. Sometimes they cast armour reduction spells. Also, casters don't use totems. I don't think they cast blind, confusion, wall type spells and many buffs and debufs. They'd be extra deadly with -ap spells. Mages aren't "broken" broken, but they aren't a threat they could be.
-2c A grenade used against a single opponent who is in heavy cover is more effective then plinking at him with a pistol. AI prefers not to shoot enemies in cover so they waste ap repositioning and eventually expose themself. An -ap grenade used to stun a single enemy in cover would also be effective. Also, AI actors don't have to manage resources throughout the whole run, they will only be able to use grenades this one fight, so why not chug them all out.
-2d I agree. it would be frustrating for some players. But when you are playing Shadowrun, who do you go after first? Squishy mages? Shamans who control a spirit? Riggers with bots? Or the buff orc gunner with 50+ HP? And if you are targeting an Orc do you do it every second turn, while shooting another orc with +50 HP instead of concentrating on taking down the first one?
-2e I phrased it wrong. Right now an AI actor must deplete their ap before another one acts. So, AI gunner dude shoots, AI gunner dude_2 shoots, AI mage buffs someone, AI melee attacks.
How I do it: use Dietrich to cast aim on Glory and Blitz. Blitz uses Mark target on an enemy in cover. Glory uses Adrenaline, hits enemy out of cover. Blitz uses his ap to Aimed Shot on exposed dude and scores two crits.
-2g Yes that is the case. A more elaborate AI, which could decide whether to attack twice is needed.
 

Ellef

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I don't know, the lack of combat options and builds is still prevalent,

Really?

I have to admit, that's not a complaint that's ever crossed my mind about this game.. and from my point of view, quite the opposite actually.

I found the combat very satisfying and each class plays very differently and they combine well also, with obvious exceptions.

Different horses I suppose.

I'm not very good at explaining what about the combat that didn't always click for me. The OPs post in this thread is actually a good summary of what I like and dislike about the previous games.
The fact that this game is not going to be on a tablet is a big plus for me, hopefully we see some bigger maps and more density.
 

SarcasticUndertones

Prospernaut
Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Messages
472
I don't much care about the added campaign. I would have preferred an "improved AI" goal. Cyber, magic and matrix will be improved, but AI is still stupid.
Make the AI generally more aggressive; fix npc casters; allow AI to use grenades against single foes; have AI concentrate fire to take out party members faster; allow enemy teams to take actions out of order; have them use combat stims; allow AI to use all their AP etc. etc.
It will be a free 4 hour dlc with bloated skill checks and tanky enemies.
Hey drek-head, if you could be bothered to pull your head out of your ass, you would already know the following:

1. HBS has consistently estimated gametime extremely conservatively. So when they say that the mini-campaign is 4-5 hours, it's quite possibly double that in reality. Unless you skip all text and dialogue and bumrush from scene to scene.

2. You would know that Director's Cut already improved the AI in some aspects:
-2a Due to added flanking mechanism, it is more important for enemy to seek cover than to be aggressive, otherwise they would be suicidal.
-2b What's wrong with npc casters? They attack, they buff, they heal.
-2c AI shouldn't waste grenades on individual foes, there is pretty much always a better action to be taken. You did know that they don't have unlimited inventories?
-2d AI concentrating fire on a single party member would very easily lead into a situation where a weak team member is always killed on turn 1/2 OR into a cheap exploit where you place your tanky character nearest to enemy so they always target that. Personally I find it much better that enemies attack the Runner who is most dangerous to them.
-2e Disrupting order of actions would be awfully blatant cheating if you don't allow it for player, plus it's completely against the P&P rules. Delaying actions should be included but that's it.
-2f That's one where I agree. They really should pop drugs.
-2g Enemies DO use all their AP. The problem is that, except for bosses, they only perform 1 attack in a turn and use the second action for moving, though spellcasters occasionally cast a second spell. Considering how fluid most battles are, due to fairly small sizes, I don't think that limiting them to just one attack is actually a bad thing - though the AI should be coded to evaluate whether it would be better to attack a second time or to move.

Hope this helps on your path to enlightenment, chummer!


Hey drek-head, if you could be bothered to pull your head out of your ass, you would already know the following:

We can only go on the duration THEY tell us... and YOU have no more inside info than we have. So spouting shite like "It'll probably be bigger".. is pie in the sky and more damaging to any conversation than anything else that's been said because you advocate ignoring what THEY have said in favour of made up rubbish that's in your head. So when we agree with you and are disappointed who do we blame?

..and because you don't realise the above, you are probably the least qualified to comment.

:)


I'm not very good at explaining what about the combat that didn't always click for me. The OPs post in this thread is actually a good summary of what I like and dislike about the previous games.
The fact that this game is not going to be on a tablet is a big plus for me, hopefully we see some bigger maps and more density.

Fair enough, sometimes things just don't gel for us.

Agreed about the evolution away from tablet, that can only be a good thing, although I'd be a tad pissed if I had played them on tablet so far.
 
Last edited:

krist2

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Messages
164
Codex 2013 Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
HBS said:
Man, that's a lotta comments to read through!

>>>beyond the 1 million mark...
Numbers go higher than a million? Yikes! Let’s take it a moment at a time, omae. :)

>>>Minor slots for cyberware
Neat idea! And like all the good ideas we get, all require time. Time management is one of the single most important skills a game developer can... develop. So while it’s unlikely (our current plans are already very time consuming) we’ll see.

>>>gun ammo management
Not this time around.

>>>community translation
Love that idea but the truth

>>>how foci work
We’ll detail that in a future update during production.

>>>audio commentary
We intend to integrate it into the game.

Mitch
 

SarcasticUndertones

Prospernaut
Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Messages
472
>>>audio commentary
We intend to integrate it into the game.

Mitch

That just strikes me as an absolutely pointless time sink... we're concerned about what they can pull off in 6 months and they're wasting their time doing stuff like this?

Is it just me?.. am I the one who's out of step on this?.. am I the only one who doesn't give a fig about hearing their voices explaining their thought processes as I'm trying to play a game?

By all means have an audio presentation.. but wasting time trying to shoehorn it into the engine when there is so much else that could be done?
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Audio commentary in games can be very interesting.

I imagine it's likely that it will be a post-release thing, since they have to, you know, finish developing the game before they can comment on its development.
 

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